How do you feel about Josh McCown as our QB?

[vikesfan]

He is going to be great, fantastic, unbeilivable, the cats meow, the top of the group, the ultimate QB, the next coming of Johnny U, the first QB in space, the first to run and tyhrow for 2,000 yards, the only QB to catch his own pass for a TD. I Believe!

GBR
40

Can't be serious nobody knows how he is going to be, so he might as well be guessed as great!

Brad Johnson caught his own pass for TD when he played for DG in MIN.

 

[Ryanwb]

1. This guy was the 3rd QB in his draft class iirc.

2. This guy went in the 3rd round.

Since when does draft position have anything to do with overall talent?

 

[vikesfan]

Since when does draft position have anything to do with overall talent?

Nothing. Just pointing out he is not an undrafted FA.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

If you are a hardcore fan and recorded every game, watch him over the weeks that he played. He improved every week, and that's a good sign. Is Green taking a chance? Hell yes, but Green has been out of football for a while and I don't see him screwing up his record of success over a QB. There's something he sees in Josh, and until the season starts, we'll have to hope Josh is good enough to get points on the board.

 

[Evil Ash]

If you are a hardcore fan and recorded every game, watch him over the weeks that he played. He improved every week, and that's a good sign. Is Green taking a chance? Hell yes, but Green has been out of football for a while and I don't see him screwing up his record of success over a QB. There's something he sees in Josh, and until the season starts, we'll have to hope Josh is good enough to get points on the board.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[Russ Smith]

Josh knew he would not make it in the NFL as a running type QB. College coaches do not change their offensive schemes for 1 player. That's nuts.

they do for talent quite often. Switzer junked the wishbone for the I formation when he got Marcus Dupree. then he was "going to" junk the offense again for Troy Aikman but Troy got hurt, Jamelle Holieway stepped in and ran the bone so well he decided to "unjunk" it.

Va Tech completely changed their offense, when they had Druckenmiller they went one way, when they had Vick they went another. Texas is changing their offense for Vince Young. Miami of Ohio changed their offense for Ben. Hell USC changed coordinators for Carson Palmer, happens quite a bit.

SMU was a program struggling to recover from NCAA penalties, if the coach was that impressed with josh he would have changed his offense to feature him more. Josh is a much better athlete than player right now, Green is one of the few coaches who's proven he can succeed with just about anybody at QB, that's why I am willing to give Josh the chance, if Mac was the coach and did this I would be completley opposed.


As for the broken down on film by DG stuff, the guy went to the playoffs with how many different QB's? it's pretty clear Green believes his system can make a lot of QB's play well, I'm sure he's convinced Josh can do so too, but being selected by DG to be a starter is not exactly a guaranteed long term starting spot, if he decides you can't cut it, he moves on quickly.

FYI Jake had 6 years here and nobody is writing off Josh, just saying he earned the job strictly on physical talent and potential, not on performance.
i've never been a huge Shaun king fan but given Josh' penchant for holding the ball too long I fear we're going to see a lot more of King this year than any of us want to, while Josh is taking smelling salts to clear his head.

 

[vikesfan]

they do for talent quite often. Switzer junked the wishbone for the I formation when he got Marcus Dupree. then he was "going to" junk the offense again for Troy Aikman but Troy got hurt, Jamelle Holieway stepped in and ran the bone so well he decided to "unjunk" it.

Va Tech completely changed their offense, when they had Druckenmiller they went one way, when they had Vick they went another. Texas is changing their offense for Vince Young. Miami of Ohio changed their offense for Ben. Hell USC changed coordinators for Carson Palmer, happens quite a bit.

SMU was a program struggling to recover from NCAA penalties, if the coach was that impressed with josh he would have changed his offense to feature him more. Josh is a much better athlete than player right now, Green is one of the few coaches who's proven he can succeed with just about anybody at QB, that's why I am willing to give Josh the chance, if Mac was the coach and did this I would be completley opposed.


As for the broken down on film by DG stuff, the guy went to the playoffs with how many different QB's? it's pretty clear Green believes his system can make a lot of QB's play well, I'm sure he's convinced Josh can do so too, but being selected by DG to be a starter is not exactly a guaranteed long term starting spot, if he decides you can't cut it, he moves on quickly.

FYI Jake had 6 years here and nobody is writing off Josh, just saying he earned the job strictly on physical talent and potential, not on performance.
i've never been a huge Shaun king fan but given Josh' penchant for holding the ball too long I fear we're going to see a lot more of King this year than any of us want to, while Josh is taking smelling salts to clear his head.

Young QBs hold onto the ball too long. They also throw a lot of ints. They also make misreads.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Young QBs hold onto the ball too long. They also throw a lot of ints. They also make misreads.

How long did you work on that one. You're making all your opinions based on one game (if you even watched that one) or based on your love for DG. We have seen all three starts plus when he filled in for Blake and 2 preseasons. How about giving us some credit for our opionions too.

 

[Redsz]

Not to be patronizing or anything, but VF does have a point.

Anyone saying that he won't be good enough because he holds onto the ball too long or doesn't read defenses well is being pretty unreasonable and not taking into account McCown's experience.

As long as he continues to improve, throw for over 200 yards and have high QB ratings like he did in his last few games... I think he will be fine.

 

[jstadvl]

On the holding the ball

the NFL is faster, the O line was very inconsistent last season, on a team like ours the Qb's all have a tendency to want to make things happen. He's learning to egt rid of it. don't hear anyone complaining about him holding it too long when he scrambles for a 1st or more!
Considering he's not a rook but that this will be his first year as a starter who can we compare him to and then we can investigate what a fair but friendly wager might be on how good he does.
GIMME RED!! GOOOOO JOSH!! RED SUNDAYS!!GOOOO CARDS!!9-7 baby!

 

[Pariah]

I think he's okay. I also think we'll really regret not taking Leftwich last year or Reothlisberger this year.

 

[BACH]

Not to be patronizing or anything, but VF does have a point.

Anyone saying that he won't be good enough because he holds onto the ball too long or doesn't read defenses well is being pretty unreasonable and not taking into account McCown's experience.

As long as he continues to improve, throw for over 200 yards and have high QB ratings like he did in his last few games... I think he will be fine.

I think most forget, that McCown never ran the 1st unit under McGinnis. He showed great improvement over those three games and I expect him to continue that improvement during this off-season runing the 1st team.

BTW... I find this McCown discussion pretty stupid.
Dennis Green:
1) Is an experienced NFL Head Coach.
2) He has one of the best records in NFL history.
3) His contract has huge performance bonuses.

If McCown is good enough to be named the starter by Dennis Green and the coaching staff, isn't he good enough to given the benefit of doubt by us?

 

[john h]

He has potential but potential don't cut it in the NFL.

Way to early to pass judgement on him. It is a shame we did not use him more last year when the season was long lost and we would not be in the position we are in of not knowing.

 

[john h]

a) he's obviously got physical talent up the wazoo.

b) i'm a big believer in dg's ability to raise qbs.

c) the fact that he had to take a major step down in collegiate competition to be successful scares me on two fronts: (1) he could succeed against the best; (2) he didn't have the mental make-up and intestinal fortitude to make it at a high level, so he tucked his tail and ran to compete against lesser talent. that, my friends, is scared.

We have seen a lot of big, strong armed, fast guys that could not make a sand lot team. About 5 games into the season we will have a decent idea of what we have or do not have.

 

[BigRedMO]

It seems like there is a lot of expectation for success this year based on faith in Green. Green has never seen McCown play in person. McCown has no experience in games that count. Green can not line up and play. I recall all the excitement about Buddy Ryan too. I hope Green and McCown does well. I dont base my expectations of the Cardinals on faith or potential or that Green won some games in MN. Apparently MN lost faith in Green. No back up plan for McCown not cutting it is very risky. The Giants are shopping for a vet to back up Manning. That is prudent.

 

[football karma]

For me, here is why Buddy and DG comparisions dont hold water–

I was comfortable with whatever changes Buddy made on D.

However, I was not happy with cutting Ben Coleman, making Larry “I was out of football last year, and now I get a $1mm contract” Tharpe the starting right tackle, turning reserve defensive end Wendell Gaines into the starting tight end, and running Gary Clark and Ricky Proehl off— these were moves that were as absurd on the day they were made as they are today -- and all from a guy who was a defensive expert, not offensive.

So far, about the only really controversial move DG has made has been anointing Josh the starter and the moves associated with that decision ( cutting Blake, passing on Roth, Kerry Collins, etc). Unlike the Buddy experience, this move is dead on in DG’s area of expertise, so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[azdad1978]

Way to early to pass judgement on him. It is a shame we did not use him more last year when the season was long lost and we would not be in the position we are in of not knowing.

I'm not passing judgement on Josh but his 3 starts he showed us is more like a movie trailer, we don't know if the movie is good or not.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's a buncha' bull dunk.

Yeah he did step down to Sam Houston State, but Southern Methodist isn't exactly a really good program. Southern Methodist ran an option attack, and McCown wasn't well suited for that style of offense.

It had nothing to do with being "scared", it was more about wanting to win (which he did, as Sam Houston went deep into the playoffs, beating Preston Parson's NAU team) and wanting to play in an offense where he could throw the ball...

it's not the level of talent on his team, but rather, the level of talent that he played against. he couldn't hack it against the higher level. moreover, how much of an idiot is a dude when he accepts a scholarship to a school that doesn't run the type of offense he wants to play in? krang, there is no way around this . . . his transfer smacks of nothing good.

and he beat NAU?!? WOOOO-FRIGGIN'-HOOOO!

 

[SECTION 11]

and he beat NAU?!? WOOOO-FRIGGIN'-HOOOO!

He beat Preston Parsons in that game! Woo Friggin Hoo!



HUNTSVILLE, Texas – Alex St. Peter’s 20-yard field goal as time expired ended Northern Arizona’s season as Sam Houston State posted a 34-31 victory in the first round of the NCAA I-AA playoffs. Sam Houston State (10-2) advances to face top-seeded Montana, while the Lumberjacks complete the 2001 campaign at 8-4.

St. Peter’s game-winning kick was setup by a 58-yard completion from Josh McCown to Matt Buss that put the Bearkats in scoring position. SMSU had taken possession of the ball on the 32-yard line with just 24 seconds on the clock after a NAU touchdown.

NAU had tied the game on a four-yard pass play from Preston Parsons to Clarence Moore. It completed a 12-play, 73-yard drive to tie the game.

Parsons finished with a career-high 338 yards and four touchdowns. Wide receivers Clarence Moore and Johnny Marshall both had career afternoons. Moore had eight catches for 153 yards with two touchdowns, while Marshall had 149 yards on six catches with a touchdown.

The Bearkats led 24-14 at the half behind three rushing touchdowns in the opening 20 minutes. Sam Houston scored the opening touchdown on a two-yard run by Joe Rauls. The extra-point attempt failed. NAU then rebounded two plays later when Parsons hit Marshall on a 75-yard bomb for a 7-6 lead. The Bearkats then got a 42-field goal from Joey Price ad a one-yard run by McCown to build a 17-7 lead. NAU responded with a 10-play drive to pull within three at 17-14 when Tom Winn caught a 12-yard pass from Parsons.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think most forget, that McCown never ran the 1st unit under McGinnis. He showed great improvement over those three games and I expect him to continue that improvement during this off-season runing the 1st team.

BTW... I find this McCown discussion pretty stupid.
Dennis Green:
1) Is an experienced NFL Head Coach.
2) He has one of the best records in NFL history.
3) His contract has huge performance bonuses.

If McCown is good enough to be named the starter by Dennis Green and the coaching staff, isn't he good enough to given the benefit of doubt by us?

i think most of us are actually giving him the benefit of the doubt based on his physical talent and dg's assessment, but that don't mean we have no reason for skepticism. realism boys, realism. just like my prediction of our record last year . . . realism.

 

[CardShark]

Posted on another thread;
Well I for one liked McCown in some of the pre-season games he played in. I thought he had the intangibles to be a good QB if he ever got the opportunity. I mentioned this last year and was promptly questioned on my statement. I couldn't really explain, it was just a gut feeling. It's obvious that he has the size, agility and arm strength to be a successful QB. I thought he showed the heart and desire to win whenever he was on the field, he just lacked training. Let's not forget that coaching was questionable over the past few years where developing talent was concerned. On the flip side, I think we're going to find out that Mac's staff was actually pretty good at evaluating new talent, they just couldn't develop it.I would have gone with him over Blake to begin with. I cringed the day I heard that Blake was signed. Much the same way when I heard King was signed. There are no QB's in the free agent market that I would bring in to start over McCown at this point. Collins is probably the best one out there and I think McCown has more of an upside. One thing that has to change before we see great play from the QB position, regardless of who's there, is the play from our vaunted offensive line. That's where it all starts.
__________________

 

[joeshmo]

i think most of us are actually giving him the benefit of the doubt based on his physical talent and dg's assessment, but that don't mean we have no reason for skepticism. realism boys, realism. just like my prediction of our record last year . . . realism.

Realism is in the eye of the beholder. It is all relative to your point of view. If you think McCown will be good it is real. If you think he will be bad it is real as well.

I mean, really, what is really real, is something more real because we say it is real or becuase someone else says it is real, or is everything real, or, this one will blow your mind away, "is nothing really real at all".

Think about that one, or is what you are thinking even real?

And that is the Realism of the situation here.

And if a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a niose?

My head hurts.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not to be patronizing or anything, but VF does have a point.

Anyone saying that he won't be good enough because he holds onto the ball too long or doesn't read defenses well is being pretty unreasonable and not taking into account McCown's experience.

As long as he continues to improve, throw for over 200 yards and have high QB ratings like he did in his last few games... I think he will be fine.

Who was that guy who spent years telling people that young QB's hold the ball and cause sacks and everyone ripping the OL needed to realize the sacks were dropping because Jake was getting better at unloading, not because the OL was getting better at pass blocking?

I fully realize young QB's hold the ball, the problem is Josh has the 2nd bad habit of holding it and then thinking he can outrun the passrush which is why he takes a lot of hits. I made my opinion quite clear on that last year with respect to the Broncos, Qb's who run a lot will take hits on the run, ask any RB why it's dangerous to take a lot of hits while on the run, you're spread out not ready to take the hit, lots of injuries occur as a result. Guys who try to outrun the pass rush get hurt a lot, Josh figures to do so as well.

He is clearly getting better, I've stated that in each post in this thread, but Green selected him to be the starter, and in the process cut his competition, and later brought in King, a guy I consider to be a marginal player at best. So Green made a huge commitment to Josh, and it's going to be very interesting to see how it plays out. Most of the QB's Denny succeeded with in Minnesota were not 3rd year guys with little experience, Culpepper is the best comparison and he played in a pass happy offense in college, he was far more polished coming out than Josh was. Josh without question has the physical tools, but it's a gamble to decide he's ready to be a starting QB now. I hope he is, but I'm still surprised we haven't picked up a better veteran than King as a fallback.

 

[kerouac9]

The key to all this is whether or not Marcel Shipp (or another running back) can step up and be successful out of an empty backfield. I think that Josh can be successful, but not by himself. Unless there's a running game that can be the foundation of the offense (at least for a year or two), Josh won't be allowed to develop, because he'll be pressing to make plays.

I think that part of the reason that Brady's matured into the QB that he is now is because Antowain Smith had a career season Brady's rookie year, and the offense went through Smith. This allowed Brady to become comfortable as a QB without having to be a centerpiece. I think that as a "point guard" that distributes the ball to everyone, Josh McCown can succeed this season with a QB rating in the mid-80s. But as the nexus of the offense, I think McCown will fall apart. After two years, Josh might be able to take the reins, but right now the kid's just not ready.

 

[SECTION 11]

The key to all this is whether or not Marcel Shipp (or another running back) can step up and be successful out of an empty backfield. I think that Josh can be successful, but not by himself. Unless there's a running game that can be the foundation of the offense (at least for a year or two), Josh won't be allowed to develop, because he'll be pressing to make plays.

I think that part of the reason that Brady's matured into the QB that he is now is because Antowain Smith had a career season Brady's rookie year, and the offense went through Smith. This allowed Brady to become comfortable as a QB without having to be a centerpiece. I think that as a "point guard" that distributes the ball to everyone, Josh McCown can succeed this season with a QB rating in the mid-80s. But as the nexus of the offense, I think McCown will fall apart. After two years, Josh might be able to take the reins, but right now the kid's just not ready.

Kerouac shoots and scores, again.