Grant Hill Reportedly Leaning Toward Knicks

[Cheesebeef]

Thanks, I appreciate it. I don't usually post on boards but the concept that Steve Nash wasn't competitive just seemed so wrong...

uh... who said HE WASN'T COMPEITIVE? No one, I just said I didn't believe he was an competitive as some of the all time greats who literally would do anything to win a title.

seriously... you guys want to make this a black and white issue when there are shades of grey... and the reason i knew i'd catch flak for this because if you say one thing that isn't GLOWING about steve nash, people here go nuts.

I know it's easier to debate in black and white terms, but it really derails the conversation by putting words into other's mouths.

 

[crisper57]

Craig620 via Twitter:

#Suns @realgranthill33 said he turned down offers for more money; and re: Knicks "if there was a pecking order they weren't at the top"

 

[PetryJr]

seriously... you guys want to make this a black and white issue when there are shades of grey... and the reason i knew i'd catch flak for this because if you say one thing that isn't GLOWING about steve nash, people here go nuts.

I know it's easier to debate in black and white terms, but it really derails the conversation by putting words into other's mouths.

What's interesting is that you choose the one post that sounds "black and white" and respond to it, yet when AzStevenCal gives a perfect representation of the way some people see competitiveness that is not at all in black and white terms, you ignore it. I'll give you another chance and quote it again:

"This may be where we differ the most. To me competition and winning are not directly related. To be a competitor means to give everything you have within the rules (written AND spirit of) in order to win. Whether you win or not is immaterial in this regard."

This is not black and white. It's just a different representation from yours. Nash gives everything he has within the rules, therefore he's as competitive as you can be.

No question there are many players who don't do the same. We agree that there are shades of gray. We just disagree about the criteria.

 

[PetryJr]

if you think every NBA superstar DOESN'T have an ego the size of the moon, you're living in fantasy land.

When did I say that? I just think Nash is not egotistical in the sense you mentioned (which indicated selfishness). At all.

 

[Bells]

cheesebeef -

I simply mean that I don't believe actions off the court can be used to determine how serious or competitive Nash or Grant are.

Grant might simply feel that being on the court with the Suns training staff is better than being on the bench while others players are winning a championship.

Nash might feel that being the best Sun he can be is better than winning a championship. He already has 2 MVPs and ? number of assist titles... maybe that is enough for "awards" for him and he just wants to be on the floor playing as a Sun.

Neither of those show what level of competitiveness they have, simply personality.

 

[SunsTzu]

Most likely we'll end up trading all our good players away for a contract that someone is trying to dump (ala Andrew Iguodala).

The Suns have 1 really good player, and many on the board are more upset with the fact the team likely won't trade him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Neither of those show what level of competitiveness they have, simply personality.

you don't think level of competitiveness has anything to do with personality? isn't competitive an adjective that describes one's personality?

 

[Bells]

No. I believe that a person who wanted to start on borderline playoff team can be as much or more competitive than someone who wanted to be a role player on a championship team.

Does it make Bruce Bowen more competitive than Nash that he was willing to play dirty for a championship? Or is Nash more because he did everything he could to make his teammates better? I don't think Nash's personality would let him be a dirty player but that doesn't make him less competitive.