Heroes and Goats (Abbreviated)

[Krangodnzr]

I know what you are saying, but they aren't the same thing.

No, you can't say this defense is good just because they stomped a super garbage Jets offense. The D is still an unknown quantity.

Yes, you can criticize Hump based on his performance because he has a long history of such performances. He's a known quantity.

Good on Hump for his performance vs the Jets. He he can line up against Bryce Huff and Jordan Jenkins all year he'll be elite. Let's see how he does vs Aldon Smith.

Hump is a solid NFL tackle. Like @Chopper0080 said in another one of the anti-Humphries rants, he is nowhere close to the worse LT the Cardinals have had in their time in Arizona...he is actually one of the best. Can we just be happy that we have a decent LT locked up long term and the OL as a whole is playing reasonably well?

Murray had YEARS in the pocket this past weekend. Very few plays did he actually have to get rid of the ball quickly.

As far as the defense goes, it's pretty much a league average defense, that should be playing a bit above average in my opinion. There is enough talent to expect a few more turnovers and less wide open receivers streaking across the field.

 

[BritCard]

Hump is a solid NFL tackle. Like @Chopper0080 said in another one of the anti-Humphries rants, he is nowhere close to the worse LT the Cardinals have had in their time in Arizona...he is actually one of the best. Can we just be happy that we have a decent LT locked up long term and the OL as a whole is playing reasonably well?

Murray had YEARS in the pocket this past weekend. Very few plays did he actually have to get rid of the ball quickly.

As far as the defense goes, it's pretty much a league average defense, that should be playing a bit above average in my opinion. There is enough talent to expect a few more turnovers and less wide open receivers streaking across the field.

I didn't say anything. I was talking about the D and he brought up Hump.

 

[Finito]

I didn't say anything. I was talking about the D and he brought up Hump.

you just started watching football huh

 

[dreamcastrocks]

you just started watching football huh

Borderline. Keep it civil.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Borderline. Keep it civil.

To finito's point he did admit he just started watching American football 8 years ago. I thought that's what he was talking about?

 

[Krangodnzr]

To finito's point he did admit he just started watching American football 8 years ago. I thought that's what he was talking about?

That may explain why he thinks Hump is so bad.

He never watched D'Anthony Baptiste. That dude was sooooooo bad. Worst LT I've ever seen.

 

[TheCardFan]

Hump is averaging top 6 LT money...he is not "good" or "solid". He isn't the worst LT we have ever had but I would argue he might be based on contract value vs performance.

Love the guys attitude though....he seems like an awesome person.

FYI- Baptiste was making 700k.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Hump is averaging top 6 LT money...he is not "good" or "solid". He isn't the worst LT we have ever had but I would argue he might be based on contract value vs performance.

Love the guys attitude though....he seems like an awesome person.

FYI- Baptiste was making 700k.

Humphries is a decent LT. There is no metric that states otherwise.

Last year every run to the left side of the formation averaged more yards, and that's considering the TE lines up over the strongide.

If you want to believe the detritus that is PFF, Humphries gave up 2 sacks, which over the course of 16 games is good.

So he gave up 2 sacks and the running game averaged SIX YARDS PER carry behind Humphries. Yeah that sucks!

 

[BritCard]

That may explain why he thinks Hump is so bad.

He never watched D'Anthony Baptiste. That dude was sooooooo bad. Worst LT I've ever seen.

Does it matter? Can you really grade your own players against the terrible players you had before? Surely the measure of talent is how he compares to the rest of the league?

I admit Hump is much better than anyone we had recently but also he's not lived up to his draft position and is still in the bottom 3rd of NFL LT's.

 

[TheCardFan]

Humphries is a decent LT. There is no metric that states otherwise.

Don't need a metric...I just watch him play.

You are ok with paying a "decent" LT top 6 LT money? I am not but we can agree to disagree.

 

[ReasonableMan]

Hump is averaging top 6 LT money...he is not "good" or "solid". He isn't the worst LT we have ever had but I would argue he might be based on contract value vs performance.

Love the guys attitude though....he seems like an awesome person.

FYI- Baptiste was making 700k.

Levi Brown

 

[TheCardFan]

Levi Brown

That is a very good comparison.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Don't need a metric...I just watch him play.

You are ok with paying a "decent" LT top 6 LT money? I am not but we can agree to disagree.

As like 100 other posters have demonstrated, next year Humphries probably will be the tenth highest paid. Tunsil is making like $7 million more per year. He's hardly the top of the market.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Levi Brown

Brown was significantly better than Baptiste.

Brown was actually middle of the pack for Cardinal LTs.

The guy I thought that was underrated was LJ Shelton. He was solid.

 

[Chopper0080]

Does it matter? Can you really grade your own players against the terrible players you had before? Surely the measure of talent is how he compares to the rest of the league?

I admit Hump is much better than anyone we had recently but also he's not lived up to his draft position and is still in the bottom 3rd of NFL LT's.

12 OTs worse than The Captain

Mekhi Becton
Austin Jackson
Jonah Williams
Jedrick Wills
Cam Robinson
Garrett Bolles
Kolton Miller
Sam Tevi
Andrew Thomas
Andre Dillard
Geron Christian Sr.
Riley Reiff
Donovan Smith

ooops...clearly 13 worse. So, the assertion that The Captain is one of the bottom 3rd is just false. And this isn't getting into the Charles Leno, Dion Dawkins, Russell Okung, Anthony Castanzo, or Andrew Whitworth debates. Also, not factoring in all of the backup LTs playing.

 

[Krangodnzr]

12 OTs worse than The Captain

Mekhi Becton
Austin Jackson
Jonah Williams
Jedrick Wills
Cam Robinson
Garrett Bolles
Kolton Miller
Sam Tevi
Andrew Thomas
Andre Dillard
Geron Christian Sr.
Riley Reiff
Donovan Smith

ooops...clearly 13 worse. So, the assertion that The Captain is one of the bottom 3rd is just false. And this isn't getting into the Charles Leno, Dion Dawkins, Russell Okung, Anthony Castanzo, or Andrew Whitworth debates. Also, not factoring in all of the backup LTs playing.

It's just such a maddeningly awful take that Humphries is bottom tier.

Outside of Lomas Brown, he's the best LT the Cardinals have had since I've watched the team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's just such a maddeningly awful take that Humphries is bottom tier.

Outside of Lomas Brown, he's the best LT the Cardinals have had since I've watched the team.

you keep bringing up previous Cardinals LT being awful as if that’s a way to compare Hump to the tackles in the league now. It’s completely immaterial to how good Hump actually is because measuring someone against complete and utter crap in no way speaks to how they measure as a player overall. It only says they’re not as bad as complete and utter crap.

if you want to do backflips over that, more power to you.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

you keep bringing up previous Cardinals LT being awful as if that’s a way to compare Hump to the tackles in the league now. It’s completely immaterial to how good Hump actually is because measuring someone against complete and utter crap in no way speaks to how they measure as a player overall. It only says they’re not as bad as complete and utter crap.

if you want to do backflips over that, more power to you.

While I agree with what you posted, I am not sure I agree with the sentiment. I think Hump is a top 16 tackle in the league at worst.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

While I agree with what you posted, I am not sure I agree with the sentiment. I think Hump is a top 16 tackle in the league at worst.

Yep. We have far more pressing needs on this team than trying to upgrade LT.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

That is a very good comparison.

Get outta here.

 

[Finito]

Does it matter? Can you really grade your own players against the terrible players you had before? Surely the measure of talent is how he compares to the rest of the league?

I admit Hump is much better than anyone we had recently but also he's not lived up to his draft position and is still in the bottom 3rd of NFL LT's.

he was the 24th pick in the draft. Do me a favor go back and give me the last 10 guys drafted 24th and let me know how many of them are starters. I’ll wait

 

[Solar7]

he was the 24th pick in the draft. Do me a favor go back and give me the last 10 guys drafted 24th and let me know how many of them are starters. I’ll wait

Not him, but 8/10, lol.

Cesar Ruiz - New Orleans (Y)
Josh Jacobs - Raiders (Y)
DJ Moore - Carolina (Y)
Gareon Conley - Raiders - Texans (Y - but on IR)
William Jackson - Cincy - (Y)
Humphries - Arizona - (Y)
Darqueeze Dennard - Cincy - Atlanta (N - IR)
Bjoern Werner - Indy - (N)
David DeCastro - Pittsburgh - (Y)
Cameron Jordan - NO - (Y)

 

[Krangodnzr]

you keep bringing up previous Cardinals LT being awful as if that’s a way to compare Hump to the tackles in the league now. It’s completely immaterial to how good Hump actually is because measuring someone against complete and utter crap in no way speaks to how they measure as a player overall. It only says they’re not as bad as complete and utter crap.

if you want to do backflips over that, more power to you.

The point is the Cardinals finally have a league average starter at LT. Finally. And he occasionally plays like a really good one.

 

[BritCard]

12 OTs worse than The Captain

Mekhi Becton - rookie
Austin Jackson - rookie
Jonah Williams - rookie
Jedrick Wills - rookie
Cam Robinson - Yes
Garrett Bolles - No
Kolton Miller - No
Sam Tevi - Yes
Andrew Thomas - rookie
Andre Dillard - rookie
Geron Christian Sr. - rookie
Riley Reiff - no
Donovan Smith - Same level

ooops...clearly 13 worse. So, the assertion that The Captain is one of the bottom 3rd is just false. And this isn't getting into the Charles Leno, Dion Dawkins, Russell Okung, Anthony Castanzo, or Andrew Whitworth debates. Also, not factoring in all of the backup LTs playing.

Mekhi Becton - rookie
Austin Jackson - rookie
Jonah Williams - effectively a rookie
Jedrick Wills - rookie
Cam Robinson - Yes
Garrett Bolles - At best same level, but Bolles has allowed no sacks and only 2 penalties this year. So probably not.
Kolton Miller - Miller is massively improved. 0 sacks allowed and only 2 pens so far.
Sam Tevi - Yes
Andrew Thomas - rookie
Andre Dillard - Effectively a rookie, barely played
Geron Christian Sr. - First starts
Riley Reiff - Same level at best - 0 penalties, 0 sacks this year
Donovan Smith - Same level

So lets discount the rookies, most of which are starting and are waaaaay better than Hump was at he same stage. Even Geron Christian is better than Hump in his 2nd year so far. So these aren't like for like comparisons.

Of those guys you listed I think it's fair to say at the very least most fans based on age and what they have shown so far would take Becton, Williams, Wills and Dillard (excluding injury problems) in a swap for Hump. Guys already well above where Hump was at the same stage and not far off him now.

What you have left from Hump's peers are. Cam Robinson, Sam Tevi and Donovan Smith that are definitely no better than Hump. Reiff and Bolles are debatable but lets be generous and say the same level.

So easily a bottom 3rd vet tackle at least. Might just push him out if you want to use absolutes and count rookies in their 5th games.

 

[BritCard]

Not him, but 8/10, lol.

Cesar Ruiz - New Orleans (Y)
Josh Jacobs - Raiders (Y)
DJ Moore - Carolina (Y)
Gareon Conley - Raiders - Texans (Y - but on IR)
William Jackson - Cincy - (Y)
Humphries - Arizona - (Y)
Darqueeze Dennard - Cincy - Atlanta (N - IR)
Bjoern Werner - Indy - (N)
David DeCastro - Pittsburgh - (Y)
Cameron Jordan - NO - (Y)

Oooof. That backfired.

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