Honestly, I'm not surprised

[fordronken]

Here's the thing. They'd said all along that they weren't gonna take somebody who couldn't impact in a Western Conference Finals. Apparently, nobody left could do that. While I assumed that meant they'd grab a Euro and stash him, it turns out to likely be a combination of two things: No Euro they really liked, and Q-Rich's back being a little more of an issue than expected and causing an up in the ante.

So, that means they're going for "right now" players. I fully expect them to use both full exceptions on good fit veteran players and a few lucky breaks at the minimum. I think they're going for broke and trying to win it all immediately.

That being said, if they don't spend the exceptions, I take everything back and will organize a posse to go round up Sarver, hog tie him, and beat the crap out of him.

Oh, and for what it's worth, a good friend of mine is a DIE HARD UCLA fan and swears by Dijon Thompson. He's amazed he fell that far and is convinced he'll be a good player for us. He says he's his favorite player to come out of UCLA in a while(not that it's saying much). But if he ends up as or more productive than Ariza and Gadzuric, I'll be pretty happy with the pick.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Here's the thing. They'd said all along that they weren't gonna take somebody who couldn't impact in a Western Conference Finals. Apparently, nobody left could do that. While I assumed that meant they'd grab a Euro and stash him, it turns out to likely be a combination of two things: No Euro they really liked, and Q-Rich's back being a little more of an issue than expected and causing an up in the ante.

So, that means they're going for "right now" players. I fully expect them to use both full exceptions on good fit veteran players and a few lucky breaks at the minimum. I think they're going for broke and trying to win it all immediately.

That being said, if they don't spend the exceptions, I take everything back and will organize a posse to go round up Sarver, hog tie him, and beat the crap out of him.

Oh, and for what it's worth, a good friend of mine is a DIE HARD UCLA fan and swears by Dijon Thompson. He's amazed he fell that far and is convinced he'll be a good player for us. He says he's his favorite player to come out of UCLA in a while(not that it's saying much). But if he ends up as or more productive than Ariza and Gadzuric, I'll be pretty happy with the pick.

I'm actually with you on this one. I'll hold my tongue until FA starts and ends (and THANK GOD it starts in a couple DAYS!!!!! Could you imagine if there was a lockout on July 1st and we had to just talk about this move and nothing else for months?) A little bummed, but still like adding KT and look forward to who else we're gonna bring in/resign.

 

[arthurracoon]

I concur.



In the immortal words of Rod Graves: "Judge us during training camp"

 

[Mad Psyentist]

Here's the thing. They'd said all along that they weren't gonna take somebody who couldn't impact in a Western Conference Finals. Apparently, nobody left could do that. While I assumed that meant they'd grab a Euro and stash him, it turns out to likely be a combination of two things: No Euro they really liked, and Q-Rich's back being a little more of an issue than expected and causing an up in the ante.

So, that means they're going for "right now" players. I fully expect them to use both full exceptions on good fit veteran players and a few lucky breaks at the minimum. I think they're going for broke and trying to win it all immediately.

That being said, if they don't spend the exceptions, I take everything back and will organize a posse to go round up Sarver, hog tie him, and beat the crap out of him.

Oh, and for what it's worth, a good friend of mine is a DIE HARD UCLA fan and swears by Dijon Thompson. He's amazed he fell that far and is convinced he'll be a good player for us. He says he's his favorite player to come out of UCLA in a while(not that it's saying much). But if he ends up as or more productive than Ariza and Gadzuric, I'll be pretty happy with the pick.

I agree too...my impression is that the suns didnt see anyone they wanted or at least fit their plans. Im still waiting for free agency to see what they do before i decide to make snap judgements. I want players that will help us win now.

 

[Evil Ash]

This is the right idea. Lets see what happens before we go into full fledged panic mode.

I don't really like having to throw in the first rounder of this year to get Kurt Thomas but unfortunately I understand why the had to do it. Bigs (even just good ones) have a had a high price tag for the past couple of offseasons in terms of contracts. So why is it that everyone expected that to change in terms of a trade? Good big men are hard to find. Heck we're Suns fans we should know this better than anybody.

We still have all of our exceptions and can offer anyone the vet min to join us. We have no idea what the Suns have in mind in terms of building the team, all we do is guess and share our own opinions.

All we can do is see what happens and just hope that BC still has the magic fingers in order for us to build a better team. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt due to what he did this past offseason that built a 62 win ballclub in one offseason but if the offseason comes and we don't sign good players I'm going to be very very pissed off.

 

[Cheesebeef]

FA still starts on July 1st, right? Or is JUly 15th? or some other time? what's the waiting period - is that changed?

 

[Kolo]

I'm pretty sure teams can start dialogues on July 1, but contracts can't be signed until July 22 (one week later than usual to give teams time to digest the new CBA)--don't remember where I read that, though.

 

[CardsFan88]

The part I disagree with is upping the ante.

Why?

Q is a good player. No need to trade away his talent, no way it helps our cap situation, really. (~2 years less on contract doesn't jive with me) The #21 pick would have fetched plenty of talent. We'll still be over the cap then, unless we trade someone in another salary dump for lower than market value. Marion? No way...too good. I want him, nash, stat, and jj to retire here. Unless one of them is gone, Q being gone for that 2 years isn't going to matter.

Lets face it whether Q was here or gone, it won't impact who we can sign in free agency since we'll be over the cap anyways

But like I said above, this deal did nothing to help us...yes KT is a pretty good player, but I truly believe that we could have gotten someone just as good during fa with one of the exceptions. We could have done the above paragraph whether or not Q was here. And doing what I said and still having Q, and a #21 pick whether it was nate robinson, or salim, or any of the other potential pretty decent players at that point would have been better

2 exceptions, Q, minimum vet, #21, #57 = over the cap

2 exceptions, KT, min vet, #54 = over the cap

We're better w/o the trade. True hindsight is 20/20, but they KNEW they were getting the pick they did, and KNEW they would have 54 and 57...so how is hindsight any better. Now we have to hope the suns spend the exceptions and can get finley in for the minimum vet pay...and hope dallas cuts him. But once again, we could have done that without the trade.

Complex process, yeah on how to tell the fans what happened here.

That said we COULD get a couple of decent players through the exceptions, and if finley could sign at the minimum, thats three productive players we could add, so I'm not sold on the idea the entire offseason was wasted. But having Q and #21 and adding three productive players is better.

And of course if we use those exceptions on people, Hunter is gone.

It's hard to drink the koolaid on this one, and I'm sure you all agree. I hope for the best, but now everything right has to happen. If not, I believe we take a step back as a team. We'll still be good, but not as dominant.

If Q doesn't leave, I think we had a chance to take a good step forward. That's just my opinion on a disastarous draft.

I would have felt much better if we didn't give them 21, and we got 30, or even simply not giving them 21. But of course everyone would have wished that would have happened too. My point, why didn't BC make it happen?

If their big plan involves shipping another player out a la barkley for multiple scrubs, or even someone who is big but not athletic I'll be VERY mad.

True they said if someone didn't help them... But how is a lowly 3 year vet who sucks going to be better than say salim, or someone else they could have gotten? How is KT better than the FA we could have gotten w/o giving up Q?

The Sky is falling, The sky is falling. No, but it sure seems stormy.

Here's to a good fa period

 

[Evil Ash]

The part I disagree with is upping the ante.

We didn't up the ante. The Knicks were getting a first rounder in this deal anyways. The only thing that changed was it went from a future pick to a pick this year ... thats all

 

[CardsFan88]

We didn't up the ante. The Knicks were getting a first rounder in this deal anyways. The only thing that changed was it went from a future pick to a pick this year ... thats all

I see, but still we didn't know that ourselves, so I guess that was a reaction statement a little off from the main point. So I guess I should rephrase and say, we shouldn't have given up a 1st round pick to make it go through. No way is giving up a 1st round and Q worth KT. With how it doesn't really help out our cap situation in any of the years since we'll be over the cap all those years unless we trade away a good player...giving up a 1st rounder to make it go through doesn't help. That's based on my opinion that we could have gotten just as good of player in fa with one of the exceptions.

Granted KT is a good player, but his caliber could have been had in fa. Either way we're over the cap.

Well, I guess I'm on the Dikemebe, Payton, and Finley bandwagon now. Do I want better, sure. Would each help us out, yep. But with two exceptions left, what options do we really have? I guess we could pull out another rabbit like hunter, but once again that would be another thing that has to go right with us. I don't know there's more, but I guess there's too many variables out there to make sense of it all. I can only hope BC does. But this certainly didn't add more faith in him that he will. Prove me wrong BC, please.

 

[Chaz]

Granted KT is a good player, but his caliber could have been had in fa. Either way we're over the cap.

For example?


If the Suns had signed KT last summer instead of Q would you have been happy?

Many people wondered why we signed Q when they needed help in the front court. Then they trade Q for front court help and people are pissed.

I don't get it.

The Suns NEED more size to go any deeper in the playoffs. I think KT is a great fit and plays where the Suns are weak.

 

[cly2tw]

With the money, the best we'd have gotten in the FA were Okur or Dampier. I'd take KT over both anytime. It's too bad however that Isiah had the urge to help the Spurs out by trading Mohammed for Rose. Otherwise, Q for Mohammed would have been a better trade.

Also, I don't buy the "Sarver is cheap" rant. JJ was unproven last offseason. And we'll get him signed now. Period. We are trying to win now and with so many good FAs likely willing to come here for seasonable prices. Getting a little more under the cap makes sense, if, a big if though, we trade Marion for smaller contract players and additional cap. Let's wait before we judge the management's moves of now.

 

[CardsFan88]

For example?


If the Suns had signed KT last summer instead of Q would you have been happy?

Many people wondered why we signed Q when they needed help in the front court. Then they trade Q for front court help and people are pissed.

I don't get it.

The Suns NEED more size to go any deeper in the playoffs. I think KT is a great fit and plays where the Suns are weak.

Sure in a sense. Not for the same contract he has now, or the one we signed Q for. But say 5 mill a season for 2-3 season I would have liked it. It's the extra draft pick we threw in I don't like. Besides...we saw how Q performed here...granted he had a horrible postseason, but before that Q was a great pickup. One of the reasons we were blowing teams out, and getting national press was they way Q fit in with his 3 point shooting. We still have to wait and see if KT makes as much as an impact on D as Q did on O. (that's alot of One letter things)

I'm not pissed about KT, I hope he'll be good, and think he'll be at the very least, a decent player and a huge upgrade to jake voshkul. But an extra 1st round pick to give up when there were some pretty good players left is too much for me.

An example of someone who at least I think is comparable to KT defense wise, for the minutes he'll play, and the fact we wouldn't have to give up Q...would be dikembe. Of course assuming.... That's just off the top of my head, but imho Having Q, Dikemebe, and #21 outstrips just KT alone. Either way we're over the cap. When KT's contract is up, we'll still be over the cap with Nash's, JJ's, Matirx's, and Amare's contracts. So unless we unload one of them too, which I don't think would be smart (of course it's a mile away), it doesn't make sense that way. It only has the possibility of making sense if we trade away one of those guys. There's too much that has to happen for that to be a benefit looking at it right now. But then again a lot happens in a few years.

It's history now, so I hope KT comes in like gangbusters.

Here's to BC making me look like schmidt

 

[panfolk]

I am personally not pissed we traded Q. I am pissed we are being short-sighted. Once Thomas and Nash are toast in a couple years we'll be back to being average or worse. We won't build a dynasty quality team without at least one young prospect at each position. Wouldn't that kind of make since given the expanded rosters? I dunno. Maybe this is a show of faith in LB. I was eagerly hoping to get Robinson and I feel gyped.

I'm dearly wishing we get Marshall and Finley (Payton might be poison) and resign Bo. I know Bo doesn't get minutes but given the quality of his character I'm sure he's a good locker room influence. I hope Voskuhl gets on somewhere where he can get minutes. Geez. We could have had Garcia to back up JJ or Petro for Amare... hard to swollow getting no talent during the glitz of draftday.

 

[Chaz]

Sorry but Thomas fits with this team offensively and is about 7(+) years younger.
Mutumbo can play defense as long as he doesn't have to move and is a major liability on offense.

People worry if Thomas can run with the Suns?

Mutumbo? I thought Mutumbo was a bad idea two years ago and it hasn't improved since then.

 

[elindholm]

Granted KT is a good player, but his caliber could have been had in fa.

Not a chance. No FA big man who's half the player that Thomas is will be available for the MLE.

 

[cly2tw]

I am personally not pissed we traded Q. I am pissed we are being short-sighted. Once Thomas and Nash are toast in a couple years we'll be back to being average or worse. We won't build a dynasty quality team without at least one young prospect at each position.

The core, or the franchise, is Amare and Amare only. And he is only 22. And second piece for the franchise is Joe, also only 23. KT's contract is up in 3 years, Nash's in 5. We will worry about young talent from next year on and it won't be too late. Right now, we need to go through FA to get pieces that help us win immediately, which is also a chance to sign some mature but still young talents, like Swift, Simmons.

 

[justAndy]

...

trade away that slot save a couple million - trade Q's contract for KT - SAVE 20 - 30 mil so you have better finance to sign Amare & JJ. Calm down y'all.

 

[panfolk]

A player can be toast well before their contract is up. Swift will be looking for more money than we can give him and he hasn't shown great improvement over hte same time span as Joe or Amare. He isn't much other than a monster dunker and we already have Amare for that.

 

[CardsFan88]

Granted KT is a good player, but his caliber could have been had in fa.

Not a chance. No FA big man who's half the player that Thomas is will be available for the MLE.

I hope you're right, and I'm wrong. I guess I'm also holding out hope that someone would come here in the hopes of winning a championship. It's hard to convince a young guy of that since it's a one year deal, but the suns have a history of resigning guys after a 1 year contract gets them in the door. If not, there is dikembe, or someone his age where that's probably their market value.

Sure dikembe is way older than KT just like Chaz said, but I think he's still a good defender, and if he plays 15 minutes or so a night can be pretty good in that role. Keep him fresh, and when we need stops in the 4th, he can get the job done.

I just feel, that if there is 1 minute left and we need a couple of stops, I'd rather have dikembe in then KT. I think that situation, is how we stop the spurs. I think a few other possessions in the game where dikembe can do the same helps keep us in the game to get us to that lead with one minute.

He is an offensive liability, but even with dikembe in, we could score, and if he only plays 15 minutes or so a night, it wouldn't be like we would have that liability during most of the game. But he could provide the d in the clutch minutes we need, and at his career signing a one year deal imo could be a possibility.

Even with KT, I feel Dikembe would be a great pickup to be in such a role. I don't think our offense would suffer that much. Unless we can convince a guy to take a one year contract with a promise of more later, a situation like dikembe would probably be one of our best shots at improving defensively.

I'm not trying to sell dikembe as a cure all, just giving an example of a way we can improve our defense in spots w/o KT.

Like I said before we could get lucky again and get another hunter for cheap, just this trade puts us in a position where if we want to improve this year and add quality depth, we need to start hitting homeruns because it's two outs in the bottom of the ninth. We're under pressure now to go out and do good now. Whereas we could have kept our offense intact, added a good young player, and still used the exceptions on defense.

The only assurance we got from KT, is that we assured ourselves of landing a good defensive player who will improve that area of our team. Good yes, but I thought the cost was too high and it takes away from other areas on the team.

 

[elindholm]

I predict that you will be pleasantly surprised by what Thomas brings to the offense. He's not going to average 15 points a game, or probably even 12, but he will keep defenses honest.

 

[CardsFan88]

trade away that slot save a couple million - trade Q's contract for KT - SAVE 20 - 30 mil so you have better finance to sign Amare & JJ. Calm down y'all.

True, but then you're giving away plenty of opportunities to improve the team so that you spend less money later. In addition you never know what could happen. If things go downhill, or not as well as planned, all of a sudden that money you wanted to save, and gave away opportunites to improve, you then spend so your franchise is marketable. Thus you could hurt your team, and then hurt your pocketbook, when you should have left well enough alone.

I don't like giving away opportunities to improve the team in that way. We need a bench as much as defense imo. Every talented player helps.

But to digress it is a business to make money, and Sarver won't see it the same way because it's his money. That's the reality.

I just think it's hard to say hey, we're ascending, why not this be the time we reach out for more, and not be giving away opportunities to improve. Winning brings more money too. You know your own players better than others, and draft picks are still relatively cheap.

Of course the window of opportunity is wide open, I'm just not thrilled with the continual trading away of draft picks, and players that we do draft. Oh well, go Suns!

 

[CardsFan88]

I predict that you will be pleasantly surprised by what Thomas brings to the offense. He's not going to average 15 points a game, or probably even 12, but he will keep defenses honest.

I have seen him, and do like his offensive game. But I'll purposely play dumb so the surprise is stronger

 

[overseascardfan]

FA still starts on July 1st, right? Or is JUly 15th? or some other time? what's the waiting period - is that changed?

Teams can contact FA's starting July 1, but cannot sign them until the 21st or 22nd of July.

 

[justAndy]

True, but then you're giving away plenty of opportunities to improve the team so that you spend less money later. In addition you never know what could happen. If things go downhill, or not as well as planned, all of a sudden that money you wanted to save, and gave away opportunites to improve, you then spend so your franchise is marketable. Thus you could hurt your team, and then hurt your pocketbook, when you should have left well enough alone.

I don't like giving away opportunities to improve the team in that way. We need a bench as much as defense imo. Every talented player helps.

But to digress it is a business to make money, and Sarver won't see it the same way because it's his money. That's the reality.

I just think it's hard to say hey, we're ascending, why not this be the time we reach out for more, and not be giving away opportunities to improve. Winning brings more money too. You know your own players better than others, and draft picks are still relatively cheap.

Of course the window of opportunity is wide open, I'm just not thrilled with the continual trading away of draft picks, and players that we do draft. Oh well, go Suns!

Indeed - the 17 million more or so that Joe is now going to cost now (67M vs 50M) is a good part of why the Suns are making these moves.