Goodwin as starting PG

[Catlover]

What pleases me is his increased all-around energy, his free throw percentage (previous 12-14 before the Atlanta game) and he seems more focused on defence and calmer on offence.

He is calmer on offense but I don't see the "focused on defense". At least in some ways he's letting the game come to him.

 

[95pro]

Goodwin has had some good defensive moments lately.

 

[sunsfan88]

Goodwin has had some good defensive moments lately.

Indeed.

I also like Goodwin owning it and taking accountability and Booker consoling him as well. Its somewhat rare to see these type of gestures from both these players considering how young they are, great to see

https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/693128723344822273

 

[sunsfan88]

Bazemore is a very good shooter and an OK defender. Goodwin is neither of them.

Bazemore has shot above 40% from 3 once in his career and he was, much like Goodwin, a benchwarmer for his first 3 or 4 years and became relevant after coming to Atlanta.

 

[jandaman]

Some fans here hate Goodwin we get it.

But to say he has been terrible defensively is not right. Maybe last season, but this season he has been contesting shots, has been side to side and able to make shots harder for his opponents. The occasional brain fade will happen, he is 21 and defense on the suns team isnt really focused on.
And if Goodwin is terrible, then Booker must be king terrible defensively.
But no.. both are learning and will improve with a good defensive coach.


Also saying Goodwin makes an effort not to pass to Booker.. OMG. Just the strawman arguments.
Booker has been defended very closely due to his reputation as a terrific shooter. Goodwin has no problem passing the ball around actually.


It seems people here love to use Wade, Bryant as bars to compare Goodwin to... wow. 21 years old, sat down for most of his career... now getting to show his talent but gets hammered by fans who doesnt like non-Nash like play making skills and shooting.

Well get use to it, Nash is retired and there are no PGs in the horizon and on phoenix that will be close to Nash.


Just think about how young and inexperienced Goodwin, Booker, Len and Warren really are... they are promising indeed. McDonough is a good scout for talent.

 

[95pro]

Some fans here hate Goodwin we get it.

But to say he has been terrible defensively is not right. Maybe last season, but this season he has been contesting shots, has been side to side and able to make shots harder for his opponents. The occasional brain fade will happen, he is 21 and defense on the suns team isnt really focused on.
And if Goodwin is terrible, then Booker must be king terrible defensively.
But no.. both are learning and will improve with a good defensive coach.


Also saying Goodwin makes an effort not to pass to Booker.. OMG. Just the strawman arguments.
Booker has been defended very closely due to his reputation as a terrific shooter. Goodwin has no problem passing the ball around actually.


It seems people here love to use Wade, Bryant as bars to compare Goodwin to... wow. 21 years old, sat down for most of his career... now getting to show his talent but gets hammered by fans who doesnt like non-Nash like play making skills and shooting.

Well get use to it, Nash is retired and there are no PGs in the horizon and on phoenix that will be close to Nash.


Just think about how young and inexperienced Goodwin, Booker, Len and Warren really are... they are promising indeed. McDonough is a good scout for talent.

Well said

 

[Catlover]

I don't hate Goodwin at all. I still like his potential but I've yet to see anything from him that makes me believe he can be even a decent point guard. And he's always made nice defensive plays, it's what he does inside a team defense that worries me. But as has been said, he's still very young. I'm looking forward to the time when we're able to give him minutes at a position that makes more sense for him. Right now we're short at the point guard position and it's understandable why we're using him there but he's a fish out of water orchestrating a team's offense IMO.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think Curry would get bashed here for not being a true enough PG.

 

[BC867]

I think Curry would get bashed here for not being a true enough PG.

When you have a Michael or a Curry leading your team, it's a whole different ball game.

The Suns are in no position to be compared to Golden State in any way.

If Sarver ever gets around to rebuilding, it needs to have a foundation built on the basics.

 

[Hoop Head]

When you have a Michael or a Curry leading your team, it's a whole different ball game.

The Suns are in no position to be compared to Golden State in any way.

If Sarver ever gets around to rebuilding, it needs to have a foundation built on the basics.

I think they have been building based on the basics. They just pick players based on position and plug them into this awful system Jeff is running. In today's NBA you need to pick 1 or 2 players and build around them. The Suns don't have anyone worth building around but they do have some nice pieces.

Look at the top teams in the league, they are all built around superstars. The talent around Curry is perfect for his style in GS, SA has been building around Duncan for almost 2 decades, the Cavs have been building around James since he returned, OKC is built around Durant & Westbrook. The list goes on and on. Outside of the Pistons team in the early 2000's that won a title every team that has won a title has been built around a player or two. That Pistons team was built around Defense, which is the only chance of competing without a true superstar.

 

[Catlover]

I think Curry would get bashed here for not being a true enough PG.

Did you watch Goodwin tonight? Eddie pointed out that this is what happens when the opposing team actually reads the scouting report on you, you go 3 for 15.

 

[Hoop Head]

Did you watch Goodwin tonight? Eddie pointed out that this is what happens when the opposing team actually reads the scouting report on you, you go 3 for 15.

I missed the game but watched the post game and highlights. I still think Goodwin could make for a good rotation player and is capable of doing spot minutes at PG but I don't think he's the answer at starting PG or even the backup PG. He could be the first guard off of the bench with a quality backup PG like Price coming in to alleviate him once both starters are sat down. He reminds me of Barbosa quite a bit, probably more fearless driving to the rim. Archie is a combo guard with size and that's fine for a bench player. Because of injuries and the team tanking he needs to get 20+ minutes a night though because someone in the backcourt should be moved this offseason.

There aren't enough minutes between G spots for Bledsoe, Booker, Goodwin, and Knight. Bledsoe is the only player of the 4 who can play PG for 30+ minutes a night. Booker deserves no less than 20 minutes a night based on his talent and play. He's so young but already such a good player with a high BB-IQ. Knight needs to accept that he's a SG and start playing like one more or be the first guard off of the bench. I think he's overpaid for that role and should be moved. I'd hang onto Bledsoe, Booker, and Goodwin based on talent, need, and price. Keep Ronnie Price or bring in another veteran PG to be the 4th guard to play PG when the starters on the bench. Knight should be moved before he loses more value as an asset.

 

[Catlover]

I missed the game but watched the post game and highlights. I still think Goodwin could make for a good rotation player and is capable of doing spot minutes at PG but I don't think he's the answer at starting PG or even the backup PG. He could be the first guard off of the bench with a quality backup PG like Price coming in to alleviate him once both starters are sat down. He reminds me of Barbosa quite a bit, probably more fearless driving to the rim. Archie is a combo guard with size and that's fine for a bench player. Because of injuries and the team tanking he needs to get 20+ minutes a night though because someone in the backcourt should be moved this offseason.

There aren't enough minutes between G spots for Bledsoe, Booker, Goodwin, and Knight. Bledsoe is the only player of the 4 who can play PG for 30+ minutes a night. Booker deserves no less than 20 minutes a night based on his talent and play. He's so young but already such a good player with a high BB-IQ. Knight needs to accept that he's a SG and start playing like one more or be the first guard off of the bench. I think he's overpaid for that role and should be moved. I'd hang onto Bledsoe, Booker, and Goodwin based on talent, need, and price. Keep Ronnie Price or bring in another veteran PG to be the 4th guard to play PG when the starters on the bench. Knight should be moved before he loses more value as an asset.

I really don't know what to think about Knight. I can't reconcile the player we've seen with the reputation he had when we traded for him. As for Goodwin, I'm really only down on him as a point guard. I think his future is on the wing at the 2 or the 3. He needs to get stronger and he needs to be more consistent at the rim. And he desperately needs to become a better threat as a shooter, from distance and mid-range. He can make a career off of that first step with just a little improvement in those other areas. I also think he's better suited to defend against a 2 or a 3.

 

[elindholm]

I can't reconcile the player we've seen with the reputation he had when we traded for him.

His reputation was mixed, to say the least.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f7/bucks-fans-opinions-on-brandon-knight-218634.html

There was a substantial contingent of Bucks fans who knew him best who were very skeptical of him and glad to see him gone. Some on this board dismissed that evidence on the grounds that Suns fans are inherently smarter than Bucks fans, which was a pretty weird argument to make.

To me it's very clear that the Suns took a "glass half-full" approach with Knight and saw only what they wanted to see. The analysis was faulty, and would have been even if the move had turned out okay.

The saving grace is that they were to negotiate a contract extension that isn't a laughable overpayment. Within a couple of years, Knight's contract will look only a little bad, and it shouldn't be that hard to move him.

 

[Catlover]

His reputation was mixed, to say the least.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f7/bucks-fans-opinions-on-brandon-knight-218634.html

There was a substantial contingent of Bucks fans who knew him best who were very skeptical of him and glad to see him gone. Some on this board dismissed that evidence on the grounds that Suns fans are inherently smarter than Bucks fans, which was a pretty weird argument to make.

To me it's very clear that the Suns took a "glass half-full" approach with Knight and saw only what they wanted to see. The analysis was faulty, and would have been even if the move had turned out okay.

The saving grace is that they were to negotiate a contract extension that isn't a laughable overpayment. Within a couple of years, Knight's contract will look only a little bad, and it shouldn't be that hard to move him.

I was actually thinking of comments I'd heard and read from players. I know how hyper-critical we fans can be and how blindly supportive we can be too but I heard several players talk about what a huge improvement he'd made (prior to the trade). All we've seen is mostly the same player that played so poorly in Detroit.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't hate Goodwin at all. I still like his potential but I've yet to see anything from him that makes me believe he can be even a decent point guard. And he's always made nice defensive plays, it's what he does inside a team defense that worries me. But as has been said, he's still very young. I'm looking forward to the time when we're able to give him minutes at a position that makes more sense for him. Right now we're short at the point guard position and it's understandable why we're using him there but he's a fish out of water orchestrating a team's offense IMO.

I don't think Goodwin cares much for playing PG. I remember pre draft he said that one of the reasons he felt he couldn't live up to the hype at Kentucky was because he doesn't like to play PG and is a SG. Unlike Brandon Knight who continues to force the PG title on him, Goodwin is at least honest.

Now obviously he's not gonna be some great SG with such bad shooting but that's where he needs to learn to cut, improve ball handling, finishing at the rim and play off ball better and perhaps carve out a career as a poor man's Demar DeRozan.

 

[WuRaider]

Now that the drama is over, we can celebrate McD not having to include Archie in the deal.

You must be registered for see images

 

[BC867]

Now that the drama is over, we can celebrate McD not having to include Archie in the deal.

You must be registered for see images

This thread is entitled "Goodwin as starting PG". The highlight film shows him driving to the basket with an exciting stuff. He is a stop-gap PG because all of the others were injured. Certainly not a PG of the future.

Archie Goodwin's best hope to succeed in the NBA would be as instant offense off the bench.

 

[Chaplin]

Once Knight comes back, Archie certainly won't be the starting PG anymore.

 

[sunsfan88]

Once Knight comes back, Archie certainly won't be the starting PG anymore.

Ugh. It's not all that fun trying to watch Goodwin play PG because he's better off ball but damn it will be painful to see Knight play in any capacity again

I could see a decline in Booker's play now. He'll be lucky if Knight passes him the ball at least 5 times in a game.

 

[sunsfan88]

Goodwin misses having the ball as much and is driven to be a starter again.

“I just like the ball in my hands,” Goodwin said. “Wherever I can get the ball at in my hands offensively, that’s all that really matters to me. For me, to just say I’m a stand-up corner guy, I wouldn’t be realistic with myself. When I have the ball in my hands, that’s when I’m most effective. Regardless of whether I’m at the 1 or 2, if I have the ball in my hands, I’m fine. I just try to look for different ways without being selfish or taking it out of the team concept.”

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...s-suns-near-trade-son-stephen-curry/81191584/

I'd like to see them put Archie back in the starting lineup. There's nothing to lose and I would rather a 22 year old kid like him learn and improve than see a 30 something vet like Price make a fool of himself out there.

Plus it may just be me but Booker looked a lot more confident and comfortable out there with Goodwin rather than Price.

 

[leclerc]

I agree. They seem to have better chemistry and ball movement wih Archie starting. Granted he probably has a higher turnover rate and lower shooting percentage but he also puts up more points.

I highly doubt he'll be our primary pg next year but if he finishes the season strong and we move Knight for a forward or wing, maybe he can play backup pg.