Hawks @ Suns 2-2-19

[ArizonaSportsFan]

All this Ayton bashing and riding Igor's jock is a joke. What has Igor done as a head coach to earn this loyalty? You aren't getting rid of Ayton anytime soon and you can't change the past. It's Igor's responsibly to develop Ayton and put him a position to succeed. It's his job to win games with what he has, and he's failing consistently.

No one is riding Igor's jock. Some may see things differently than you do. That's fine. I see young players making dumb mistakes. They are young. They don't box out. They play pretty good defense until the ball goes up. The offense is not the issue with this team. Allowing 15+ more shots per game is absolutely the issue. That is a player issue. An effort issue.

 

[Finito]

17 of the last 19

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns bright spot for me is the play of Bridges and Jackson who had 20 and 25 points respectively.

Do not trade either of those two players.

 

[Evil Ash]

No one is riding Igor's jock. Some may see things differently than you do. That's fine. I see young players making dumb mistakes. They are young. They don't box out. They play pretty good defense until the ball goes up. The offense is not the issue with this team. Allowing 15+ more shots per game is absolutely the issue. That is a player issue. An effort issue.

You can't be this bad of a team without several factors at play. The roster is a mess that goes on our former GM (no PG, no PF, no notable vets). The coaching is questionable at times but the first factor (bad roster) affects this to the point I'm not sure how fairly you can judge how well he's doing. Then the players have to do their jobs, coaches shouldn't need to coach basic things like hustling and boxing out.

Its a mess from top to bottom with plenty of blame to go around

 

[1tinsoldier]

"effort is a player issue" for an individual game
while effort over the period of a week, a month, a 10 game losing streak, and over an 11 of 43 record
despite trying many different line-ups and mixes of rookies and vets
is a coaching issue

like a cold day is a weather issue
and breaking high temp records every year is a global warming issue

 

[Evil Ash]

"effort is a player issue" for an individual game
while effort over the period of a week, a month, a 10 game losing streak, and over an 11 of 43 record
despite trying many different line-ups and mixes of rookies and vets
is a coaching issue

like a cold day is a weather issue
and breaking high temp records every year is a global warming issue

Players that need to be taught how to hustle need to be off the roster immediately. No coach should make you gutless

 

[1tinsoldier]

JJ improved the 2nd half of last season
regressed significantly this season but is getting his act together the past couple of weeks
some say he's not bright. i disagree
i think he's got better bball instincts and more drive than most of the suns players
but he's immature and when he gets overly excited he makes hasty decisions

i've noticed the correlation between him making his outside shots and his form
he's starting to show signs that he can correct his form
(but his free-throw shooting is troubling)

i think/hope his stock is rising

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oubre did some good things in this game but going 5 for 16 with just 1 of 7 from the 3 point line is a concern. Picking up that T is a concern. But what really bugs me is his shot was off, he took 16 of them anyway and he didn't have a single assist. That's just wrong.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Players that need to be taught how to hustle need to be off the roster immediately. No coach should make you gutless

well, our #1 pick is 20 and he needs to be taught how to hustle
but i think part of it is he doesn't know what he should be doing
and neither does his coach

his coach tells him the priority is not to foul
and he doesn't have enough experience to go at guys without fouling
and to go hard at the basket without fouling or losing the ball

Ayton doesn't just need a better coach
he needs a better than average coach
and a better than average point guard
most, including myself, believe he'll be worth that kind of investment

 

[Evil Ash]

Oubre did some good things in this game but going 5 for 16 with just 1 of 7 from the 3 point line is a concern. Picking up that T is a concern. But what really bugs me is his shot was off, he took 16 of them anyway and he didn't have a single assist. That's just wrong.

Oubre and Josh Jackson are very similar. Good work ethic, good but somewhat inconsistent D, and low Bball IQs

 

[1tinsoldier]

JJ and Oubre are driven by their emotions and they let it get the better of them
but i wouldn't call it a low bb IQ issue
like a Chriss. or even TJ

for example
JJ has thrown some of the best passes this season
and he recovers quickly after making a mistake
and they both know when to turn up the heat on offense and defense
their talent just doesn't match their intentions yet

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oubre and Josh Jackson are very similar. Good work ethic, good but somewhat inconsistent D, and low Bball IQs

Jackson is an enigma, in a lot of ways he seems to have a high BB IQ and then he turns around and does something incredibly stupid. But he's a team player and Oubre is not, that's the big difference between the two IMO.

 

[Hoop Head]

Honestly, I think the talent on the team sans PG is good enough to challenge for an eighth seed in the playoffs, but the team looks completely disoriented game in and game out.

That is ridiculous. I would be shocked if anyone here or anywhere would look at our roster and say they should be competing for a playoff spot and acknowledge they don't have a competent PG but apparently that isn't an issue. Popovich couldn't coach this roster to the 8th seed. Is this what it comes to now to bash Igor? Saying that he is keeping us from being a playoff team alone, not lacking a quality PG and PF but simply how he calls plays and manages the rotation is keeping us from being over 500 right now? And people want to say those that stand up for Igor are riding his jock, what exactly should this be considered because it's not reality.

 

[Hoop Head]

well, our #1 pick is 20 and he needs to be taught how to hustle
but i think part of it is he doesn't know what he should be doing
and neither does his coach

his coach tells him the priority is not to foul
and he doesn't have enough experience to go at guys without fouling
and to go hard at the basket without fouling or losing the ball

Ayton doesn't just need a better coach
he needs a better than average coach
and a better than average point guard
most, including myself, believe he'll be worth that kind of investment

Why is it that our #1 pick needs to be taught how to hustle? Why doesn't our #10 pick need to be taught to hustle also? Seems like the #1 pick should be farther along than the #10 so what's the issue?

Where have you read that Igor told Ayton not to foul and to play timid? I've heard him talk about how Ayton needs to be more assertive and aggressive quite a few times but have never heard the opposite. So what's your source on that? If you are going to say that the coach has told Ayton not to do something, or to do something, you could share where you learned that information because you're the only one making that claim. It's easy to bash someone when you make up things for them to be guilty of, isn't it?

 

[sunsfan88]

Jackson is an enigma, in a lot of ways he seems to have a high BB IQ and then he turns around and does something incredibly stupid. But he's a team player and Oubre is not, that's the big difference between the two IMO.

I don’t think that’s fair to say because both have very similar playing styles. Oubre isn’t as awful a shooter (both 3pt and FT line) as Jackson but Jackson is also the better defender between the two.

If the tech is the issue, Jackson has picked up plenty of techs in his 2 years with the Suns at very bad and momentum changing times in games.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t think that’s fair to say because both have very similar playing styles. Oubre isn’t as awful a shooter (both 3pt and FT line) as Jackson but Jackson is also the better defender between the two.

If the tech is the issue, Jackson has picked up plenty of techs in his 2 years with the Suns at very bad and momentum changing times in games.

The tech is an issue as are Jackson's. But that wasn't my point. I find it inexcusable that a player, especially not a low post center, could take 16 shots, miss 10 of them and not pick up a single assist. It seems to me that everybody out there is trying to play team ball but I see Oubre time and again elect to force a shot instead of hitting an open teammate and he does the same on fast breaks too. He and Jackson are alike in many ways but not in this single area.

 

[Carolinacacti]

The tech is an issue as are Jackson's. But that wasn't my point. I find it inexcusable that a player, especially not a low post center, could take 16 shots, miss 10 of them and not pick up a single assist. It seems to me that everybody out there is trying to play team ball but I see Oubre time and again elect to force a shot instead of hitting an open teammate and he does the same on fast breaks too. He and Jackson are alike in many ways but not in this single area.

Oubre's looking for a contract period.

 

[BC867]

Oubre's looking for a contract period.

That sounds right. But on our putrid roster, right now he's a hero.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oubre's looking for a contract period.

Sure he is and who could blame him? But that's not what this is. Kelly has averaged under an assist a game and even if you adjust and use PER 36, he's still only averaging 1.3 assists per game. Carmelo gets ripped here and elsewhere (and rightly so) for being an inefficient scorer with a me first attitude on the court. Oubre is less efficient and he averages close to a third as many assists as Melo did for his career.

I'm not suggesting we should give up on him but it's tough to teach a team to play team ball when one person is playing like Oubre is. Somehow they need to get through to him and teach him that giving up your own shot so that someone else can have a better shot is a good thing. I was aware of the selfish label before we traded for him but I was hoping that away from the influence of a few Wizards he might see value in changing the way he plays. It's clear that hasn't happened yet.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Why is it that our #1 pick needs to be taught how to hustle? Why doesn't our #10 pick need to be taught to hustle also? Seems like the #1 pick should be farther along than the #10 so what's the issue?

there you go again, loosing your poop in defense of the coach.

it's hard to reason with someone who believes a player's draft order is indicative of their degree of hustle

Where have you read that Igor told Ayton not to foul and to play timid? I've heard him talk about how Ayton needs to be more assertive and aggressive quite a few times but have never heard the opposite.

first, regarding me saying Igor told Ayton to "play timid" -- go poop yourself troll!

i've posted before about Igor mentioning "not fouling" 3 times in the first minute of a post game interview and that his argument with Bridges was when he got his 5th foul (but should have been high-fived for being the only one playing hard). Also, clearly, Ayton is being instructed to just hold his hands straight up like a robot when defending the paint (if you can call that defending)

as i said. Ayton is confused and so is Igor. yes, he's absolutely telling his players to be more aggressive (and NOT at the same time)

It's easy to bash someone when you make up things for them to be guilty of, isn't it?

again, i'll ask you to stop trolling me with your whining and annoying homer-ism

 

[Dr. Jones]

You lose by 6 and miss 8 free throws...... C'mon guys. What were we? 56% from the stripe?

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

You lose by 6 and miss 8 free throws...... C'mon guys. What were we? 56% from the stripe?

The worst was when Jackson got fouled on a three and missed ALL THREE FREE THROWS!

 

[1tinsoldier]

speaking of kissing up to coach
someone writes a yahoo article on Luke Walton's locker-room skirmish that includes:

"Hope afterward among players and coaches was that this helped cleanse issues within the team."

and of the combatants:
"McGee scored just nine points in 10 minutes on Saturday, and Beasley scored just six points in seven minutes. Stephenson finished with 10 points in 24 minutes."

"just?"
seems like productive minutes to me

looks like the Suns aren't the only team with sycophants working hard to shield their coach from criticism

 

[leclerc]

The worst was at the end of the game when Booker had the break away layup, it was a difficult shot and he missed it, the ball hit the floor. I mean come on, where the hell is the spirit in these chumps? You chase after the ball when it's 1 minute left in the game. Not only that, they stood around and watched the Hawks get an easy basket in the paint seconds later. Coach called a time out. He should have subbed everyone out right then and there and let the end of the bench guys play the last 1-2 minutes. What a bunch of losers.



I have the guy on ignore (I don't need to read the same post three times every day in multiple threads) but here I guess you can hang it on the coach, even though honestly, if you're that lousy in competitive spirit that you stand and scratch your butt instead of go frigging score the basket then you don't need a coach, you need to just go into selling hot dogs or something. Lazy kids.

 

[leclerc]

Regarding Jackson versus Oubre I'd much rather have Jackson. I like Oubre also but I'd rather have Jackson, Bridges, Booker and Ayton going forward. Okobo and Melton should be extended so we can maybe use one or two in the rotation somewhere. They're just rookies. I am pleased with what they have shown so far. Maybe not all stars, but they could very well turn into decent starters or rotation players. Melton has great defense and Okobo is maybe a bit better offensively. Both need to keep working on distributing the ball.