How do you feel about Josh McCown as our QB?

[Russ Smith]

The key to all this is whether or not Marcel Shipp (or another running back) can step up and be successful out of an empty backfield. I think that Josh can be successful, but not by himself. Unless there's a running game that can be the foundation of the offense (at least for a year or two), Josh won't be allowed to develop, because he'll be pressing to make plays.

I think that part of the reason that Brady's matured into the QB that he is now is because Antowain Smith had a career season Brady's rookie year, and the offense went through Smith. This allowed Brady to become comfortable as a QB without having to be a centerpiece. I think that as a "point guard" that distributes the ball to everyone, Josh McCown can succeed this season with a QB rating in the mid-80s. But as the nexus of the offense, I think McCown will fall apart. After two years, Josh might be able to take the reins, but right now the kid's just not ready.

The other thing is you just can't begin to compare the college careers of Brady and Josh, Brady played in constant competition with Griese and Henson, in a bigtime school against bigtime competition, huge crowds and tons of pressure. And Brady excelled, he wasn't the son of a QB or the bigtime recruit, but he played well enough that they kept playing him. Faced with a huge challenge where a lot of guys would have transferred, he stuck it out and succeeded.

Josh was in a totally different environment, didn't pan out, and transferred to a school that would let him air it out. Smart move but put Josh at Michigan when Brady was there and I'm betting he transfers from there too.

he has the talent, he's the perfect guy for someone like Green and Kruczek to teach, but once you're named the starter you are under the microscope, I'm just not sure how Josh will react. I see him as a guy who will either be a big success, or a flop, I'm hoping it's the former and not the latter. Jake for all his faults never lacked self confidence, nobody ever had to tell Jake he could play, or that he belonged, or that he was the starter, Josh is quite different and that is really interesting to me.

 

[joeshmo]

The key to all this is whether or not Marcel Shipp (or another running back) can step up and be successful out of an empty backfield. I think that Josh can be successful, but not by himself. Unless there's a running game that can be the foundation of the offense (at least for a year or two), Josh won't be allowed to develop, because he'll be pressing to make plays.

I think that part of the reason that Brady's matured into the QB that he is now is because Antowain Smith had a career season Brady's rookie year, and the offense went through Smith. This allowed Brady to become comfortable as a QB without having to be a centerpiece. I think that as a "point guard" that distributes the ball to everyone, Josh McCown can succeed this season with a QB rating in the mid-80s. But as the nexus of the offense, I think McCown will fall apart. After two years, Josh might be able to take the reins, but right now the kid's just not ready.

I agree a lot of things have to fall into place and there are a lot of questions that have to be answered.

1> Will the oline finally play up to there ability?
2> Is shipp really a feature back or do we have another one on our roster?
3> Is or will Fitz Play as well as advertised?
4> Will Johnson make the leap that a 2nd year WR should?
5> Will the D not allow a ton of points making us throw the ball to much?

There are a lot of things against McCown succeeding?

But there are things that are on his side as well.

1> His undoubted athleticism
2> Greens QB friendly system
3> Boldin and Jones
4> Confidence and the confidence of his teammates.
5> More experience
6> More chemisry with his WR's, TE's, RB's, Olinemen.

Although he has more things on is side the Questions marks I mentioned will have a bigger impact on McCown succeeding or not. If 2 or more of those questions are answered in a positive fashion I see no reason for McCown to not Succeed in this offense.

 

[joeshmo]

he has the talent, he's the perfect guy for someone like Green and Kruczek to teach, but once you're named the starter you are under the microscope, I'm just not sure how Josh will react.

so far according to what the interviews with him, other teammates interviews, Skorp and Nidan are telling us, he is reacting well and excepting the challange so far. Does that mean it will pan out, I have no idea tell regular season games start, but it is a good sign.

 

[AZCB34]

The key to all this is whether or not Marcel Shipp (or another running back) can step up and be successful out of an empty backfield. I think that Josh can be successful, but not by himself. Unless there's a running game that can be the foundation of the offense (at least for a year or two), Josh won't be allowed to develop, because he'll be pressing to make plays.

I think that part of the reason that Brady's matured into the QB that he is now is because Antowain Smith had a career season Brady's rookie year, and the offense went through Smith. This allowed Brady to become comfortable as a QB without having to be a centerpiece. I think that as a "point guard" that distributes the ball to everyone, Josh McCown can succeed this season with a QB rating in the mid-80s. But as the nexus of the offense, I think McCown will fall apart. After two years, Josh might be able to take the reins, but right now the kid's just not ready.

Great post K9. If the OL can get their act together and play with some ferocity and fire off the ball (which I believe Wylie will instill in them) Shipp can in fact be a very effective back (not top tier mind you but very effective and score TDs too). The OL is what will make McCown and Shipp better by establishing a solid running game which will only add sparkle to the young WR corp.

 

[BACH]

i think most of us are actually giving him the benefit of the doubt based on his physical talent and dg's assessment, but that don't mean we have no reason for skepticism. realism boys, realism. just like my prediction of our record last year . . . realism.

Hey, I agree.

Everybody has the right to be skeptical, but my point was that I don't think is very realistic to critized McCown to the extent as some on this board do. He was named the starter in the last three games with a lot of starters out. He has never been given the chance to take a significant amount of reps as a starter for the first unit, so we really don't know what McCown can do as a starter.

 

[kerouac9]

Great post K9. If the OL can get their act together and play with some ferocity and fire off the ball (which I believe Wylie will instill in them) Shipp can in fact be a very effective back (not top tier mind you but very effective and score TDs too). The OL is what will make McCown and Shipp better by establishing a solid running game which will only add sparkle to the young WR corp.

See, I don't think that's fair. The O-line's important, but they've played at an acceptable level the past couple years. Have they played at the level that they've been advertised? Absolutely not. But sometimes players have to do things on their own. Marcel is only as good as the players around him. I think that if you put Marcel behind Seattle's line, or Baltimore's, he's not going to be a much better player than he is here. Would a slightly better O-line suddenly give Shipp the ability to break a 25-yard TD run?

Shipp is going to have to learn to run without a fullback pointing the way to the holes and making sure that everything goes up the middle. Marcel is going to have to get around the corner, run the counter, the draw, etc. I don't think that he has that ability. If he can't make the LBs and Safeties think before moving up to cover the middle zones or dropping deep, then this team's not going to be successful and too much is going to be placed on Josh's shoulders.

 

[Russ Smith]

so far according to what the interviews with him, other teammates interviews, Skorp and Nidan are telling us, he is reacting well and excepting the challange so far. Does that mean it will pan out, I have no idea tell regular season games start, but it is a good sign.

Well the part I'm talking about is on the field. He got better last year, as the year went on we saw less of the deer in the headlights from him.

The point I'm trying to make is the expectations and pressure are a LOT different as a starter than as a backup. People overlook a lot of things in backups because of the circumstances, Blake plays poorly, team is way behind, Josh comes in and hits the LT in the face, who cares Blake stunk I'm just glad he's out of the game. But when Josh is the starter and does something like that it will be seen differently. I'm sure his teammates are behind him, and I'm sure Green is and he's in a much better coaching situation now, but he's never been in a pressure situation as a football player before, the most pressure he's ever seen is playoffs at Sam Houston State. It's just impossible to predict how he'll react.

Early in his NFL career under pressure he made some glaringly bad decisions, hopefully he's got that nervous streak behind him, because a nervous starting QB can bury a team in a hurry.

Totally agree with K9 about the run game but as we've all seen before, run game is as dependent on the pass game as the other way around. with our WR's anybody playing 8 man fronts should be picked apart mercilessly by the pass game. I for one really hope teams try to play 8 man fronts against us this year I just don't see how they can with the talent we will have at WR.

 

[CardShark]

Totally agree with K9 about the run game but as we've all seen before, run game is as dependent on the pass game as the other way around. with our WR's anybody playing 8 man fronts should be picked apart mercilessly by the pass game. I for one really hope teams try to play 8 man fronts against us this year I just don't see how they can with the talent we will have at WR.

I'm sure that until he proves that he can there are going to be teams out there that are going to be saying "make McCown beat us" and still stuff the box against the run. Especially if they feel they can beat our line on the pass rush.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm sure that until he proves that he can there are going to be teams out there that are going to be saying "make McCown beat us" and still stuff the box against the run. Especially if they feel they can beat our line on the pass rush.

Yup. That's the scary part. Until McCown and our still-green wide-out corps can prove that they can keep defenses honest, Marcel is going to be running without the safety net of a stacked offense (with fullback).

If the offense is forced into being run through Josh, it's going to be another long, long season.

 

[AZCB34]

See, I don't think that's fair. The O-line's important, but they've played at an acceptable level the past couple years. Have they played at the level that they've been advertised? Absolutely not. But sometimes players have to do things on their own. Marcel is only as good as the players around him. I think that if you put Marcel behind Seattle's line, or Baltimore's, he's not going to be a much better player than he is here. Would a slightly better O-line suddenly give Shipp the ability to break a 25-yard TD run?

Shipp is going to have to learn to run without a fullback pointing the way to the holes and making sure that everything goes up the middle. Marcel is going to have to get around the corner, run the counter, the draw, etc. I don't think that he has that ability. If he can't make the LBs and Safeties think before moving up to cover the middle zones or dropping deep, then this team's not going to be successful and too much is going to be placed on Josh's shoulders.

I don't think the OL has played at "an acceptable level". Below average IMO and waaaaaaaaay below advertised ability. If this OL plays at an average level Shipp has enough ability to get 1000 yards. Is he a homerun threat? No. But I firmly believe with better blocking he can get his yards, he can score some TDs and every now and then bust off a 25 yarder. I mean he did bust off a 50+ yard run in 02 and a 30+ yarder last year. You act like all he can get is 2.3 yards or something.

If the running game fails, then everything will fall on Josh and the offense could find itself in a bad spot. No doubt about that.

 

[BigRedMO]

In regards to the euphoria about Green I recall that same kind of enthusiasm for Tobin and McGinnis. It has not been the case of excitement about Buddy Ryan only. Neither Tobin or McGinnis panned out. The bad part for both those guys was it may not have been their fault. They may have been in a situation that due to management it was impossible to win.

I am optimistic for 2005 or 2006. I expect that they will be made competitive in more games this year. It is disappointing and embarrassing to watch the Cards and it be a blow out half way through the 1st QTR. My hopes for this year is that there will be significantly fewer games like that this year. I dont like for fans of opposing teams to circle their games with the Cards as automatic victories. Hopefully that will change this year or next.

 

[blindseyed]

Way to early to pass judgement on him.

This goes both ways. People that DON'T think he'll do good AND for those that say he will. It really is too early to tell if he'll fail of if he'll be any good. Those 3 games don't mean much IMO, we'll just have to see what happens come the regulat season, I don't even make much of an evaluation during pre-season only because I want to see what happens when it's real. We should have this discussion after about the 6th game. although these topics are always fun!

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm sure that until he proves that he can there are going to be teams out there that are going to be saying "make McCown beat us" and still stuff the box against the run. Especially if they feel they can beat our line on the pass rush.

absolutely as we saw in Detroit last year, but Blake shredded that defense with basically just Quan, how many yards would he have put up against that defense with Fitz and a more seasoned BJ(dropped 2 passes including a TD in that game)? I am sure teams will show us things to confuse Josh but I don't think too many teams are going to see our WR's and Dennis Green at coach and decide to go 8 in the box, like I said I HOPE they do. I see 4000 yards for Josh if they do (-:

 

[Russ Smith]

This goes both ways. People that DON'T think he'll do good AND for those that say he will. It really is too early to tell if he'll fail of if he'll be any good. Those 3 games don't mean much IMO, we'll just have to see what happens come the regulat season, I don't even make much of an evaluation during pre-season only because I want to see what happens when it's real. We should have this discussion after about the 6th game. although these topics are always fun!

True. The point COULD be argued that Josh could play average at best and still put up big numbers because of Green and our WR's if they pan out as well as we expect they will. I for one don't mind at all if by week 10 fans are saying "Josh isn't that good it's the system and the WR's that make him look good", to me if we're scoring, moving the ball and winning games and he's not losing them by himself, that's all I care about.

But I do think we're going to lose some games this year because of his inexperience and with Green talking playoffs that might be a problem to some.

If Mac were the coach and he cut Blake and named Josh the starter I'd have ripped the decision mercilessly, but Green has proven repeatedly he can get the best out of a QB so you have to trust him. I would have assumed he could get the best out of Blake too but apparently HE didn't think so and you have to trust the guy he absolutely knows QB's.

I think what we're all afraid of is Josh falling flat on his face and us spending the whole year watching Leftwich star in Jax and Ben develop in Pittsburgh while we're crying over spilled milk here.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't think the OL has played at "an acceptable level". Below average IMO and waaaaaaaaay below advertised ability. If this OL plays at an average level Shipp has enough ability to get 1000 yards. Is he a homerun threat? No. But I firmly believe with better blocking he can get his yards, he can score some TDs and every now and then bust off a 25 yarder. I mean he did bust off a 50+ yard run in 02 and a 30+ yarder last year. You act like all he can get is 2.3 yards or something.

If the running game fails, then everything will fall on Josh and the offense could find itself in a bad spot. No doubt about that.

Totally agree. As much as I respect Kerouac, I disagree with his assessment on Shipp. Shipp is an effective back, but definitely not a star. IMO he was hampered last year by a poorly designed running game. How many times did we see Leonard Davis pulling near the goal line last year? Ridiculous.

Shipp could be the 1,000 yard back this team needs in the shortrun. Obviously, we do need a better back, since runningback is such an important position. But Shipp is good enough to start in this league.

 

[BigRedMO]

QB is a far more complex position then WR. If you dont have a guy who can play QB it does not matter who you have running routes at WR. You need somebody who can read the defense, make smart decisions identify the open receiver and have the arm to get the ball to them. WRs just have to run their routes and gripe when they dont get the ball. That an hopefully they can recognize a blitz and adjust their route.

 

[Pariah]

I see 4000 yards for Josh if they do (-:

 

[BACH]

Totally agree. As much as I respect Kerouac, I disagree with his assessment on Shipp. Shipp is an effective back, but definitely not a star. IMO he was hampered last year by a poorly designed running game. How many times did we see Leonard Davis pulling near the goal line last year? Ridiculous.

Shipp could be the 1,000 yard back this team needs in the shortrun. Obviously, we do need a better back, since runningback is such an important position. But Shipp is good enough to start in this league.

Agree...

Shipp produced big time in a couple of games withous help from the passing games. He has shown enough to be the starter. He not the premier back that can set up the pass, but he should benefit a lot from the expected improvement of the passing game. Shipp will be a 1000 yard rushing with only marginal improvement of the passing game/offensive line.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Well the part I'm talking about is on the field. He got better last year, as the year went on we saw less of the deer in the headlights from him.

The point I'm trying to make is the expectations and pressure are a LOT different as a starter than as a backup. People overlook a lot of things in backups because of the circumstances, Blake plays poorly, team is way behind, Josh comes in and hits the LT in the face, who cares Blake stunk I'm just glad he's out of the game. But when Josh is the starter and does something like that it will be seen differently. I'm sure his teammates are behind him, and I'm sure Green is and he's in a much better coaching situation now, but he's never been in a pressure situation as a football player before, the most pressure he's ever seen is playoffs at Sam Houston State. It's just impossible to predict how he'll react.

Early in his NFL career under pressure he made some glaringly bad decisions, hopefully he's got that nervous streak behind him, because a nervous starting QB can bury a team in a hurry.

Totally agree with K9 about the run game but as we've all seen before, run game is as dependent on the pass game as the other way around. with our WR's anybody playing 8 man fronts should be picked apart mercilessly by the pass game. I for one really hope teams try to play 8 man fronts against us this year I just don't see how they can with the talent we will have at WR.

Not that I disagree with you but I want to throw this in. Would IYO the touchdown at the end of the Minnie game be enough pressure.

I realize that the throw to LJ's head was a bonehead move and Josh was nervous as hell but I think we have to cut him someslack in this particular case.

Things that I have heard on this board that makes me want to believe Josh is the answer-

He improved from one game to the next over the last three games last season.

He was able to withstand the pressure and bring the Cards back to win in the final seconds vs. Minnie

Reports during Mini Camps are that Josh is leaps and bounds ahead of King and Parsons

He will get the Majority of the snaps at camp

He will get the Majority of the snaps during preseason

 

[Pariah]

He will get the Majority of the snaps during preseason

It's nit-picking, but when has a starter EVER received the majority of snaps in the pre-season? Ususally they're out after a couple of series in the first game, in the second they play a quarter, the third about a half and maybe 3/4 by the fourth game.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

It's nit-picking, but when has a starter EVER received the majority of snaps in the pre-season? Ususally they're out after a couple of series in the first game, in the second they play a quarter, the third about a half and maybe 3/4 by the fourth game.

Okay maybe you right about that.

 

[AZCB34]

It's nit-picking, but when has a starter EVER received the majority of snaps in the pre-season? Ususally they're out after a couple of series in the first game, in the second they play a quarter, the third about a half and maybe 3/4 by the fourth game.

He will, however, get the majority in TC which can only help continue is growth process as a starter.

 

[BACH]

It's nit-picking, but when has a starter EVER received the majority of snaps in the pre-season? Ususally they're out after a couple of series in the first game, in the second they play a quarter, the third about a half and maybe 3/4 by the fourth game.

The starter receives the majority of snaps and runs the 1st team in practice. That where the QB and his receivers get in sync in terms of routes, timing and adjustments. They get that in practice, NOT playing against another teams 2nd string defense in pre-season.

 

[vikesfan]

I think he's okay. I also think we'll really regret not taking Leftwich last year or Reothlisberger this year.

Dude you cannot stick the Leftwich thing on the DG era that was pre-DG anything that happened before is a moot point. Even if Ben becomes a pro bowl QB it might not have been the right move for this team. You can't draft everyone as long as the guy you takes does well you did okay.

 

[az1965]

Maybe the poll should read "How do you feel about ____ as our QB with Green as HC?" (fill in the blanks with QB of your choice)