Herb Sendek thread

[TJ]

Everything is accurate except for last statement. ASU IS a step up from Dayton, but Archie isn't going to coach against his brother, so end of story.

In what way? I don't think you quite understand how bad Sendek devalued the program. Dayton has significantly more fan support as evidenced by averaging more than double ASU's attendance per game (12,500 versus 6,000), and much more recent tournament success. And don't tell me it's the appeal of the conference as the PAC-12, with the exception of Arizona, UCLA, Utah, and Oregon, there is no appeal whatsoever.

I guess if you think the Curtain of Distraction adds appeal, then sure, but right now, ASU is not viewed around the nation as a coveted basketball job.

 

[Dback Jon]

In what way? I don't think you quite understand how bad Sendek devalued the program. Dayton has significantly more fan support as evidenced by averaging more than double ASU's attendance per game (12,500 versus 6,000), and much more recent tournament success.

I guess if you think the Curtain of Distraction adds appeal, then sure, but right now, ASU is not viewed around the nation as a coveted basketball job.

Pac 12 job, major city, lots of Potential. Dayton is limited. A-10. Unless Dayton gets into the Big East, ASU would be a step up.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Pac 12 job, major city, lots of Potential. Dayton is limited. A-10. Unless Dayton gets into the Big East, ASU would be a step up.

ASU has a better chance of hiring Greg Popovich than Arch.

 

[TJ]

Pac 12 job, major city, lots of Potential. Dayton is limited. A-10. Unless Dayton gets into the Big East, ASU would be a step up.

Like I said, the PAC-12 is not as appealing as people think until it routinely gets more than 3-4 teams in the tourney per season. Hell, Gonzaga and SDSU are more prestigious than all PAC schools except for Arizona and UCLA.

Major city means absolutely nothing in terms of appeal. If that's the case, why aren't the New York schools doing anything of significance? Why isn't USC a big program? The best teams are in Madison, Durham, Chapel Hill, Spokane, Charlottesville, Lexington, Tucson, etc.

Whomever takes over at ASU has a long road ahead of him to not only win the fans over, but to get recruits, win ball games, and give the university a reason to upgrade WFA or get a whole new arena entirely.

 

[Dback Jon]

ASU has a better chance of hiring Greg Popovich than Arch.

Not denying that. But that is as much because of Sean in Tucson than anything else.

 

[Dback Jon]

Like I said, the PAC-12 is not as appealing as people think until it routinely gets more than 3-4 teams in the tourney per season. Hell, Gonzaga and SDSU are more prestigious than all PAC schools except for Arizona and UCLA.

Major city means absolutely nothing in terms of appeal. If that's the case, why aren't the New York schools doing anything of significance? Why isn't USC a big program? The best teams are in Madison, Durham, Chapel Hill, Spokane, Charlottesville, Lexington, Tucson, etc.

Whomever takes over at ASU has a long road ahead of him to not only win the fans over, but to get recruits, win ball games, and give the university a reason to upgrade WFA or get a whole new arena entirely.

UA fans

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Not denying that. But that is as much because of Sean in Tucson than anything else.

And that he's been approached by better programs than ASU in the past and has said no. He's waiting on a Texas or Arizona or Ohio State. Something with elite potential but not psychotic expectations.

ASU not a terrible job TJ makes it out to be (not a great one either) but it's below Archie.

 

[TJ]

UA fans

This has nothing to do with what team I root for; it's the reality of the situation. When Macovic was at UofA, I knew our football team had as much value as the gum on the bottom of my shoe.

If we're talking about replacing Todd Graham, then I'd show you guys more optimism, but Sendek made that team/situation very unappealing.

 

[FArting]

I interpreted his post as going after a guy like these guys who was a good college player and had at least a stint in the NBA - not these 4 guys speciically (but I could be wrong).

This is what I was trying to say.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Whomever takes over at ASU has a long road ahead of him to not only win the fans over, but to get recruits, win ball games, and give the university a reason to upgrade WFA or get a whole new arena entirely.

Herb was just boring and an underachieving disappointment, but he had a winning record and some tourney appearances.

With new leadership in place, hopefully we can get a respectable head coach that can recruit. ASU is an attractive place for athletes, but we need to show a commitment to basketball like never before in order to instill some confidence in top players around the country, IMHO.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

ASU is not viewed around the nation as a coveted basketball job.

You've said this several ways in several posts now.

How it is viewed around the nation is actually quite irrelevant. As you should know, it just takes one coach who wants the job/challenge to create a successful program in the desert.

ASU is far more appealing now than UofA was decades ago when Lute Olson left a successful Iowa program to coach the then-dismal Wildcats.

Lute replaced a coach with the worst record in UofA's history (4-24) whose team had just set a record for most losses in PAC-10 play (going 1-17).

 

[TJ]

You've said this several ways in several posts now.



How it is viewed around the nation is actually quite irrelevant. As you should know, it just takes one coach who wants the job/challenge to create a successful program in the desert.



ASU is far more appealing now than UofA was decades ago when Lute Olson left a successful Iowa program to coach the then-dismal Wildcats.



Lute replaced a coach with the worst record in UofA's history (4-24) whose team had just set a record for most losses in PAC-10 play (going 1-17).

Never said it was impossible, just that there's an uphill road to climb considering finances, perception, facilities, etc.

The current crop of candidates is rather underwhelming and are incomparable to Lute Olson back in the early 80s. More power to you if you think the second coming of Lute is coming to Tempe, but I doubt it.

I guess the change was needed to reignite the fan base, but honestly, is there anyone better than Sendek available?

 

[ozzfloyd]

You've said this several ways in several posts now.

How it is viewed around the nation is actually quite irrelevant. As you should know, it just takes one coach who wants the job/challenge to create a successful program in the desert.

ASU is far more appealing now than UofA was decades ago when Lute Olson left a successful Iowa program to coach the then-dismal Wildcats.

Lute replaced a coach with the worst record in UofA's history (4-24) whose team had just set a record for most losses in PAC-10 play (going 1-17).

We hear this every time ASU basketball is looking to replace their head man. Good luck guys.

 

[Phrazbit]

Even as a fellow Wildcat, I feel like you're arguing 2 sides of the coin here TJ. Not sure how you can claim that they're going to have a hard time finding a good coach because Herb "devalued" the program so severely, yet at the same time say they should have kept him. If he was THAT bad then dumping him was a necessity.

But, IMO he was not THAT bad, he just wasn't any good and I think the program is in roughly the same shape it has been for a while now, he certainly was not worse than the couple of guys the preceded him.

Its a complicated issue for ASU, on the balance Herb had 9 mediocre seasons by ASU standards, which are pretty low, but he never really hit rock bottom like previous coaches have. I don't think firing Herb was wrong, because they didn't really lose anything of value, but there is a good chance the next guy is going to be worse. Its a tough hire, given the lack of fan support and the gigantic shadow cast by UofA, the only coaches that will take the job are retreads or a shot in the dark.

If I'm ASU I shoot the moon. Hire someone who has never been a D-1 coach before, maybe a former player, maybe a guy killing it in a smaller conference/division. See if you can find a diamond in the rough. Because I don't think bringing in a dude like Capel will help anything, he looks like a poor man's Herb.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

ASU right now is a decent job. The conference outside of UA is down or vulnerable.

That being said, Capel ain't the guy to elevate ASU. He's a one trick pony just like Herb.

 

[TJ]

Even as a fellow Wildcat, I feel like you're arguing 2 sides of the coin here TJ. Not sure how you can claim that they're going to have a hard time finding a good coach because Herb "devalued" the program so severely, yet at the same time say they should have kept him. If he was THAT bad then dumping him was a necessity.

But, IMO he was not THAT bad, he just wasn't any good and I think the program is in roughly the same shape it has been for a while now, he certainly was not worse than the couple of guys the preceded him.

Its a complicated issue for ASU, on the balance Herb had 9 mediocre seasons by ASU standards, which are pretty low, but he never really hit rock bottom like previous coaches have. I don't think firing Herb was wrong, because they didn't really lose anything of value, but there is a good chance the next guy is going to be worse. Its a tough hire, given the lack of fan support and the gigantic shadow cast by UofA, the only coaches that will take the job are retreads or a shot in the dark.

If I'm ASU I shoot the moon. Hire someone who has never been a D-1 coach before, maybe a former player, maybe a guy killing it in a smaller conference/division. See if you can find a diamond in the rough. Because I don't think bringing in a dude like Capel will help anything, he looks like a poor man's Herb.

I'm saying that the pickings are slim at the moment and that it may have been in the best interest to keep him for another season. Like you said, there's a good chance that the next hire will be worse. Capel has an elite 8 under his belt, but comes with baggage from OU.

No, Sendek wasn't awful, but by maintaining steady mediocrity for 9 seasons while watching its rival successfully transition is not adding value or promise to the program.

 

[HooverDam]

but honestly, is there anyone better than Sendek available?

Yes, absolutely. One of the guys hired at a major program this year will end up with a better career than Herb Sendek. That is almost a certainty, the odds would suggest. The question is, does ASU land that guy, or does he go somewhere else?

it may have been in the best interest to keep him for another season.

If you're going to make a change anyway, then make it. ASU has a lot of really high caliber recruits coming out of Maricopa County in the coming years, and a major overhaul of their arena on the horizon. They need to set themselves up to capitalize on those things ASAP.

 

[TRW]

This move made sense BEFORE the extension. After giving him another year they might as well have bitten the bullet and kept him on for next year at least.

Just stupid to pay 2 salaries for the next 2 years and, most likely, experience the same result (or even worse).

He did as good as anyone with the AD situation and ASU's "lower" status than a "big" program.

This makes no sense to me in light of the extension.

 

[Russ Smith]

He probably wouldn't take the job but they ought to go after Brad Underwood from Stephen F AUstin, he's on lots of peoples up and coming coaches lists. It sounds like he's possibly even going to be a candidate at Texas if Barnes gets fired.


That's the type of coach they need to target, they need to find a coach who looks promising but hasn't quite hit the bigtime yet so he establishes himself, at ASU and then hopefully decides to stay.

That's why I like Turner too, his record at UCI isn't all that compelling but almost nobody can win at a school like that, the way his teams play suggest he knows what he's doing.

 

[HooverDam]

This move made sense BEFORE the extension. After giving him another year they might as well have bitten the bullet and kept him on for next year at least.

Just stupid to pay 2 salaries for the next 2 years and, most likely, experience the same result (or even worse).

He did as good as anyone with the AD situation and ASU's "lower" status than a "big" program.

This makes no sense to me in light of the extension.

You don't keep someone just because you made a previous mistake to extend them.

Anderson's statement said that donors stepped up and paid for the buy out, so no need to worry about it.

All we need to hope for now is that ASU makes the right hire.

He probably wouldn't take the job but they ought to go after Brad Underwood from Stephen F AUstin, he's on lots of peoples up and coming coaches lists. It sounds like he's possibly even going to be a candidate at Texas if Barnes gets fired.


That's the type of coach they need to target, they need to find a coach who looks promising but hasn't quite hit the bigtime yet so he establishes himself, at ASU and then hopefully decides to stay.

That's why I like Turner too, his record at UCI isn't all that compelling but almost nobody can win at a school like that, the way his teams play suggest he knows what he's doing.

Agreed.

 

[Lefty]

I think ASU should go after Leon Rice at Boise State. You don't find many people winning at Boise and he has been since he got there. He is young and is from the west. ASU has gone with coaches from bigger schools in the past and it has not worked out great, some success but not continuous. What so they have to lose? Its not like expectations are high. I also think whoever does come in, will benefit with four starters back.

 

[overseascardfan]

Haller was on 12 News Sports and threw out Capel & Pastner which some of you already mentioned.

Who are the hot small school coaches out there? I'm hoping they pass on Howland, Capel & Pastner although all 3 of those guys can recruit. Haller thinks coach will be named soon for recruiting purposes.

 

[Absolute Zero]

They are saying here that its Capel's job if he wants it
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...arizona-state-sun-devils-men-basketball-coach

 

[Mainstreet]

This move made sense BEFORE the extension. After giving him another year they might as well have bitten the bullet and kept him on for next year at least.

Just stupid to pay 2 salaries for the next 2 years and, most likely, experience the same result (or even worse).

He did as good as anyone with the AD situation and ASU's "lower" status than a "big" program.

This makes no sense to me in light of the extension.

Maybe the Sun Devils see a coach they want that is available now who might not be available in another year. It's hard to know what goes on behind closed doors. I would hope the Sun Devils did not fire Sendek without a plan.

 

[overseascardfan]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...tes-to-be-next-asu-basketball-coach/70381600/

I like Chris Mack but I doubt he leaves Xavier. Lavin is intriguing as he really is a slick salesman but I think it will end up being Capel.

I wonder if Markus Howard's decommitment contributed to Sendek being fired or maybe he saw the writing on the wall.