Goodwin as starting PG

[slinslin]

Is this a potential long term solution?

The offense has looked balanced with this lineup. Maybe Archie could play the position well enough alongside Booker.

If Archie improves his defense he might develop into a bigger version of Bledsoe.

Obviously he is not a traditional PG, but he does not need to be as long as the ball is moving well.

 

[iRobot]

Needs to practice just dribbling the **** out of the ball but yes, I like the move. He has length, could be a better defender if he practices.

He has enough of a shot that he garners respect.. he can drive the rim with relative ease..

 

[slinslin]

There are a few NBA teams that have proven that you do not need a PG to be a huge assist man.

Spurs, Lakers come to mind.

Goodwin and Booker fit well together.

 

[Catlover]

Needs to practice just dribbling the **** out of the ball but yes, I like the move. He has length, could be a better defender if he practices.

He has enough of a shot that he garners respect.. he can drive the rim with relative ease..

I disagree. Right now defenses don't appear to even consider our player tendencies. When that changes all it will take is one quick glance at a scouting report and Archie is finished. When the defense in the past realized he couldn't shoot and played him instead him for the drive, they had no trouble shutting him down. For the season, he's shooting under .300 from 3 and his true shooting percentage is under .500 (and both are career bests). He's still a one trick pony, until that changes he's not a viable option as the starting point guard IMO.

What are any of you seeing that has you talking up Archie so much? Starting Booker and replacing our 4 with someone that is a threat to shoot has had more to do with our slightly improved offense than Goodwin (IMO). In his 4 games as a starter this season he's upside down in the +/- category by 46 points and he's averaged just under 4 assists per game despite putting in almost 36 minutes per. And all that said, I still feel he's an even bigger liability on defense as a PG than he is on offense.

He's still very young. He seems like a likable person and reports have been positive about his relationship with coaches and players. He has good size and great length. He's athletic and has a very good first step. And he seems to have a willingness to defend. Those are his pluses and they should give us some hope but right now he's a long way from being even a decent backup at the point guard position IMO.

 

[WuRaider]

The crossover J on Ish, the circus layups, the fastbreak dunks.

Excited to see if he can get another 20 vs the Cavs.

 

[WuRaider]

Needs to practice just dribbling the **** out of the ball

Definitely, he still dribbles way too high but he's at least using his size to protect the ball. He's cut down on his turnovers, making better passes out of the PnR than Knight did. His outside shot still looks flat, he should only be taking wide open ones.

 

[Catlover]

The crossover J on Ish, the circus layups, the fastbreak dunks.

Excited to see if he can get another 20 vs the Cavs.

It's a great video recap but does it make you say, wow, this guy is a great point guard? It makes me say, wow, this guy should be on the wing playing with a great point guard.

 

[sunsfan88]

The crossover J on Ish, the circus layups, the fastbreak dunks.

Excited to see if he can get another 20 vs the Cavs.

He reminds me of Westbrook from very early in Westbrook's career. Obviously an explosive athlete as well and many people thought he should not be a PG but he's obviously come a long way since and is now a top player in the league. People are quick to forget that Goodiwn is still incredibly young and that he has played very, very, very little minutes so far in the NBA. He's still learning the game because of such little experience. Once the game slows down for him, I think we'll have a better idea of where he's at.

Westbrook is a pretty horrible 3pt shooter too but he has developed his mid range jumper very well and that's what Goodwin should now work on. Improve the mid range jumper as well as his court vision, and I think he should be fine.

I remember they showed the drills that Curry does during the off season to improve his ball handling and to learn to dribble without looking at the ground, I think it would be beneficial for the Suns to put Goodwin through those drills as well. Actually, our $70 million PG Knight can probably benefit from those drills too since Knight more often than not dribbles with his head down despite having played so many minutes in the league already.

Edit: this is what I'm talking about

http://youtu.be/FpIpQtpbn18

 

[elindholm]

It's a great video recap but does it make you say, wow, this guy is a great point guard? It makes me say, wow, this guy should be on the wing playing with a great point guard.

It makes me say, wow, I wonder what would happen if anyone tried to defend him. Sure, he's got the size and quickness to get to the rim against a team that isn't paying attention, but that doesn't impress me.

I didn't watch the Philadelphia game, but in none of the games that I've watched have I seen any PG skills from Goodwin, beyond the bare minimum. He's less of a PG than Knight, who is less of a PG than Bledsoe, who is less of a PG than Dragic, who's less of a PG than half of the PGs in the league.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Is this a potential long term solution?

The offense has looked balanced with this lineup. Maybe Archie could play the position well enough alongside Booker.

If Archie improves his defense he might develop into a bigger version of Bledsoe.

Obviously he is not a traditional PG, but he does not need to be as long as the ball is moving well.

No. You need a player that will play within the system. Can't just do his own thing. That's the problem with our other two pg's.

I could see Goodwin as a backup combo guard, running point some of the time. Thats about as close as I get.

 

[Catlover]

It makes me say, wow, I wonder what would happen if anyone tried to defend him. Sure, he's got the size and quickness to get to the rim against a team that isn't paying attention, but that doesn't impress me.

I didn't watch the Philadelphia game, but in none of the games that I've watched have I seen any PG skills from Goodwin, beyond the bare minimum. He's less of a PG than Knight, who is less of a PG than Bledsoe, who is less of a PG than Dragic, who's less of a PG than half of the PGs in the league.

Although I might quibble over the Bledsoe vs Dragic placement I'd agree with everything else here. If he gets a little stronger he might be able to help us from the wing position. His quickness advantage might make up for his lack of a consistent outside shot but at the point guard position too many of them can negate that first step. His only advantage as a PG is his ability to see and shoot over most of them but for a below average distributor and a poor shooter that's not much of an advantage.

 

[hcsilla]

All I see in Goodwin is the possibility to convert him into draft pick(s).

If keeps playing like this (which is unlikely when teams start to focus on him more, but even a lower playing level qualifies) then even for a higher one that he was.

Otherwise I don't really see the place and playing time for him in the rotation. Knight and Booker are obviously ahead of him in the rotation and he obviously needs the ball in his hands to be effective, he is not the quiet professional who does all the little things in his limited playing time.

 

[hcsilla]

And he has zero PG skills, BTW.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's a great video recap but does it make you say, wow, this guy is a great point guard? It makes me say, wow, this guy should be on the wing playing with a great point guard.

Watched this clip again. Wow, his ball handling skills are poor. He has a hard time catching and putting the ball on the floor. His first dribble is almost always a punch of a sort.

He makes Leandro Barbosa look like Curly Neal.

 

[BC867]

He makes Leandro Barbosa look like Curly Neal.

LOL.

As I whistle Sweet Georgia Brown.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not looking at Archie in regard to playing one particular position at this point in time although he can play some PG. I view him more as a utility player who brings instant energy off the bench. He can be a slasher and if he develops his shot more he can be difficult for an opponent to guard. I hope the Suns continue to be patient with him.

 

[95pro]

I'm not sure why all the negativity but put any one guard from another team into the game who has had limited minutes and see if they produce like he has. I'm not saying he's our future pg just yet but Goodwin deserves a little bit of credit here.

 

[elindholm]

I'm not sure why all the negativity but put any one guard from another team into the game who has had limited minutes and see if they produce like he has. I'm not saying he's our future pg just yet but Goodwin deserves a little bit of credit here.

Then why not consider him as the Suns' future PF as well? Or the Cardinals' future QB? He's not a point guard.

 

[slinslin]

Then why not consider him as the Suns' future PF as well? Or the Cardinals' future QB? He's not a point guard.

He has played as the PG the last games, he has not played the last games as a PF or QB.

So how exactly is he "not a PG"? Because he does not average 6 apg?

Was Derek Fisher a PG?`Why was he more of a PG than Archie?

 

[Catlover]

He has played as the PG the last games, he has not played the last games as a PF or QB.

So how exactly is he "not a PG"? Because he does not average 6 apg?

Was Derek Fisher a PG?`Why was he more of a PG than Archie?

I just now watched him wave off Booker, dribble out the possession clock and then make a pass to Devin as the shot clock expired. I know that's just one play but it's the one I watched while reading your comment. He doesn't look like a point guard out there. He's much better at creating for himself than he is in running an offense. Booker exhibits a better understanding of the offense than Archie does and is a much better facilitator. And he's not a point guard either. I still say Archie's future is on the wing.

Every now and then people compare Archie to a younger Bledsoe and maybe that's accurate. Maybe he can grow into a taller Bledsoe. But if Eric was 6'6 we wouldn't be playing him at the point, we'd be playing him on the wing where his skillset makes more sense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He has played as the PG the last games, he has not played the last games as a PF or QB.

So how exactly is he "not a PG"? Because he does not average 6 apg?

Was Derek Fisher a PG?`Why was he more of a PG than Archie?

wait a second, according to your brilliant analysis, Goodwin can't be considered a PG because he's 6'6! I mean, according to you, Byron Scott was the PG of the showtime Laker teams, right? I mean, are you really saying that Archie Goodwin in the last couple games is a PG, but Magic Johnson in his entire career WASN'T?! You can't POSSIBLY be saying that, right?

 

[slinslin]

He doesn't look like a point guard out there. He's much better at creating for himself than he is in running an offense.

Which is true for almost all PGs. There are very few that don't rely on being a threat themselves to open up the possibility of creating for others.

All I see is that out offense seems much more productive with Goodwin starting at PG.

 

[Catlover]

Which is true for almost all PGs. There are very few that don't rely on being a threat themselves to open up the possibility of creating for others.

All I see is that out offense seems much more productive with Goodwin starting at PG.

Sure but he does very little of the "creating for others." He drives and tries to score or he gives up the ball on the perimeter and lets someone else initiate the offense. I'm not married to the position labels so it's not a big deal to call him a point guard but when he's out there you need someone else that can function as the actual point guard.

 

[slinslin]

wait a second, according to your brilliant analysis, Goodwin can't be considered a PG because he's 6'6! I mean, according to you, Byron Scott was the PG of the showtime Laker teams, right? I mean, are you really saying that Archie Goodwin in the last couple games is a PG, but Magic Johnson in his entire career WASN'T?! You can't POSSIBLY be saying that, right?

You explain it yourself. It has nothing to do with height.

Magic defended forwards mostly and started almost always alongside two guards one was typically a small guard / point guard. So technically Magic was a small forward unless you believe that PG is defined as the one running the offense in which case we should consider Lebron a PG too, which we do not.

So in todays game Magic would be considered a forward clearly.

 

[SirStefan32]

You explain it yourself. It has nothing to do with height.

Magic defended forwards mostly and started almost always alongside two guards one was typically a small guard / point guard. So technically Magic was a small forward unless you believe that PG is defined as the one running the offense in which case we should consider Lebron a PG too, which we do not.

So in todays game Magic would be considered a forward clearly.

Oh Good Lord, here we go again!