Holliday not sure AZ is in the Cards

Jttsaz

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Cardinals | Holliday Talks Continue, But He'll Wait - posted at KFFL (http://nfl.kffl.com)
6:27 PT: Darren Urban reports for the East Valley Tribune the Arizona Cardinals continued serious contract negotiations with free agent DE Vonnie Holliday (Packers) on Friday. They traded multiple contract proposals with his agent over the past couple of days. Holliday is apparently unsure whether he wants to come to Arizona. He reportedly has decided to wait for DE Hugh Douglas’ free agent situation to be resolved.


I know there was some speculation about this...apparently he has been jerkin the Cardinals chain the past few days...Never had an real intention to play here...
 

Mrospi

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When I read this release it really ticked me off...... It sounds like he is using us just as a last resort and a someone to bid up the offer to another team.... drop his offer and leave him dangling out there.....We are negotiating in good faith, he is not.......... Not the type of player we want here.... should want to be here.....
 

JeffGollin

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drop his offer and leave him dangling out there.....We are negotiating in good faith, he is not.......... Not the type of player we want here.... should want to be here.....
Whoah! Slow down, Sparky.

It may have nothing to do with not wanting to play here and everything to do about money. (Remember money? It's why most players opt for free agency).

Seattle apparently is losing its front-runner status with regard to Hugh Douglas (Jacksonville's made a higher late bid). Holliday sees an opportunity to jack Seattles' price up if they decide they're desperate. If you saw an opportunity to make more money, wouldn't you at least pursue it?

Now - I agree that the Cards should not allow themselves to be jerked around. But that doesn't mean writing Holliday off altogether or walking away from the deal.

What Graves may want to do is to give Holliday 24 - 48 hours to (a) accept, (b) reject or (c) counter the Cardinals offer. Otherwise it's off the table and THEN the Cards should walk away.
 

pinnacle

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I do not think driving the price up for holliday is a bad thing if he does sign with seattle..I would not want to be stuck with him at an above market price..but if he really wants seattle and they are desperate..they might overpay for him..since seattle is in our division..drive it up!
 

Skkorpion

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The overwhelming weight of rumor and opinion from both cities, Seattle and Phoenix, appears to support the theory that Vonnie Holliday really does not want to play in Phoenix at all.

Almost a week ago, on KDUS radio, Bob Kemp expressed the opinion that Vonnie was blowing smoke up our collective asses at his press coinference here.

Ian Allen, a Seattle resident, and publisher of Fantasy Football Index,tells me his sources tell him Holliday wants to be a Seahawk and probably will be now that the 'hawks have given up on signing Hugh Douglas.

None of these sources claim perfect knowledge but they have some credibilty.
 

Ed B

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Originally posted by Skkorpion
The overwhelming weight of rumor and opinion from both cities, Seattle and Phoenix, appears to support the theory that Vonnie Holliday really does not want to play in Phoenix at all.

Almost a week ago, on KDUS radio, Bob Kemp expressed the opinion that Vonnie was blowing smoke up our collective asses at his press coinference here.

Ian Allen, a Seattle resident, and publisher of Fantasy Football Index,tells me his sources tell him Holliday wants to be a Seahawk and probably will be now that the 'hawks have given up on signing Hugh Douglas.

None of these sources claim perfect knowledge but they have some credibilty.

I definitely get the "Brock marion" vibe from this guy, we are his last resort.
 

BW52

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Originally posted by Skkorpion
The overwhelming weight of rumor and opinion from both cities, Seattle and Phoenix, appears to support the theory that Vonnie Holliday really does not want to play in Phoenix at all.

Almost a week ago, on KDUS radio, Bob Kemp expressed the opinion that Vonnie was blowing smoke up our collective asses at his press coinference here.

Ian Allen, a Seattle resident, and publisher of Fantasy Football Index,tells me his sources tell him Holliday wants to be a Seahawk and probably will be now that the 'hawks have given up on signing Hugh Douglas.

None of these sources claim perfect knowledge but they have some credibilty.

Wonder if the Cards have checked out McDougle,Cory Redding,Dewayne White as draft options.McDougle is ranked as a late Rd 1 and the others Rd 2 types.
 

ajcardfan

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I don't really agree with the "Screw 'em if he hasn't taken our offer!" attitude. Until we win enough so we're attractive to every free agent in the league, we need to fight for every guy we really want and sell him as hard as possible that this is a great place to play. If we had taken that attitude, we'd have pulled our offer to Dexter Jackson on Monday and not signed him. Maybe we lose out on Colvin and Holliday. But, if nothing is ever ventured, nothing will ever be gained. Maybe it doesn't pay off for us in a big way this offseason. But, who's to say that with some other free agents this year or next that it won't?
 

seesred

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I would go after him until they say no or the offer is out of sight. We can use him and if he would sign with us for all that money he is going to get he better play hard or these fans will remember. Go get em Rod Graves. Sign the sucker up.

GBR
 

Reddog

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Originally posted by Skkorpion
The overwhelming weight of rumor and opinion from both cities, Seattle and Phoenix, appears to support the theory that Vonnie Holliday really does not want to play in Phoenix at all.

Almost a week ago, on KDUS radio, Bob Kemp expressed the opinion that Vonnie was blowing smoke up our collective asses at his press coinference here.

Ian Allen, a Seattle resident, and publisher of Fantasy Football Index,tells me his sources tell him Holliday wants to be a Seahawk and probably will be now that the 'hawks have given up on signing Hugh Douglas.

None of these sources claim perfect knowledge but they have some credibilty.

I think he would gladly play here for the right money but given the chance to play for Holmgrin at similar or slightly less $$ he would.
 

ChiCard

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Originally posted by seesred
I would go after him until they say no or the offer is out of sight. We can use him and if he would sign with us for all that money he is going to get he better play hard or these fans will remember. Go get em Rod Graves. Sign the sucker up.

GBR

I agree with this sentiment. After all they are all looking out for themselves. If he is "Brock marion" then F*** him and move on.
 

ajcardfan

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Originally posted by ChiCard
I agree with this sentiment. After all they are all looking out for themselves. If he is "Brock marion" then F*** him and move on.

Yeah, but he could be Duane Starks too. Everyone thought Starks
was playing us last year when he was talking to the Raiders and the Ravens, but we wound up getting him. Unfortunately, you can't tell until after the fact if he's a "Brock Marion" or not.
 

Goldfield

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look as much as u DONT want to admitt it, there is gunna be hesitation for everyone to play here...

Can you can blame him for not being SURE if he wants to play here....?

You career is allways better if you go to a winner....

But we can allways sign players if we out bid. And thats what we have to do if we EVER want to win...

Sign him THEN change his mind!
 

earthsci

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Originally posted by ajcardfan
Yeah, but he could be Duane Starks too.

I'm with you on this one. Dexter Jackson only signed with us because of MORE money. Don't give up on Holliday until he signs with someone else.
 

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Interesting take on Holliday out of Green Bay. Below is the article.


Holliday's gamble cost him millions
Last Updated: March 14, 2003


Rick Braun

Green Bay - Vonnie Holliday rolled the dice last summer.

They came up snake eyes.

Now, Holliday is looking at the possibility he may have cost himself millions of dollars.

And the five-year veteran is now in the position where he'll probably have to uproot himself from his professional home if he is to recoup as many dollars as he can.

Simply put, Holliday's big payday is apparently not going to be as big as he'd hoped, or where he'd hoped.

Holliday turned down a sizable offer from the Packers last summer, believing he was deserving of a contract similar to the six-year, $33 million deal the Packers signed free agent Joe Johnson to roughly a year ago.

Maybe it's a shame that Holliday may not finish his career with the Packers. He is a class act in the locker room and a class human being all the way around.

But in the cold, cruel world of the National Football League, sentiment takes a distant back seat to business concerns.

And it takes an even more distant back seat to performance concerns.

When you break down Holliday's five seasons in Green Bay, the numbers don't add up to the reputation.

It may be a bit harsh to call Holliday injury-prone, but in three of his five seasons, he missed at least four games.

He missed four games in 1998, his rookie season, with an ankle injury. He missed four more games with leg and ankle injuries in 2000. Finally, he missed six games in 2002 - four with a torn pectoral muscle, two with torn knee cartilage.

Yes, football is a rough and violent game. Injuries do happen. But durability must always be factored into a player's worth.

It's almost impossible to calculate how much Brett Favre's legend is enhanced by the fact that he's never missed a start since taking over as the starting quarterback in September 1992.

Durability is part of Favre's legend. It's not a strong point thus far in Holliday's five-year career.

And while Favre has put up Hall of Fame numbers and led the Packers to two Super Bowls and one Lombardi Trophy, Holliday's numbers don't tell the tale of a player who gets a knock-'em-dead free-agent deal.

He's never recorded more than eight sacks in a season, and his career-high of eight came in his rookie season. He had six in 1999, just five in 2000 and seven in 2001. He had six last season, but five of them came in one game. Granted, he was playing injured much of the time, but having just one sack in the other nine games he played is simply not enough production from a starting end.

The Packers have touted Holliday as one of the game's best run-stopping ends, but the team's average of 4.8 yards allowed per rushing attempt does not support such a notion.

One thought that remains from the 2002 season is that the defense inexplicably played better from Week 4 through Week 7 than it did from Weeks 1-3. By far.

What is the significance of those time frames?

Holliday played the first three games before getting hurt in the third game at Detroit. Rookie Aaron Kampman filled in for the next four weeks, and the Packers went from allowing 34, 35 and 31 points to allowing 14, 21, 10 and 9.

That could be entirely a coincidence. It could be a matter of who the competition was (Atlanta, New Orleans and Detroit in the first three, Carolina, Chicago, New England and Washington in the next four).

It may have been a complete fluke. It may have had more to do with the other 10 players on the unit. It all may mean nothing at all. But then again, it might.

The Packers might believe they're a better team with Holliday than without him.

But when they placed the transitional tag on Cletidus Hunt and not Holliday, they may have spoken volumes about what they actually thought.

They're still talking as though they'd like to retain Holliday. And when / if they don't, they'll probably say it was simply a matter of the numbers. Maybe they believed they couldn't get Holliday for the amount they were able to sign Hunt at.

But one could easily surmise that they decided that Holliday was not worth as much money as Hunt.

And with the Packers also trying to get together on a long-term contract with rush end Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, Holliday could be looking at being only the fourth-highest-paid player along the defensive line behind Johnson, Hunt and Gbaja-Biamila. A little more than a year ago, he seemed in line to be the highest-paid defensive lineman.

Although Holliday has been an admired player in Green Bay for his five seasons, he may not be worth the money he's been seeking.

In the end, the Packers may be lucky he turned them down last summer.
 
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