Giving the Cardinals the best Chance to win the Super bowl within the next 3 years

[Duckjake]

The more Kolb played in Philly the worse he got.

The more he played in Arizona the worse he got.

That's what concerns me.

Another concern:

Vick got the starting job when Kolb got hurt but Kolb didn't get it back when he got well. Kolb got the job again when Vick got hurt but Vick got it back when he got well.

Final concern: After an entire season in Arizona nobody can tell me what it is that Kolb does on the field that makes them so positive he'll be a success.

Face it. We're going into 2012 with no real QB.

 

[Phrazbit]

And Trent Dilfer has more SB rings than Dan Marino. Your arguement is ridiculous.

Did Trent win his superbowl after replacing Marino? Because if that was the case then you'd have a point. Kolb's teams are having vastly more success without him than with him.

 

[Stout]

you're more than welcome to elaborate then instead of being even more vague and condescending in your response

Well, it was self-evident that it was a biased and a Kolb-homer response. But you asked, so I took a second glance at this:

Skelton was just the lucky guy taking the snaps when the defense became awesome. I am concerned about Kolb's durability. But he's still the better QB

and laughed. Because you simply ignored anything positive that Skelton did and simply ignored all the negatives that Kolb showed. Pretty erroneous logic.

Oh, and your numbers on comparisons of QB rating are fatally flawed as well. One outlier completely skewed the comparison. Why don't you compare the numbers game-to-game instead of averaging them, thus allowing an outlier to erroneously tinge your argument in a positive light?

 

[Duckjake]

Well, it was self-evident that it was a biased and a Kolb-homer response. But you asked, so I took a second glance at this: and laughed. Because you simply ignored anything positive that Skelton did and simply ignored all the negatives that Kolb showed. Pretty erroneous logic.

Oh, and your numbers on comparisons of QB rating are fatally flawed as well. One outlier completely skewed the comparison. Why don't you compare the numbers game-to-game instead of averaging them, thus allowing an outlier to erroneously tinge your argument in a positive light?

Like the 11 play 87 yard TD drive vs the Browns after the D let Cleveland get out to a 17-7 lead including a 71 yard TD pass. Or the 9 play 61 yard drive vs the Bengals after the D let Cincy get up 23-0. Or the 13 play 71 yard drive for the winning FG in OT vs Seattle after the D let the Seahawks tie the game on a 61 yard TD pass.

Skelator should consider himself lucky the defense gave him those short fields in those games.

 

[52brandon]

Well, it was self-evident that it was a biased and a Kolb-homer response. But you asked, so I took a second glance at this: and laughed. Because you simply ignored anything positive that Skelton did and simply ignored all the negatives that Kolb showed. Pretty erroneous logic.

Oh, and your numbers on comparisons of QB rating are fatally flawed as well. One outlier completely skewed the comparison. Why don't you compare the numbers game-to-game instead of averaging them, thus allowing an outlier to erroneously tinge your argument in a positive light?

lol, say what you want. But Skelton got the Tebow treatment. If Kolb was QB in those games, I bet the outcome would be the same. And I'm not a Kolb lover or Skelton hater. I haven't seen anything from Skelton to say he will be a success or anything from Kolb to say he will be a failure. Well, I do have doubts about Kolb's durability. And I'm not a Kolb homer, I'm a Cardinals homer, I want the best QB we have taking the snap

as for comparing game to game instead of average, go ahead and break it down if you like. I posted bests, worsts, and averages, was good enough for me. I could go game to game, drive to drive, play to play, but someone will always say something

By the way, you've still never contributed anything to your argument, instead just more condescending BS about how my post wasn't good enough. I'm not gonna keep debating with you when you're just talking ****

 

[Stout]

Like the 11 play 87 yard TD drive vs the Browns after the D let Cleveland get out to a 17-7 lead including a 71 yard TD pass. Or the 9 play 61 yard drive vs the Bengals after the D let Cincy get up 23-0. Or the 13 play 71 yard drive for the winning FG in OT vs Seattle after the D let the Seahawks tie the game on a 61 yard TD pass.

Skelator should consider himself lucky the defense gave him those short fields in those games.

Duck, you saved me a bit of time. I figured this 52 character would just try to brush me off, and he of course did so. Thanks for saving me the time of looking some actual facts up.

lol, say what you want. But Skelton got the Tebow treatment. If Kolb was QB in those games, I bet the outcome would be the same. And I'm not a Kolb lover or Skelton hater. I haven't seen anything from Skelton to say he will be a success or anything from Kolb to say he will be a failure. Well, I do have doubts about Kolb's durability. And I'm not a Kolb homer, I'm a Cardinals homer, I want the best QB we have taking the snap

as for comparing game to game instead of average, go ahead and break it down if you like. I posted bests, worsts, and averages, was good enough for me. I could go game to game, drive to drive, play to play, but someone will always say something

By the way, you've still never contributed anything to your argument, instead just more condescending BS about how my post wasn't good enough. I'm not gonna keep debating with you when you're just talking ****

I haven't HAD to contribute to my argument, as I was merely pointing out how poor your argument was. Your argument is a simple brushoff of the numerous positives that Skelton has shown this season, and that Duck has highlighted a few of. I just found the statement that Skelton did nothing and only won when the defense played well to be a ridiculous assertion, because that's just what it IS. Explain the way that Skelton took the team on his shoulders in the Cleveland game when the defense took an absolute crap on the field, could you? Your claim is that Skelton ONLY won because of his defense. That claim is false. You are whining for proof. I would have looked a few things up after your 'frustrated' post, but Duck beat me to the punch. You now have proof that your position is incorrect. Can you admit that you were lazy in your sweeping statement? Or will you get in a huff and refuse to see reason?

 

[splitsecond]

And Trent Dilfer has more SB rings than Dan Marino. Your arguement is ridiculous.

Really? Comparing Kolb to Marino? Come on...

 

[52brandon]

I haven't HAD to contribute to my argument, as I was merely pointing out how poor your argument was. Your argument is a simple brushoff of the numerous positives that Skelton has shown this season, and that Duck has highlighted a few of. I just found the statement that Skelton did nothing and only won when the defense played well to be a ridiculous assertion, because that's just what it IS. Explain the way that Skelton took the team on his shoulders in the Cleveland game when the defense took an absolute crap on the field, could you? Your claim is that Skelton ONLY won because of his defense. That claim is false. You are whining for proof. I would have looked a few things up after your 'frustrated' post, but Duck beat me to the punch. You now have proof that your position is incorrect. Can you admit that you were lazy in your sweeping statement? Or will you get in a huff and refuse to see reason?

lol, dude, all you've done is run your mouth. You still have provided nothing, it took duckjake to do it for you. Yeah, I'm sure you were just about to do your research (in my first post of this thread, I stated that dealing Kolb was a good idea and then you call me a Kolb-homer. After proper research I'm sure)

I guess I should have seen it coming though, lol

Careful, there are people on this board who will lambaste you for saying Kolb is better

as for the actual debate. A closer look at the games...

Cleveland: Skelton had a great drive, cant argue that. But the D caused the clutch fumble at the Cleveland 5 that led to the fieldgoal that took the game to overtime for us to win

Cincy: First CIN score came off a Skelton pick that the D held to a FG. Second score (TD) came off a sweet -4 yard drive (3 and out) that gave CIN the ball at midfield. Third score (TD), yup, came from a Skelton pick. Fourth score (FG) came off another 3 and out totaling 1 yard that gave CIN the ball at midfield. All before halftime. But at least Skelton had a good 4th quarter

Seattle: Great scoring drive for the cards in the 1st. And another great scoring drive in the 3rd. Cards up 20-10 into the 4th and we get picked and give SEA the ball in the red zone which the D held up and forced a FG. 3 and out, gives SEA the ball right back to score a TD and force OT. But another great drive in OT got us the W

SEA game was a great showing by Skelton. But yes, I stand by my statement that neither would have been won without the D's improvement. Similarly to the Cowboys game when Kolb was taking the snaps. Hell, the only game I can say was won on the back of our QB this year was Philly, and the QB was in street clothes (which brings to mind the Patriots garbage D suddenly rocking Denver after a DEN coach moved to NE that week)

 

[Phrazbit]

lol, dude, all you've done is run your mouth. You still have provided nothing, it took duckjake to do it for you. Yeah, I'm sure you were just about to do your research (in my first post of this thread, I stated that dealing Kolb was a good idea and then you call me a Kolb-homer. After proper research I'm sure)

I guess I should have seen it coming though, lol


as for the actual debate. A closer look at the games...

Cleveland: Skelton had a great drive, cant argue that. But the D caused the clutch fumble at the Cleveland 5 that led to the fieldgoal that took the game to overtime for us to win

Cincy: First CIN score came off a Skelton pick that the D held to a FG. Second score (TD) came off a sweet -4 yard drive (3 and out) that gave CIN the ball at midfield. Third score (TD), yup, came from a Skelton pick. Fourth score (FG) came off another 3 and out totaling 1 yard that gave CIN the ball at midfield. All before halftime. But at least Skelton had a good 4th quarter

Seattle: Great scoring drive for the cards in the 1st. And another great scoring drive in the 3rd. Cards up 20-10 into the 4th and we get picked and give SEA the ball in the red zone which the D held up and forced a FG. 3 and out, gives SEA the ball right back to score a TD and force OT. But another great drive in OT got us the W

SEA game was a great showing by Skelton. But yes, I stand by my statement that neither would have been won without the D's improvement. Similarly to the Cowboys game when Kolb was taking the snaps. Hell, the only game I can say was won on the back of our QB this year was Philly, and the QB was in street clothes (which brings to mind the Patriots garbage D suddenly rocking Denver after a DEN coach moved to NE that week)

The idea that Kolb was identifying the Philly defense, relaying it to the coordinator, who in turn relayed it to Skelton who then made line adjustments to the play, all in the seconds between the defense setting up and the snap... is rather comical.

And Denver's offense got rocked by several defenses. Tebow's QB option read is now being tipped away by a coach who ran a system NOTHING like it when he was there? The Patriots obliterated the Broncos in Denver weeks earlier and before Joshy McSpy switched staffs.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Really? Comparing Kolb to Marino? Come on...

Are you really that dense?? No where did I do that. Some of you people need to take some time away from posting here and open a book from time to time...

 

[cardsfanmd]

Did Trent win his superbowl after replacing Marino? Because if that was the case then you'd have a point. Kolb's teams are having vastly more success without him than with him.

BAHAHAHAAHAH Nice try. Please go back to swinging off Skelton's undercarraige like Tarzan navigating his way threw the jungle via loose vines. Your blind support for him has just become funny.

 

[Stout]

lol, dude, all you've done is run your mouth. You still have provided nothing, it took duckjake to do it for you. Yeah, I'm sure you were just about to do your research (in my first post of this thread, I stated that dealing Kolb was a good idea and then you call me a Kolb-homer. After proper research I'm sure)

I guess I should have seen it coming though, lol


as for the actual debate. A closer look at the games...

Cleveland: Skelton had a great drive, cant argue that. But the D caused the clutch fumble at the Cleveland 5 that led to the fieldgoal that took the game to overtime for us to win

Cincy: First CIN score came off a Skelton pick that the D held to a FG. Second score (TD) came off a sweet -4 yard drive (3 and out) that gave CIN the ball at midfield. Third score (TD), yup, came from a Skelton pick. Fourth score (FG) came off another 3 and out totaling 1 yard that gave CIN the ball at midfield. All before halftime. But at least Skelton had a good 4th quarter

Seattle: Great scoring drive for the cards in the 1st. And another great scoring drive in the 3rd. Cards up 20-10 into the 4th and we get picked and give SEA the ball in the red zone which the D held up and forced a FG. 3 and out, gives SEA the ball right back to score a TD and force OT. But another great drive in OT got us the W

SEA game was a great showing by Skelton. But yes, I stand by my statement that neither would have been won without the D's improvement. Similarly to the Cowboys game when Kolb was taking the snaps. Hell, the only game I can say was won on the back of our QB this year was Philly, and the QB was in street clothes (which brings to mind the Patriots garbage D suddenly rocking Denver after a DEN coach moved to NE that week)

Yep, you responded much as I thought you would. At least you tried to make your point. As to your doubts of my research ability or willingness to do so? Well, we all can't sit on the internet all day, can we? Nice try at deflection, though. Now, let me poke a hole in your post here.

I see that you've used a small sample size in an attempt to prove your point, but your own sample size disproves it. You only used part of the story on the Cleveland game, I'm afraid. You emphasize that the defense caused the fumble that led to the game-tying field goal, and you are correct. What you failed to mention was that the defense was so awful early on, and Skelton had to dig the team out of a large deficit to begin with. It was a heck of a comeback, and it was most certainly NOT the defense that won that game. The D eventually contributed, but did far more harm than good early in that game.

Okay, yes, you didn't like the fact that I laughed at your post early on, and you've clearly taken an attitude to that. I'm sorry, but you painted away Skelton's contributions on the season with broad and sweeping brush strokes. You certainly don't like him as a QB. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that opinion, as we are all entitled to them. To simply say that Skelton made no contributions to our victories is a ludicrous claim, however. And that was what you said. Don't blame me for laughing at a silly post. I've made them before, and I'll do it again.

 

[Duckjake]

Yep, you responded much as I thought you would. At least you tried to make your point. As to your doubts of my research ability or willingness to do so? Well, we all can't sit on the internet all day, can we? Nice try at deflection, though. Now, let me poke a hole in your post here.

I see that you've used a small sample size in an attempt to prove your point, but your own sample size disproves it. You only used part of the story on the Cleveland game, I'm afraid. You emphasize that the defense caused the fumble that led to the game-tying field goal, and you are correct. What you failed to mention was that the defense was so awful early on, and Skelton had to dig the team out of a large deficit to begin with. It was a heck of a comeback, and it was most certainly NOT the defense that won that game. The D eventually contributed, but did far more harm than good early in that game.

Okay, yes, you didn't like the fact that I laughed at your post early on, and you've clearly taken an attitude to that. I'm sorry, but you painted away Skelton's contributions on the season with broad and sweeping brush strokes. You certainly don't like him as a QB. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that opinion, as we are all entitled to them. To simply say that Skelton made no contributions to our victories is a ludicrous claim, however. And that was what you said. Don't blame me for laughing at a silly post. I've made them before, and I'll do it again.

I agree Stout just because a QB puts the team in a hole doesn't take away from having the ability to make plays to get them back out of it. Skelator had a good game 2 against the 49ers as well leading the Cards to TDs on the next possessions after both his interceptions.

We can find plenty of negative things about all our QBs. Just look at Kolb vs the Vikings after 10 weeks of practice. Starts the game 3 and out. Next drive 3 and out. Next drive interception. Next drive he fumbles. Next drive 3 and out. Against a Vikings team that finished 31st in points allowed in 2011.

Look what happened to Bartel when he was sent in to replace Kolb in that game. 2 for 6 with an interception.

We have a lot of things to be excited about for 2012 but for me QB is not one of them.

 

[Stout]

I agree Stout just because a QB puts the team in a hole doesn't take away from having the ability to make plays to get them back out of it. Skelator had a good game 2 against the 49ers as well leading the Cards to TDs on the next possessions after both his interceptions.

We can find plenty of negative things about all our QBs. Just look at Kolb vs the Vikings after 10 weeks of practice. Starts the game 3 and out. Next drive 3 and out. Next drive interception. Next drive he fumbles. Next drive 3 and out. Against a Vikings team that finished 31st in points allowed in 2011.

Look what happened to Bartel when he was sent in to replace Kolb in that game. 2 for 6 with an interception.

We have a lot of things to be excited about for 2012 but for me QB is not one of them.

I do think Skelton can develop, but I don't think they'll give him the opportunity to do so properly.

 

[52brandon]

Yep, you responded much as I thought you would. At least you tried to make your point. As to your doubts of my research ability or willingness to do so? Well, we all can't sit on the internet all day, can we? Nice try at deflection, though. Now, let me poke a hole in your post here.

I see that you've used a small sample size in an attempt to prove your point, but your own sample size disproves it. You only used part of the story on the Cleveland game, I'm afraid. You emphasize that the defense caused the fumble that led to the game-tying field goal, and you are correct. What you failed to mention was that the defense was so awful early on, and Skelton had to dig the team out of a large deficit to begin with. It was a heck of a comeback, and it was most certainly NOT the defense that won that game. The D eventually contributed, but did far more harm than good early in that game.

Okay, yes, you didn't like the fact that I laughed at your post early on, and you've clearly taken an attitude to that. I'm sorry, but you painted away Skelton's contributions on the season with broad and sweeping brush strokes. You certainly don't like him as a QB. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that opinion, as we are all entitled to them. To simply say that Skelton made no contributions to our victories is a ludicrous claim, however. And that was what you said. Don't blame me for laughing at a silly post. I've made them before, and I'll do it again.

lol, you expected me to reply politely to your post that was only you talking ****? After this post, you took my initial post wrong then. I didn't mean for it to come across like Skelton didn't contribute at all. It was in response to the first reply talking about Skelton's record as a starter. It's deceiving. I don't think the outcome of the majority of the games would have been different with Kolb. Then I was asked for numbers to back it up, thus the best, worst and average numbers. The CIN game realistically is irrelevant to the original point, because it was about wins. And I left out how LSH shouldered most of the load in SEA.

I completely agree with Duckjake about being excited for 2012, but the QB situation is nothing to be excited about. I do think Kolb is better, but not by much. Definitely not by the salary margin. I still would have traded DRC for him just to find out. But the contract extension looks like a big mistake...

 

[Stout]

lol, you expected me to reply politely to your post that was only you talking ****? After this post, you took my initial post wrong then. I didn't mean for it to come across like Skelton didn't contribute at all. It was in response to the first reply talking about Skelton's record as a starter. It's deceiving. I don't think the outcome of the majority of the games would have been different with Kolb. Then I was asked for numbers to back it up, thus the best, worst and average numbers. The CIN game realistically is irrelevant to the original point, because it was about wins. And I left out how LSH shouldered most of the load in SEA.

I completely agree with Duckjake about being excited for 2012, but the QB situation is nothing to be excited about. I do think Kolb is better, but not by much. Definitely not by the salary margin. I still would have traded DRC for him just to find out. But the contract extension looks like a big mistake...

This is quite a reasonable post. I'll let you in on a little advice about posting that I've learned here over the years. If you make specific, sweeping posts that don't clearly say what you mean, you will get the kind of responses I gave. Go back and read what you posted initially, and you'll see how you in no way said what you said in this post. It came across as ignorant, and that's how I took it. If I think a post is ignorant, I will unashamedly mock it. Now you've refined your opinion here, and I understand and accept it (not that you need approval to hold an opinion). If you don't want people to mistake you, don't post in broad, sweeping assertions; be specific.

 

[52brandon]

This is quite a reasonable post. I'll let you in on a little advice about posting that I've learned here over the years. If you make specific, sweeping posts that don't clearly say what you mean, you will get the kind of responses I gave. Go back and read what you posted initially, and you'll see how you in no way said what you said in this post. It came across as ignorant, and that's how I took it. If I think a post is ignorant, I will unashamedly mock it. Now you've refined your opinion here, and I understand and accept it (not that you need approval to hold an opinion). If you don't want people to mistake you, don't post in broad, sweeping assertions; be specific.

this was my initial post:

that actually makes insanely good sense. I'd also like Manningham as a FA. And I would say that Kolb has more potential than Skelton, but Skelton isn't anywhere near that expensive

everything after was in response to the replies I got by the Skelton fan-club (quoting their starting records, which as I said, are deceiving. Asking me for numbers to back up what I said)

 

[Phrazbit]

BAHAHAHAAHAH Nice try. Please go back to swinging off Skelton's undercarraige like Tarzan navigating his way threw the jungle via loose vines. Your blind support for him has just become funny.

No, Ive actually said they dont have a decent QB on their roster, but you dont seem to be big on details... like reality. So I cant blame you for being mistaken.

And talk about hypocrisy... how is ANY support for Kevin not blind?

And that is a GREAT counterpoint after your analogy was torn apart.

 

[juza76]

cardsfanmd+52brandon
seeking new users to jump in the kevin kolb bandwagon...they wanna do this togheter.as a team..i hope

 

[Stout]

this was my initial post:


everything after was in response to the replies I got by the Skelton fan-club (quoting their starting records, which as I said, are deceiving. Asking me for numbers to back up what I said)

I was just going off of the post that I noticed and responded to. Nothing in the thread really stood out until that one:

Skelton was just the lucky guy taking the snaps when the defense became awesome. I am concerned about Kolb's durability. But he's still the better QB

That is clearly an inaccurate and not at all the truth. You have since revised and given an opinion that makes more sense, which I've pretty much agreed with. The above quoted, which stuck out like a sore thumb when I visited this thread, was definitely ill-advised.

 

[Duckjake]

BAHAHAHAAHAH Nice try. Please go back to swinging off Skelton's undercarraige like Tarzan navigating his way threw the jungle via loose vines. Your blind support for him has just become funny.

And your blind support for Kolb is just as funny.

We've seen first hand what a top tier NFL QB looks like on the field and none of our guys look anything like it. It just sucks that the Cards have used the #10 pick in the 2006 draft. A fifth round pick in the 2010 draft, a starting CB and the second round pick in the 2012 draft to get what they have on the roster right now.

 

[52brandon]

cardsfanmd+52brandon
seeking new users to jump in the kevin kolb bandwagon...they wanna do this togheter.as a team..i hope

lol, that's cute

I was just going off of the post that I noticed and responded to. Nothing in the thread really stood out until that one:



That is clearly an inaccurate and not at all the truth. You have since revised and given an opinion that makes more sense, which I've pretty much agreed with. The above quoted, which stuck out like a sore thumb when I visited this thread, was definitely ill-advised.

it was just my response to the "Tebow argument" provided by juza. I intentionally left it blunt and vague like his initial response... then you took it out of context without seeing my initial post, and responded with a blunt and vague post about mine. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[52brandon]

And your blind support for Kolb is just as funny.

We've seen first hand what a top tier NFL QB looks like on the field and none of our guys look anything like it. It just sucks that the Cards have used the #10 pick in the 2006 draft. A fifth round pick in the 2010 draft, a starting CB and the second round pick in the 2012 draft to get what they have on the roster right now.

a ****ing men

to be honest, the wasted draft picks happen and can be recovered from. But the crazy high contract Kolb got before even getting a cardinals jersey was a big whoops. Maybe it was needed to re-sign fitz

 

[Stout]

lol, that's cute

it was just my response to the "Tebow argument" provided by juza. I intentionally left it blunt and vague like his initial response... then you took it out of context without seeing my initial post, and responded with a blunt and vague post about mine. Ironic, isn't it?

Meh, you left it blunt and...blunt. Nothing vague about that statement. As far as taking it out of context? That context may be your intent, but you certainly didn't make it anywhere close to clear. Sorry, but I jumped on a bad post, and you didn't like it. Your arrogant dismissal in this above post just doesn't erase that point.

 

[52brandon]

Meh, you left it blunt and...blunt. Nothing vague about that statement. As far as taking it out of context? That context may be your intent, but you certainly didn't make it anywhere close to clear. Sorry, but I jumped on a bad post, and you didn't like it. Your arrogant dismissal in this above post just doesn't erase that point.

lol, I guess I should just attack the way other people post instead? But I'm the arrogant one, right?