Have You Seen Us? - Week 2 Edition

[kerouac9]

I'm betting the folks on Hardy Drive weren't telling the players on the plane ride home they were invisible which is sort of what you did here.

There's a "slant" to your posting style though. Housler yes 8 catches if you just say 2 games one catch. But that's one wya of looking. Another is barely played week 1 listed injured, barely played week 2 but when he HAD to come in, he made a big catch. he was also wide open on another one but Kolb didn't see him. You see 1 catch in 2 games as a trend, maybe the trend is 1 catch in about a quarter of one game actually being on the field? Maybe if Heap is out a few games Housler will get more PT and get more catches?


It seems to me most of the objections were your timing, not your actual message.

If I really wanted to complain about something after yesterday it would be that Floyd is doing nothing but hurting us so far and we sure could have used an OL with that pick. But I get he is a rookie and with more time will get better.

I get that you're a Rob Housler homer for some reason. You really want him to be good, not matter what the evidence is. "Injured." LOL. But aren't you defining "big catch" down quite a bit here?

7 yard reception on 1st and 10 in the middle of a 6 play drive. Not exactly 3rd and 12, is it? Dude's in his second year. It's time for him to start showing something legitimate.

I'm more disappointed in Housler's failure to impact than I am with Floyd or Ryan Williams. Let me know when you expect him to do something in the game, and maybe I'll consider taking him off this list until he beats your deadline.

By the second game of his second season, Aaron Hernandez had 2 receptions for 14 yards and 2 TDs. Jimmy Graham had 10 receptions for 135 yards and a TD. Jermichael Finley had 5 receptions for 62 yards.

Dude apparently isn't even making an argument to get incorporated into the offense working with a coaching staff who loved him coming out of college. Where there's smoke...

 

[MadCardDisease]

I get that you're a Rob Housler homer for some reason. You really want him to be good, not matter what the evidence is. "Injured." LOL. But aren't you defining "big catch" down quite a bit here?

7 yard reception on 1st and 10 in the middle of a 6 play drive. Not exactly 3rd and 12, is it? Dude's in his second year. It's time for him to start showing something legitimate.

I'm more disappointed in Housler's failure to impact than I am with Floyd or Ryan Williams. Let me know when you expect him to do something in the game, and maybe I'll consider taking him off this list until he beats your deadline.

By the second game of his second season, Aaron Hernandez had 2 receptions for 14 yards and 2 TDs. Jimmy Graham had 10 receptions for 135 yards and a TD. Jermichael Finley had 5 receptions for 62 yards.

Dude apparently isn't even making an argument to get incorporated into the offense working with a coaching staff who loved him coming out of college. Where there's smoke...

There's K9 lighting a match.

 

[English on tour]

Just like Housler saved a TD last week. He had a huge key catch on a TD drive this week. I'll take it!

Was just thinking the same thing.

Will have a bigger roll next week with King if Heap is dinged.

 

[Russ Smith]

I get that you're a Rob Housler homer for some reason. You really want him to be good, not matter what the evidence is. "Injured." LOL. But aren't you defining "big catch" down quite a bit here?

7 yard reception on 1st and 10 in the middle of a 6 play drive. Not exactly 3rd and 12, is it? Dude's in his second year. It's time for him to start showing something legitimate.

I'm more disappointed in Housler's failure to impact than I am with Floyd or Ryan Williams. Let me know when you expect him to do something in the game, and maybe I'll consider taking him off this list until he beats your deadline.

By the second game of his second season, Aaron Hernandez had 2 receptions for 14 yards and 2 TDs. Jimmy Graham had 10 receptions for 135 yards and a TD. Jermichael Finley had 5 receptions for 62 yards.

Dude apparently isn't even making an argument to get incorporated into the offense working with a coaching staff who loved him coming out of college. Where there's smoke...

So then you're admitting your entire premise for this thread is untrue? You said the point of this thread was to discuss guys who we've made a considerable investment in but aren't producing. Floyd makes MUCH more than Housler, so if you were serious about that Housler wouldn't be the guy you were going after.

And again, is it your contention that the Cards violated NFL rules by listing Housler on the injury list last week when he wasn't really injured?

 

[Russ Smith]

As for the catch yes it was big, we scored the TD on the drive, and it put us in 2nd and short which is huge when you're in the redzone in a compressed field.

If he'd dropped it are been ruled out of bounds do you really expect me to believe you wouldn't have led with that?

I think Housler is talented, I think we have QB's who can't get the ball to TE's. Kolb missed Heap again yesterday. He missed Housler twice last year for TD's on the same play, Skelton missed him at least once last year on the same play.

He has had some drops, not a great blocker, and has been injured, but he gets open, that's usually a trait I like in my TE's.

I don't think the Cards invented a hamstring injury during the preseason so they could list him as injured during the week before the Seattle opener, I'm assuming he actually is injured. They're goign with the better blocking TE's because they want to protect the QB.

If Heap is injured Housler is going to have to step up, like he did in the 4th quarter. He had been in the game less than a minute and a half when he made that catch.

 

[kerouac9]

So then you're admitting your entire premise for this thread is untrue? You said the point of this thread was to discuss guys who we've made a considerable investment in but aren't producing. Floyd makes MUCH more than Housler, so if you were serious about that Housler wouldn't be the guy you were going after.

And again, is it your contention that the Cards violated NFL rules by listing Housler on the injury list last week when he wasn't really injured?

http://www.nfl.com/injuries?week=1

Practiced fully and was probable to play? What a huge injury. How was Rob Housler supposed to get on the field when all he did was practice fully the entire week and all of training camp? It's not like Jeff King was injured for almost the entire preseason! It's funny to me the guys you choose to fall all over yourself making excuses for.

"Violated NFL rules." LOL. That's seriously hilarious.

Sorry, I've made it pretty clear that I'm disappointed that Floyd isn't doing more, but not in a panic about it. I believed more than almost anyone in Andre Roberts and Early Doucet after last year. I went on record in JUNE or so saying that we shouldn't expect more than 60 catches and 800 yards from Floyd. No, I'm not upset about him.

Am I upset about Rob Housler? Heck, yeah. It was fine that he didn't produce as a rookie, because rookie TEs maybe have one of the most difficult transitions to the NFL of any offensive player except quarterbacks. But good rookie tight ends usually end up showing something early in their sophomore seasons. What has Rob Housler shown? That he can make his quarterbacks look bad by ALMOST running a good seam route?

I'm even more upset about Ryan Williams being cover-your-eyes awful, but at least he had two legitimately big carries late in the game to get him into positive territory on the day. Your third round pick has to do better than chasing down a guy he overran on the original return (yup, that's what happened).

 

[Russ Smith]

http://www.nfl.com/injuries?week=1

Practiced fully and was probable to play? What a huge injury. How was Rob Housler supposed to get on the field when all he did was practice fully the entire week and all of training camp? It's not like Jeff King was injured for almost the entire preseason! It's funny to me the guys you choose to fall all over yourself making excuses for.

"Violated NFL rules." LOL. That's seriously hilarious.

Sorry, I've made it pretty clear that I'm disappointed that Floyd isn't doing more, but not in a panic about it. I believed more than almost anyone in Andre Roberts and Early Doucet after last year. I went on record in JUNE or so saying that we shouldn't expect more than 60 catches and 800 yards from Floyd. No, I'm not upset about him.

Am I upset about Rob Housler? Heck, yeah. It was fine that he didn't produce as a rookie, because rookie TEs maybe have one of the most difficult transitions to the NFL of any offensive player except quarterbacks. But good rookie tight ends usually end up showing something early in their sophomore seasons. What has Rob Housler shown? That he can make his quarterbacks look bad by ALMOST running a good seam route?

I'm even more upset about Ryan Williams being cover-your-eyes awful, but at least he had two legitimately big carries late in the game to get him into positive territory on the day. Your third round pick has to do better than chasing down a guy he overran on the original return (yup, that's what happened).

So now being listed as probable on an injury list means LOL if someone says he was injured? That's why you get blowback on these threads, you will bend over backwards to avoid saying you were wrong about something. I told you last week he was injured and you questioned it. So I told you 2 sources that said he was, and you ignored it. Then this week you write "injured" LOL. Have you ever had a hamstring injury? I have, you don't get over it in a couple of weeks but NFL players play through it, they have to, or they don't stay in the NFL.

And yes it's against NFL rules to put guys on the injured list who aren't injured, irony alert the Pats were the one that essentially created that. They kept not listing injuries so the NFL told them to knock if off so Belichick listed like 20 guys as hurt knowing full well they didn't qualify per the NFL guidelines. IIRC he got chastised and maybe even fined.

So yes, when I first brought it up you implied he wasn't really hurt. Now you're admitting he was listed hurt but insinuating he wasn't really hurt. So clearly you think the Cards lied. Why? Do you really think they're listing him as hurt so it won't look bad a 3rd round pick isn't playing more?

 

[kerouac9]

So now being listed as probable on an injury list means LOL if someone says he was injured? That's why you get blowback on these threads, you will bend over backwards to avoid saying you were wrong about something. I told you last week he was injured and you questioned it. So I told you 2 sources that said he was, and you ignored it. Then this week you write "injured" LOL. Have you ever had a hamstring injury? I have, you don't get over it in a couple of weeks but NFL players play through it, they have to, or they don't stay in the NFL.

And yes it's against NFL rules to put guys on the injured list who aren't injured, irony alert the Pats were the one that essentially created that. They kept not listing injuries so the NFL told them to knock if off so Belichick listed like 20 guys as hurt knowing full well they didn't qualify per the NFL guidelines. IIRC he got chastised and maybe even fined.

So yes, when I first brought it up you implied he wasn't really hurt. Now you're admitting he was listed hurt but insinuating he wasn't really hurt. So clearly you think the Cards lied. Why? Do you really think they're listing him as hurt so it won't look bad a 3rd round pick isn't playing more?

Did he looked hurt chasing down Leon Washington from behind? He didn't appear on the Week 2 injury report--was that because he's such a faster healer than anyone else in the NFL?

There's a lot of reasons why guys show up on the injury report. Maybe Housler saw the writing on the wall regarding his PT against Seattle and said that he was feeling gimpy on an unconfirmable soft-tissue injury on Friday afternoon. Maybe the Cards are as disappointed as I am that Rob Housler has looked awful, and hoped that maybe he was injured instead of admitting to themselves they'd maybe blown another third-round pick.

Can't find any evidence that Belichick was chastistized by the NFL for putting healthy players on the injury report. You're right that he's kept injured players off, but I found an article from last December noting that Tom Brady had appeared on the injury report with an elbow for two years.

What's your alternative theory of the case, Russ? That Rob Housler is ready to turn into Jimmy Graham (that comparison comes straight out of Hardy Drive; that's not something I'm imposing on him from outside), but the Cards are hiding him on the bench because...

...They want to serve Todd Heap's ego and give him a chance to hit incentives?
...Jeff King provides a better option on third-and-nine?
...We wanted to beat New England, but not that bad?
...We want to make sure we can get Housler a discount extension until really letting him loose on the league?

Good players find a way of getting on the field and looking good. Rob Housler made one nice catch when he had the chance, but he certainly hasn't earned his way into more playtime, and hasn't illustrated that he's a better option than the two guys sitting in front of him being middling productive.

 

[Russ Smith]

Did he looked hurt chasing down Leon Washington from behind? He didn't appear on the Week 2 injury report--was that because he's such a faster healer than anyone else in the NFL?

There's a lot of reasons why guys show up on the injury report. Maybe Housler saw the writing on the wall regarding his PT against Seattle and said that he was feeling gimpy on an unconfirmable soft-tissue injury on Friday afternoon. Maybe the Cards are as disappointed as I am that Rob Housler has looked awful, and hoped that maybe he was injured instead of admitting to themselves they'd maybe blown another third-round pick.

Can't find any evidence that Belichick was chastistized by the NFL for putting healthy players on the injury report. You're right that he's kept injured players off, but I found an article from last December noting that Tom Brady had appeared on the injury report with an elbow for two years.

What's your alternative theory of the case, Russ? That Rob Housler is ready to turn into Jimmy Graham (that comparison comes straight out of Hardy Drive; that's not something I'm imposing on him from outside), but the Cards are hiding him on the bench because...

...They want to serve Todd Heap's ego and give him a chance to hit incentives?
...Jeff King provides a better option on third-and-nine?
...We wanted to beat New England, but not that bad?
...We want to make sure we can get Housler a discount extension until really letting him loose on the league?

Good players find a way of getting on the field and looking good. Rob Housler made one nice catch when he had the chance, but he certainly hasn't earned his way into more playtime, and hasn't illustrated that he's a better option than the two guys sitting in front of him being middling productive.

Did PP look hurt yesterday? So his groin injury is madeup too?

Hint, NFL players play with pain through a lot of ways, it doesn't mean they're not really hurt it just means they aren't too hurt to actually play.

Take a stand, what is your explanation for the Cards listing him injured if you contend he wasn't really injured. Which theory do you want that he lied to them, that they hoped he was injured so listed him as such?

I already told you I think he was injured in the preseason and that the OL was so bad in the preseason the Cards realized they had to help, especially the LT. So we're doing things like keeping King in more to help pass block(as you mentioned in another thread). Housler is not a good blocker, in the current team he's less valuable than King or Heap because they both block better than he does.

it's not his fault we don't have a good OL and Drew Brees at QB when he got drafted. I don't expect him to be Jimmy Graham but by the same token if we cut him today I don't think he'd be selling insurance for the rest of his life I think he'd be playing for another NFL team pretty quickly. He played essentially the 4th quarter and had as many catches as Roberts did. Roberts got the TD, I kept asking all game why aren't we going ot Roberts more, they were doubling Fitz all over but we kept going to the TE. I have to assume Roberts wasn't open.

Just so we're clear maybe from now on you should post a weekly gameday list of who's really injured and who's just pretending to be injured. Might help me in fantasy football too.

 

[kerouac9]

Did PP look hurt yesterday? So his groin injury is madeup too?

Hint, NFL players play with pain through a lot of ways, it doesn't mean they're not really hurt it just means they aren't too hurt to actually play.

Take a stand, what is your explanation for the Cards listing him injured if you contend he wasn't really injured. Which theory do you want that he lied to them, that they hoped he was injured so listed him as such?

I already told you I think he was injured in the preseason and that the OL was so bad in the preseason the Cards realized they had to help, especially the LT. So we're doing things like keeping King in more to help pass block(as you mentioned in another thread). Housler is not a good blocker, in the current team he's less valuable than King or Heap because they both block better than he does.

it's not his fault we don't have a good OL and Drew Brees at QB when he got drafted. I don't expect him to be Jimmy Graham but by the same token if we cut him today I don't think he'd be selling insurance for the rest of his life I think he'd be playing for another NFL team pretty quickly. He played essentially the 4th quarter and had as many catches as Roberts did. Roberts got the TD, I kept asking all game why aren't we going ot Roberts more, they were doubling Fitz all over but we kept going to the TE. I have to assume Roberts wasn't open.

Just so we're clear maybe from now on you should post a weekly gameday list of who's really injured and who's just pretending to be injured. Might help me in fantasy football too.

It doesn't meaningfully make a difference to me who decided that Rob Housler should go on the injury report. I'm not sure why you can't or won't answer an easy question:

Has Rob Housler performed to your expectations, both in earned game play and production, in this, the second year of his career?

My answer to that question is "no." You provide a list of excuses. Regardless of the reasons--and fragility is no excuse, if there is a hamstring injury, it's his second in as many seasons with almost no playing time under his belt--is Housler playing to the level you thought he would be?

I'm not really interested in getting bogged down in administrative injury report minutiae. If that's what it takes for you to feel like you've "won" and that Rob Housler is among the top 35 tight ends in the NFL today, then you can go ahead and declare victory and move on. I'm sure he'd find a job in the NFL, but I don't think he'd start for anyone.

 

[Russ Smith]

It doesn't meaningfully make a difference to me who decided that Rob Housler should go on the injury report. I'm not sure why you can't or won't answer an easy question:

Has Rob Housler performed to your expectations, both in earned game play and production, in this, the second year of his career?

My answer to that question is "no." You provide a list of excuses. Regardless of the reasons--and fragility is no excuse, if there is a hamstring injury, it's his second in as many seasons with almost no playing time under his belt--is Housler playing to the level you thought he would be?

I'm not really interested in getting bogged down in administrative injury report minutiae. If that's what it takes for you to feel like you've "won" and that Rob Housler is among the top 35 tight ends in the NFL today, then you can go ahead and declare victory and move on. I'm sure he'd find a job in the NFL, but I don't think he'd start for anyone.

Crazy thing is I have a hard time responding to questions that weren't actually asked.

You asked me what my excuse was for why Housler wasn't Jimmy Graham.

has Housler played up to my expectations yet, last year yes, he was from a small school and he got open, 12 catches could have easily had more save some drops and bad throws. Showed speed. Everyone was saying he looked better in camp, several sites were reporting the Cards were very high on him based on that, was having a decent preseason when he got hurt.

I don't think he's going to end the season with 8 catches for 56 yards, if he does it'll be a huge disappointment.

And FYI, you "forgot" to answer the direct question I asked you. LOL.

I'll ask two this time. Was he really hurt? If not why was he listed as injured which is a rephrase of the previous question which was a rephrase of when I asked you about it after last weeks game.

Ironic that you suggested I'm ducking a question you didn't actually ask when you've been ducking that question for a week now.

 

[kerouac9]

Crazy thing is I have a hard time responding to questions that weren't actually asked.

You asked me what my excuse was for why Housler wasn't Jimmy Graham.

has Housler played up to my expectations yet, last year yes, he was from a small school and he got open, 12 catches could have easily had more save some drops and bad throws. Showed speed. Everyone was saying he looked better in camp, several sites were reporting the Cards were very high on him based on that, was having a decent preseason when he got hurt.

I don't think he's going to end the season with 8 catches for 56 yards, if he does it'll be a huge disappointment.

And FYI, you "forgot" to answer the direct question I asked you. LOL.

I'll ask two this time. Was he really hurt? If not why was he listed as injured which is a rephrase of the previous question which was a rephrase of when I asked you about it after last weeks game.

Ironic that you suggested I'm ducking a question you didn't actually ask when you've been ducking that question for a week now.

So... "No," then? He is not playing up to your expectations this year? Is that what your answer is?

Was your question whether Patrick Peterson was hurt? I have no idea. He didn't seem to be when he was locking down Brandon Lloyd. Did he maybe feel some soreness for his first real week of work? I guess. Again, gamesmanship in the injury point doesn't matter to me at all.

Was Rob Housler really hurt last week? Who cares? He was a full participant in practice, and he was active for the game. If it'll make you feel happy--yes, Rob Housler had a soft tissue injury that made no difference to his performance in practice or on Sunday.

 

[Duckjake]

There's K9 lighting a match.

Careful. Somebody called out K9 in regards to Ryan Williams on the game thread yesterday and Ryan fumbled on his next carry.

You guys HAVE to realize that whatever we write on ASFN, the opposite happens. 40yearfan alone is the cause of 12 of the 25 years of losing seasons.

 

[kerouac9]

Careful. Somebody called out K9 in regards to Ryan Williams on the game thread yesterday and Ryan fumbled on his next carry.

You guys HAVE to realize that whatever we write on ASFN, the opposite happens. 40yearfan alone is the cause of 12 of the 25 years of losing seasons.

LOL. It was Russ, apparently. I have no idea how you guys can sit on that game thread. The chat room is one thing, but to constantly update your page and see a bunch of posts that are like "Awesome!" "Good job!" "Terrible." "Can't let that happen."

 

[Duckjake]

LOL. It was Russ, apparently. I have no idea how you guys can sit on that game thread. The chat room is one thing, but to constantly update your page and see a bunch of posts that are like "Awesome!" "Good job!" "Terrible." "Can't let that happen."

When you are on the road and your only internet access is your smartphone its a good way to keep up with the game. I love it because of the ebb and flow and knowing there are so many other fans who go nuts during the games like I used to before we finally won an NFC Championship. Now it's just not life or death like it was when we wanted so bad to get beyond 5-11 every frickin' year and the Cards kept finding new and inventive ways to lose football games.

 

[Russ Smith]

So... "No," then? He is not playing up to your expectations this year? Is that what your answer is?

Was your question whether Patrick Peterson was hurt? I have no idea. He didn't seem to be when he was locking down Brandon Lloyd. Did he maybe feel some soreness for his first real week of work? I guess. Again, gamesmanship in the injury point doesn't matter to me at all.

Was Rob Housler really hurt last week? Who cares? He was a full participant in practice, and he was active for the game. If it'll make you feel happy--yes, Rob Housler had a soft tissue injury that made no difference to his performance in practice or on Sunday.

Again why don't you answer my question before asking me others. It's been a week now, and apparently you're FINALLY now saying he WAS hurt after implying for a week he wasn't and the Cards apparently just listed him on the injury list because he lied to them, they were trying to cover up a draft mistake etc. You have no idea if it impacted him or not you didn't even know he was injured when it first came up which is why you reacted the way you did LAST week. Rather than just admit you didn't know, you questioned if he was really hurt.

My expectations for him this year weren't set until I knew if he'd be playing or not remember he got hurt in the preseason.

I think he'll put up better numbers than he did last year and show progress, if he doesn't I'll be disappointed.

 

[Russ Smith]

Careful. Somebody called out K9 in regards to Ryan Williams on the game thread yesterday and Ryan fumbled on his next carry.

You guys HAVE to realize that whatever we write on ASFN, the opposite happens. 40yearfan alone is the cause of 12 of the 25 years of losing seasons.

What idiot did that in the game thread.

That must be why Kolb hasn't folded up like a tent since being benched, someone boldly stated he would so per ASFN logic he actually is playing better.

I guess we need another thread about how he can't mentally handle being benched just to make sure he plays ok again next week.

 

[Duckjake]

What idiot did that in the game thread.

That must be why Kolb hasn't folded up like a tent since being benched, someone boldly stated he would so per ASFN logic he actually is playing better.

I guess we need another thread about how he can't mentally handle being benched just to make sure he plays ok again next week.

Conventional wisdom on ASFN: Warner was either too old or too mediocre with his 87.5 QB rating to start ahead of Leinart. We all know how that worked out.

 

[kerouac9]

Michael Floyd: 6 offensive snaps.
Stewart Bradley: 0 defensive snaps, 18 special teams snaps.
Rob Housler: 36 total snaps, 13 special teams snaps.

Dan Williams was only on the field for 7 defensive snaps and one special teams snap.

 

[Mulli]

Michael Floyd: 6 offensive snaps.
Stewart Bradley: 0 defensive snaps, 18 special teams snaps.
Rob Housler: 36 total snaps, 13 special teams snaps.

Dan Williams was only on the field for 7 defensive snaps and one special teams snap.

Dan Williams:his fault or the scheme for the Pats? Seemed to play well vs Seahawks

 

[Shane]

Dan Williams:his fault or the scheme for the Pats? Seemed to play well vs Seahawks

If you read Urban he specifically said that Williams and Carter didn't get many snaps due to scheme Horton wanted to employ against the Pats. Which worked. So I could care less how many snaps they got.

 

[az1965]

Just like Housler saved a TD last week. He had a huge key catch on a TD drive this week. I'll take it!

Not enough for a 3rd round pick in his second year. what else has he done? Dropped key passes? Lost a fumble last year? These are the only stats he has so far.

 

[az1965]

I was wrong about Quentin Groves, though. Don't know what happened in finally finding a role in the Cards defense, or being put in a position to succeed, or just not having to be The Man, but he's been a great contributor. He could still take Schofield's job--and I say that as a huge Schofield fan since we drafted him.

I think we should make this move and see if we get anything out of that position since Schofield has been non-existent. We will need to draft a replacement next year unless Groves continues to improve and show he is the guy.

 

[Chopper0080]

Dan Williams:his fault or the scheme for the Pats? Seemed to play well vs Seahawks

That is why you don't spend first round picks on defense that won't play in your nickel scheme.

Same goes on offense. IF they don't pay on 3rd down, don't draft them in the first round.

 

[kerouac9]

Dan Williams:his fault or the scheme for the Pats? Seemed to play well vs Seahawks

The scheme. We played a bunch of 2 DL sets with Dockett and Campbell. Neither of the NTs were on the field for but a handful of plays. I think it's a credit to the run-into-a-brick-wall offensive game plan that those two guys were on the sideline enough to stay fresh for four quarters--and a credit to John Lott.