Goran Dragic plans to test free agency; blames struggles on 3 PG system

[BC867]

Markieff has a PER of 18.6. He's averaging just one fewer assist than Goran. He's putting up 15 points and 6 rebounds along with leading the team in steals. He's played fairly solid defense when used down low. He hasn't been great but he has greatly outplayed Goran, PJ, Marcus, Tolliver etc. and if you include defense he's arguably been our second best player behind Bledsoe. Not that his defense is great but it's nowhere near as bad as that played by Green, Goran or IT.

Steve

OK, Steve. Kieff has become solid as a non-dominating Power Forward (as long as he is not playing Center). The same could be said for your guy Frye last season. Except for his hold-and-cold performances, which hasn't been the case too much with Kieff.

So, 4 of our top 5 players are Guards. 'Doesn't change the imbalance very much. And the obviousity ('like that?) that Goran would decline when being demoted from his role from much of last season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

OK, Steve. Kieff has become solid as a non-dominating Power Forward (as long as he is not playing Center). The same could be said for your guy Frye last season. Except for his hold-and-cold performances, which hasn't been the case too much with Kieff.

So, 4 of our top 5 players are Guards. 'Doesn't change the imbalance very much. And the obviousity ('like that?) that Goran would decline when being demoted from his role from much of last season.

I think you are underselling Markieff a bit but I mostly agree with you up to this point. There is a serious imbalance on this team, we are definitely guard heavy. But, other than the loss of Frye, I see no (roster related) reason for Goran to decline as he has. He's played poorly from the beginning of camp, long before he saw his minutes dwindle. Thomas didn't cause Goran to mail it in on defense and Dragic's shot didn't disappear because we upgraded the backup role. Frankly, I didn't even think Goran looked all that great in international play this summer. I only watched him in 3 or 4 games and he shot fairly well against the weaker teams but he looked a step slow out there especially when they played the US.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Thomas didn't cause Goran to mail it in on defense and Dragic's shot didn't disappear because we upgraded the backup role.

C'mon, you know that IT, although he doesn't start, is THE Point Guard when he is on the floor -- over Dragic and over Bledsoe.

Often, this season so far, he has been THE Point Guard with the game on the line.

Just think how you'd react if you rejoined your old employer to take over the lead position from a super star. Then they brought in another lead Point Guard. Then they brought in a third.

Upgraded the backup role? I don't think there is anyone on this board who thinks that Thomas simply occupies the backup role. Management has created a 3-way competition every night.

Edit: I just heard that IT is out with an ankle injury. Woo hoo. Goran is back to backup PG.

Something like that should be resolved in training camp. Not thrown in their faces every minute of every game. Goran's feelings were so predictable. And so understandable.

Perhaps the Suns FO expects Bledsoe to go down with injury again. Leaving the Suns with a very healthy situation.

Goran, IT and Green in a 3-way rotation at the two Guard positions, with Goran getting some of his minutes at the "2". And not having to overuse any of them.

Unfortunately if Eric stays healthy this season, Goran has a right to be pi$$ed with the Suns.

EDIT: I just heard that IT is out tonight with a right ankle contusion. Woo hoo. Goran is up to first backup.

 

[AzStevenCal]

C'mon, you know that IT, although he doesn't start, is THE Point Guard when he is on the floor -- over Dragic and over Bledsoe.

Often, this season so far, he has been THE Point Guard with the game on the line.

Just think how you'd react if you rejoined your old employer to take over the lead position from a super star. Then they brought in another lead Point Guard. Then they brought in a third.

Upgraded the backup role? I don't think there is anyone on this board who thinks that Thomas simply occupies the backup role. Management has created a 3-way competition every night.

Edit: I just heard that IT is out with an ankle injury. Woo hoo. Goran is back to backup PG.

Something like that should be resolved in training camp. Not thrown in their faces every minute of every game. Goran's feelings were so predictable. And so understandable.

Perhaps the Suns FO expects Bledsoe to go down with injury again. Leaving the Suns with a very healthy situation.

Goran, IT and Green in a 3-way rotation at the two Guard positions, with Goran getting some of his minutes at the "2". And not having to overuse any of them.

Unfortunately if Eric stays healthy this season, Goran has a right to be pi$$ed with the Suns.

EDIT: I just heard that IT is out tonight with a right ankle contusion. Woo hoo. Goran is up to first backup.

I would find your position more plausible if it had happened over a period of time but it didn't. Dragic has been out of sorts from the beginning. If he really fell apart out of fear that IT would take his time BEFORE IT took some of his time, then he isn't the player we need to build around.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

I just hope Dragic doesn't end up in LA.

 

[BC867]

I just hope Dragic doesn't end up in LA.

Goran Dragic, again the AfterNash?

Or were you thinking the Clips?

 

[BC867]

I would find your position more plausible if it had happened over a period of time but it didn't. Dragic has been out of sorts from the beginning. If he really fell apart out of fear that IT would take his time BEFORE IT took some of his time, then he isn't the player we need to build around.

Steve

At this point, Dragic is the leading scorer in the game vs. the Nuggets with IT out. And, led by Dragic, the Suns have opened up an 8-point lead.

And then, Bledsoe gets hurt and is in the locker room.

I'm glad we have Goran Dragic. He deserves better than this circus in the backcourt.

 

[SirStefan32]

Goran Dragic, again the AfterNash?

Or were you thinking the Clips?

Lakers. I don't see how he ends up on the Clippers.

 

[AzStevenCal]

At this point, Dragic is the leading scorer in the game vs. the Nuggets with IT out. And, led by Dragic, the Suns have opened up an 8-point lead.

And then, Bledsoe gets hurt and is in the locker room.

I'm glad we have Goran Dragic. He deserves better than this circus in the backcourt.

He's been making his outside shots, as the shooting guard mostly. He's also working harder on defense but he's still not able to create for others when he functions as the point guard. Only two assists at this point.

Steve

 

[BC867]

He's been making his outside shots, as the shooting guard mostly. He's also working harder on defense but he's still not able to create for others when he functions as the point guard. Only two assists at this point.

Steve

Goran Dragic averaged 7.4 assists when he rejoined the Suns in 2012-13.

Then Bledsoe joined in 2013-14 and we had two lead Point Guards.

Then Thomas joined the mix this season and we have three lead Point Guards.

How can you blame Goran for not creating for others and having only two assists? That is the problem. He has been stripped of his role.

Despite his high turnover rate, Bledsoe has clearly been annointed by Horny as our starting Point Guard. And Thomas is our closing Point Guard.

It may be hot in Phoenix, but Goran Dragic has been left in the cold.


Kidnap Goran Dragic, take him to northern Arizona, leave him out in the snow in his shorts and blame him for getting pneumonia. Yeah, right!

 

[Sci Fi]

Goran Dragic averaged 7.4 assists when he rejoined the Suns in 2012-13.

Then Bledsoe joined in 2013-14 and we had two lead Point Guards.

Then Thomas joined the mix this season and we have three lead Point Guards.

How can you blame Goran for not creating for others and having only two assists? That is the problem. He has been stripped of his role.

Despite his high turnover rate, Bledsoe has clearly been annointed by Horny as our starting Point Guard. And Thomas is our closing Point Guard.

It may be hot in Phoenix, but Goran Dragic has been left in the cold.


Kidnap Goran Dragic, take him to northern Arizona, leave him out in the snow in his shorts and blame him for getting pneumonia. Yeah, right!

It's a FACT Goran Dragic is an average player without Channing Frye!

 

[95pro]

How many times was Goran in the corner while Bledsoe had the ball? How many chances did he get to feed Len like Bledsoe did?

 

[Phrazbit]

IT is the only one of them that is happy with things they way they are and I imagine Eric and Goran both envy him getting to run the show unencumbered by another PG. This would put them all on an equal footing and they'd all get opportunities to be the man in charge. There would be a rivalry among them to see who could accomplish the most on his watch and I'd expect to see them exerting maximum effort toward that end, regardless of how they felt about being put in that position. We know what cures all in basketball and that is winning. If we went on winning binge they'd all be happy as clams.

I respect the long and well thought out post and apologize for ignoring the rest of the argument but I feel like the entire premise comes apart by thinking any of them would be happy playing 16 minutes a game. They'd be absolutely furious. Especially Goran who is playing for a contract, it wouldn't matter if the team was winning, he would feel like he is getting screwed... and rightfully so.

I don't think it was a coincidence that Bledsoe and Dragic both had really really strong games tonight while Thomas was out. Its the most the rotations have come to being like last season and guys were clearly more comfortable.

I don't think that means we should immediately dump Thomas, but I do think that Goran and Eric are far more important to the team than he is and they need to be allowed to play a regular rotation of minutes without having to worry about getting benched for a half because Thomas just torched some backups in the 2nd quarter.

But all in all... the team is 10-6, despite all the belly aching (and now the doubters claiming the scalps) the guards have easily been the strength of the team and absolutely are among the best back courts in the league... despite some individual inconsistency. The guys are starting to play better, Eric very much so. Hopefully things keep trending the way they are.

 

[Superbone]

Man, Steve, have you been pounding on Dragic for the last week. Did he insult your family or something? Unwarranted in my book. The dude is a baller and it's been tough on him since the ball has been taken out of his hands and his minutes have been spotty.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Man, Steve, have you been pounding on Dragic for the last week. Did he insult your family or something? Unwarranted in my book. The dude is a baller and it's been tough on him since the ball has been taken out of his hands and his minutes have been spotty.

Go back and read everyone one of my recent posts on him again. I think you're missing something along the way. I'm just saying pretty much the same thing I've said all along. The only nasty things I've said have been prefaced with an "if". If you believe he's not playing defense because he's got his feelings hurt or he's not making baskets because the mean old coach won't let him play point guard for the whole game than I think we're better off without him. But I don't believe those things. And if you're convinced that he's going to demand a max contract then again, I think we're better off without him. I don't want to lose him but I don't want to use up that much of our cap for a guard that is offense only.

The absence of Frye aside, I think it's exhaustion that's hurting him the most and it may even be more mental exhaustion than physical. It's hard to go for a few years straight without a real break IMO. I think spacing is killing his game primarily as a point guard but exhaustion is the real reason his shot hasn't been falling consistently which is a secondary reason for his limited opportunities to penetrate.

I've thought for awhile now that Goran was a much better basketball player than he is a point guard. Unless you're going to surround him with a couple of shooters and someone like Frye that can also run the pick and roll with him though, I don't think he's the ideal person to run an offense. He can do it but he's fairly average in that setting. But when he's paired with another ball handler and his shot is falling, I think he's got the ability to impact the game almost to the level that Harden and Manu do and in a similar manner.

BTW, his minutes really weren't that spotty prior to the Philadelphia game. Through the first 12 games he was logging almost 33 minutes per outing. And he was getting plenty of touches and plenty of chances to run the offense. He was just giving the ball up if he didn't see holes in the defense. He wasn't getting the minutes without another PG that he is used to but the offense was very stagnant as soon as became the primary ball handler. I don't think Jeff had any choice but to make the quick change.

I'll also add that I don't think the multi guard experiment has been quite the bust so many are calling it. We've struggled but still, we have the 9th best record in the NBA. Not in the West, 9th best record overall. For a failure, that's not too shabby.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Man, Steve, have you been pounding on Dragic for the last week. Did he insult your family or something? Unwarranted in my book. The dude is a baller and it's been tough on him since the ball has been taken out of his hands and his minutes have been spotty.

It's not that, I think Steve may gotten a very nice Thanksgiving gift from Channing Frye

Steve has concluded that Dragic is nothing more than a mediocre or average player unless Channing Frye is on the court with him.

Apparently Frye doesn't have this affect on any of the guards in Orlando, or before joining PHX, NY and Portland. It's just Dragic.

I give the man credit for making his case each time and doing a decent job with it but I disagree with the premise that Dragic played at a star level mainly due to Frye last season. Unless there is some romantic connection between the two which we (and Mrs.Frye & Mrs.Dragic) don't know about.

 

[devilalum]

Here's an article about the Suns PG situation.

https://www.numberfire.com/nba/news...-experiment-going-for-the-phoenix-suns-so-far

Of course their stats are down with the fewer minutes but why do all 3 have a lower FGP?

 

[devilalum]

Right now, if you had to choose one next summer would you rather sign G Green or Dragic?

 

[slinslin]

Right now, if you had to choose one next summer would you rather sign G Green or Dragic?

Green and it is not even close if the numbers are 7M$ per for Green or 14M$ per for Dragic.

I am not particularly excited about re-signing an almost 30 year old Dragic to that kind of deal anyway and that we would be perfectly fine with a backcout of

Green/Goodwin
Bledsoe/Thomas/Ennis

Actually thinking that Ennis would make Thomas expandable eventually also.

 

[SirStefan32]

Go back and read everyone one of my recent posts on him again. I think you're missing something along the way. I'm just saying pretty much the same thing I've said all along. The only nasty things I've said have been prefaced with an "if". If you believe he's not playing defense because he's got his feelings hurt or he's not making baskets because the mean old coach won't let him play point guard for the whole game than I think we're better off without him. But I don't believe those things. And if you're convinced that he's going to demand a max contract then again, I think we're better off without him. I don't want to lose him but I don't want to use up that much of our cap for a guard that is offense only.

The absence of Frye aside, I think it's exhaustion that's hurting him the most and it may even be more mental exhaustion than physical. It's hard to go for a few years straight without a real break IMO. I think spacing is killing his game primarily as a point guard but exhaustion is the real reason his shot hasn't been falling consistently which is a secondary reason for his limited opportunities to penetrate.

I've thought for awhile now that Goran was a much better basketball player than he is a point guard. Unless you're going to surround him with a couple of shooters and someone like Frye that can also run the pick and roll with him though, I don't think he's the ideal person to run an offense. He can do it but he's fairly average in that setting. But when he's paired with another ball handler and his shot is falling, I think he's got the ability to impact the game almost to the level that Harden and Manu do and in a similar manner.

BTW, his minutes really weren't that spotty prior to the Philadelphia game. Through the first 12 games he was logging almost 33 minutes per outing. And he was getting plenty of touches and plenty of chances to run the offense. He was just giving the ball up if he didn't see holes in the defense. He wasn't getting the minutes without another PG that he is used to but the offense was very stagnant as soon as became the primary ball handler. I don't think Jeff had any choice but to make the quick change.

I'll also add that I don't think the multi guard experiment has been quite the bust so many are calling it. We've struggled but still, we have the 9th best record in the NBA. Not in the West, 9th best record overall. For a failure, that's not too shabby.

Steve

Steve, along with Eric, you are my favorite poster here, but your sudden infatuation with Frye and stretch fours in general is starting to rival BC's love of a traditional Center alongside a traditional PF (which I agree with.)
Most of your post are about Frye or stretch fours.

I also don't understand why you keep saying Dragic is not an ideal person to run the offense, but you are fine with Bledsoe. I have said many times Goran is not a perfect PG, but he is head and shoulder above Bledsoe as a play maker.

Problem with Dragic is simple- he needs to have the ball in his hands (just like Bledsoe does), and frankly, his shot just isn't there. It's coming back, but it's not at the level it was last year.

 

[SirStefan32]

Right now, if you had to choose one next summer would you rather sign G Green or Dragic?

If Bledsoe and IT are staying, then Green easily. If one of them goes, you gotta go with Dragic.

 

[Chaz]

I respect the long and well thought out post and apologize for ignoring the rest of the argument but I feel like the entire premise comes apart by thinking any of them would be happy playing 16 minutes a game. They'd be absolutely furious. Especially Goran who is playing for a contract, it wouldn't matter if the team was winning, he would feel like he is getting screwed... and rightfully so.

I don't think it was a coincidence that Bledsoe and Dragic both had really really strong games tonight while Thomas was out. Its the most the rotations have come to being like last season and guys were clearly more comfortable.

I don't think that means we should immediately dump Thomas, but I do think that Goran and Eric are far more important to the team than he is and they need to be allowed to play a regular rotation of minutes without having to worry about getting benched for a half because Thomas just torched some backups in the 2nd quarter.

But all in all... the team is 10-6, despite all the belly aching (and now the doubters claiming the scalps) the guards have easily been the strength of the team and absolutely are among the best back courts in the league... despite some individual inconsistency. The guys are starting to play better, Eric very much so. Hopefully things keep trending the way they are.

Well said.

The guards are learning to play together. They are professionals and I don't think this is the problem that some are making it out to be.
I wanted to wait until 20 games in to see what we had. So far they are right in the thick of the playoff hunt even with two bad home losses early.
Despite the earlier loss I think they can matchup with the Clippers. Looking forward to the matchup with the Warriors.
The problem so far is keeping the other team off the FT line.

 

[sunsfan88]

Well said.

The guards are learning to play together. They are professionals and I don't think this is the problem that some are making it out to be.
I wanted to wait until 20 games in to see what we had. So far they are right in the thick of the playoff hunt even with two bad home losses early.
Despite the earlier loss I think they can matchup with the Clippers. Looking forward to the matchup with the Warriors.
The problem so far is keeping the other team off the FT line.

We may be in the thick of the playoff mix and everything but Suns have had one of the easiest, if not the easiest schedule thus far.

Phoenix has lost to every single team that has a winning record except for the Spurs game from the 2nd game.

 

[Chaplin]

We may be in the thick of the playoff mix and everything but Suns have had one of the easiest, if not the easiest schedule thus far.

Pretty sure that is incorrect. At least not in the entire NBA.

 

[Chaz]

We may be in the thick of the playoff mix and everything but Suns have had one of the easiest, if not the easiest schedule thus far.

Phoenix has lost to every single team that has a winning record except for the Spurs game from the 2nd game.

Who can really tell how difficult a schedule is 15 games into the season?