How Great is the 2017 draft class?

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The thing is that the picture does not show the actual release point or motion. Ball's motion is coming across his body left to right while Steph's is straight forward.

That said, I think Ball shoots that way because he is left eye dominant and right handed. The arc and rotation are good, so I would not mess with it.

Never even thought about that. Would make a lot of sense if it is true.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Everyone is talking about the guards in this draft class but in 10 years, IMO, we'll look back and realize that the trio of Markkanen, Josh Collins and Jonathan Isaac were every bit as good as the point guards. I don't know how to make it happen but I'd love to draft Ball and any of those 3 bigger players.

 

[Mainstreet]

Everyone is talking about the guards in this draft class but in 10 years, IMO, we'll look back and realize that the trio of Markkanen, Josh Collins and Jonathan Isaac were every bit as good as the point guards. I don't know how to make it happen but I'd love to draft Ball and any of those 3 bigger players.

Who would have thought the Suns would be in position to draft Chriss after the Bender pick so who knows.

 

[Russ Smith]

Josh Jackson with a big game today. 31 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists and some clutch scoring late in the game to get the win.

My favorite non UCLA player in the country. I know scouts worry about his shot but that kid is a baller.

 

[Russ Smith]

Everyone is talking about the guards in this draft class but in 10 years, IMO, we'll look back and realize that the trio of Markkanen, Josh Collins and Jonathan Isaac were every bit as good as the point guards. I don't know how to make it happen but I'd love to draft Ball and any of those 3 bigger players.

Do you mean Zach Collins from Gonzaga or Josh Jackson from Kansas? I love both although I don't think Collins will come out this year

 

[AzStevenCal]

Do you mean Zach Collins from Gonzaga or Josh Jackson from Kansas? I love both although I don't think Collins will come out this year

Yeah, thanks, I meant Zach. I'd love to get Jackson too, I was just pointing out that there was far more of value than just PGs in this class. I have no idea if Collins will come out this season but I suspect despite his limited minutes and unfinished frame that he'll be a lottery pick if he does come out this season.

 

[slinslin]

Jackson has been super impressive lately and yesterday.

I still would not trust his shot and he is a year older than the other freshman. I like Jayson Tatum as the safer pick but Jackson would be good too.

 

[GatorAZ]

Jackson shooting over 40% from 3 in conference play.

DSJ takes off from the emblem.

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[CardsSunsDbacks]

Man Lonzo Ball is good. Is there anything he can't do or anytime that he actually makes the wrong decision. Not today that's for sure.

 

[Russ Smith]

There's actually another freshman PG not getting much national attention who's really good, Marcus Lovett Jr at St Johns.

He's a scoring PG, only 6 foot tall, 3.9 assists but a really interesting kid and I hear he fully intends to go pro. He played HS ball in LA kept changing schools and homeschool, wound up in Chicago, and is at St Johns now. Had to sit out last year academically ineligible, turns 21 in a month and everyone thinks he's going pro

 

[slinslin]

Favorite draft combinations at this point to me

1. Fultz + Tatum
2. Fultz + Jackson
3. Ball + Tatum
4. Smith + Tatum
5. Smith + Jackson
6. Fultz + Isaac
7. Ball + Isaac
8. Smith + Isaac
9. Ball + Jackson
10. Tatum + Fox
11. Isaac + Fox
12. Jackson + Fox


I also like

SF/PF Miles Bridges - Michigan
F/C Robert Williams - Texas AM
C - Bam Adebayo - Kentucky
C Harry Giles - Duke ( as a late flyer because he will slip due to injury red flags and rough freshman season)

PG.
1. Fultz, good size, skills that don't project a real flaw
2. Ball/Smith, stylistically completely different, Smith is more explosive, better at breaking down a defense himself, Ball is better as facilitator
3. Smith/Ball
4. Fox, can't shoot but great defender, athletic
5. Nkiltina, very hard to judge, FIBA basketball PG is completely different than NCAA/NBA PG.

SG. poor class
1. Monk, undersized shooter, scorer, athletic
2. Fultz,
3. Ball,
4. Terrance Ferguson, hard to put in perspective plays in Australia
5. Grayson Allen, productive college scorer, future bench player

SF.
1. Tatum, well rounded player, very good touch, should develop a nice 3pt shot, bit selfish sometimes
2. Jackson, a year older, well rounded smart athletic defender and passer but red flag shooting is in my opinion a bigger concern than ball stopping with Tatum is
3. Isaac, tall, long, skinny forward with a good touch
4. Miles Bridges, tweener
5. Og Anuoby, project, lacks offensive skills

PF. - poor class
1. Lauri Markannen, specialist at #1 says all you need to know about this PF class, poor rebounder, does not get blocks or steals
2. Robert Williams, productive, high potential and athleticism but lacking skills
3. Isaiah Hartenstein, project
4. TJ Leaf, specialist
5. Ivan Rabb, should have come out last year

C.
1. Harry Giles, injury history, rough freshman season
2. Bam Adebayo,
3. Justin Patton
4. John Collins
5. Thomas Bryant

 

[JCSunsfan]

Curios about why Jackson's shooting is a red flag? He is shooting over 50% from 2 and 36% from 3 (24 of 66 so not just a few attempts). His free throw shooting is bad, but that is all.

 

[Russ Smith]

Curious what you think Leaf is a specialist at? He's actually not a good 3 point shooter the college line is right at the edge of his range right now. he made one last night but it was the first one in 5 games. He has a weird release he turns his hand, his midrange is good and he's money on the low block, uses the glass and can shoot with either hand, but the mechanics on his 3 put spin on the ball. Needs another year to get stronger, extend his range and learn how to defend(very weak there) but he'll go.

Also lots of noise Ike Anigbogu will come out and be a first rounder. Great athlete but very raw, again needs another year, terrific student so that's the hope on him staying.

Rabb and Boucher are dropping. IN fairness to Rabb everyone doubles him as soon as he gets the ball, he's a very good player stayed for the right reasons, family, but would have gone higher since this is a loaded draft.

 

[slinslin]

Curios about why Jackson's shooting is a red flag? He is shooting over 50% from 2 and 36% from 3 (24 of 66 so not just a few attempts). His free throw shooting is bad, but that is all.

Because he shoots 57% from the freethrow line and FT% has actually proven to be a better indicator for how well shooting translates to the NBA level.

While 3pt% from college to NBA is not a good indicator at all.

Justise Winslow is a good example of this. Shot 43% from 3 in college, is one of the worst shooters in the entire NBA.

Capable shooters don't struggle like that on freethrows.

 

[slinslin]

Curious what you think Leaf is a specialist at? He's actually not a good 3 point shooter the college line is right at the edge of his range right now. he made one last night but it was the first one in 5 games. He has a weird release he turns his hand, his midrange is good and he's money on the low block, uses the glass and can shoot with either hand, but the mechanics on his 3 put spin on the ball. Needs another year to get stronger, extend his range and learn how to defend(very weak there) but he'll go.

Because Leaf offers so little on the defensive end, his niche will be developing into a scorer maybe stretch 4 specialist ala Ryan Anderson. That is why I call him a specialist, nice bench option to have, don't think he is NBA starter material.

I'd actually agree with Givony here the draft is top heavy and strong in the top 10, the depth is not so great however especially if some of the underclassmen don't declare.

There is probably Fultz, Ball, Smith, Jackson, Tatum and Isaac in the first tier.

Then maybe you could add Monk to that list. But besides those I don't see player with top tier potential. If Fox does not develop a jumpshot he is basically Elfrid Payton. Hartenstein is a project like Bender. Nkiltina is a complete dice roll.

Besides Monk I don't see a real SG prospect, center position is all about gambles and the power forward position only has some solid guys.

I mean Lauri Markkannen is probably the best power forward option and the guy is a no-factor as a 7 footer other than shooting. 7 rebounds per 30 minutes is mediocre for him and he gets no steals and no blocks that is a serious red flag when it comes to translating to the NBA.

Markkannen actually really deserves the specialist niche label.

 

[Russ Smith]

Because Leaf offers so little on the defensive end, his niche will be developing into a scorer maybe stretch 4 specialist ala Ryan Anderson. That is why I call him a specialist, nice bench option to have, don't think he is NBA starter material.

I'd actually agree with Givony here the draft is top heavy and strong in the top 10, the depth is not so great however especially if some of the underclassmen don't declare.

There is probably Fultz, Ball, Smith, Jackson, Tatum and Isaac in the first tier.

Then maybe you could add Monk to that list. But besides those I don't see player with top tier potential. If Fox does not develop a jumpshot he is basically Elfrid Payton. Hartenstein is a project like Bender. Nkiltina is a complete dice roll.

Besides Monk I don't see a real SG prospect, center position is all about gambles and the power forward position only has some solid guys.

I mean Lauri Markkannen is probably the best power forward option and the guy is a no-factor as a 7 footer other than shooting. 7 rebounds per 30 minutes is mediocre for him and he gets no steals and no blocks that is a serious red flag when it comes to translating to the NBA.

Markkannen actually really deserves the specialist niche label.

I guess when I hear specialist I think shooter, defender, shot blocker, passer etc not scorer. Leaf has great touch around the rim I think the contact and size at the NBA level might negate that. He has major holes his range now is about 19 feet, he can make a 3 but give him 3 wide open ones he'll make 1. He's just starting to figure out everyone has a book on him, wants to go right, if he goes left he'll pull up and shoot the jumper. In the last 2 games he's gone left about 5 times and got layups because the defense is so surprised he went left and didn't pull up. Great hands, even as skinny as he is he's a terrific rebounder because his hands are so good.

Markkanen is terrific but major slump now, 4 straight games in single digits.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I mean Lauri Markkannen is probably the best power forward option and the guy is a no-factor as a 7 footer other than shooting. 7 rebounds per 30 minutes is mediocre for him and he gets no steals and no blocks that is a serious red flag when it comes to translating to the NBA.

Markkannen actually really deserves the specialist niche label.

7.2 rebounds per 30 minutes is far from mediocre for a player that spends most of his time on the perimeter and especially so when you consider pace (UA averages 75 points per game). He's playing for one of the best teams in college and he easily leads them in rebounds. Blocks and steals are another matter and of some concern but given that we are talking about a stretch 4, a fairly new trend in the game, analyzing him using those historically relevant measurements means somewhat less than it has in the past.

When he has his "legs", he's the best shooting big man in college and I have no doubt he'll be the same at the next level. And I'd never call an efficient and effective scorer a specialist. And neither should you, unless you consider winning to be a specialty. IMO, if winning is your goal - Markkanen, Ball and Jackson are the class of this class.

 

[Russ Smith]

7.2 rebounds per 30 minutes is far from mediocre for a player that spends most of his time on the perimeter and especially so when you consider pace (UA averages 75 points per game). He's playing for one of the best teams in college and he easily leads them in rebounds. Blocks and steals are another matter and of some concern but given that we are talking about a stretch 4, a fairly new trend in the game, analyzing him using those historically relevant measurements means somewhat less than it has in the past.

When he has his "legs", he's the best shooting big man in college and I have no doubt he'll be the same at the next level. And I'd never call an efficient and effective scorer a specialist. And neither should you, unless you consider winning to be a specialty. IMO, if winning is your goal - Markkanen, Ball and Jackson are the class of this class.

Markkanen is a matchup nightmare, he's such a good shooter you have to extend on him.

 

[slinslin]

IMO, if winning is your goal - Markkanen, Ball and Jackson are the class of this class.

That is ridiculous.

If Fultz chose Kansas, UofA or another top program he would be winning too.

Kansas, UofA and UCLA are perennial tournament teams.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That is ridiculous.

If Fultz chose Kansas, UofA or another top program he would be winning too.

Kansas, UofA and UCLA are perennial tournament teams.

I am not sure winning is a huge factor positive factor. But losing is a negative factor. If Fultz is so good, why is his team SOOOOOO bad?

 

[slinslin]

I am not sure winning is a huge factor positive factor. But losing is a negative factor. If Fultz is so good, why is his team SOOOOOO bad?

because his team is himself and no other player with pro-basketball hopes and Washington does not run a system that racks up easy wins without talent.

Does anyone want to argue that Anthony Davis is freaking good?

 

[JCSunsfan]

because his team is himself and no other player with pro-basketball hopes and Washington does not run a system that racks up easy wins without talent.

Does anyone want to argue that Anthony Davis is freaking good?

He won a national championship didn't he?

 

[slinslin]

He won a national championship didn't he?

And what is he winning now? He is a top 5 player and consistently in the early lottery.

 

[Russ Smith]

That is ridiculous.

If Fultz chose Kansas, UofA or another top program he would be winning too.

Kansas, UofA and UCLA are perennial tournament teams.

Last year UCLA was sub .500.

 

[Russ Smith]

And what is he winning now? He is a top 5 player and consistently in the early lottery.

NBA is totally different than college though. #1 overall picks in a good draft not even making the tournament isn't something that happens regularly.

I'm not saying Fultz is a loser but UW ought to be better than they are.