How Great is the 2017 draft class?

AzStevenCal

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There was this floppy hair kid from Canada who was a pretty decent passer...

Yes he was. Ball is even more impressive IMO, at passing, anyway. He isn't the threat to drive and dish in traffic that Steve was but this kid just moves the ball to the right guy, instantly, and usually to great effect.
 

leclerc

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I'm day dreaming right now about how Ball will make Warren and Booker average 25 ppg. Suddenly Olivia Wilde is wearing Suns merch.

That Steve Dash was a good one, even though he was only 5'3 girls could not resist to stare.
 

JCSunsfan

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So, if the Suns draft Lonzo Ball, do they try to fix that jump shot? Its really funky, but he is shooting 44% from 3.

I say no. He doesn't seem to have any problem getting it off. So I would just not worry about it. I just don't want to watch him shoot it. Its really ugly.

Ball is Jason Kidd with a jump shot. Fultz plays alot like Westbrook.
 

AzStevenCal

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So, if the Suns draft Lonzo Ball, do they try to fix that jump shot? Its really funky, but he is shooting 44% from 3.

I say no. He doesn't seem to have any problem getting it off. So I would just not worry about it. I just don't want to watch him shoot it. Its really ugly.

Ball is Jason Kidd with a jump shot. Fultz plays alot like Westbrook.

I was watching the UCLA game last night and started thinking about his shot and whether it would be worth it to tinker. Anyway, a few minutes into the game I decided what the heck, it has good arc and nice rotation and it works for him so why mess with it. It crossed my mind that another UCLA great got by with an unusual shooting motion and his shot was so smooth they nicknamed him Silk. It was only fitting that about 5 minutes later the cameraman found Jamaal in the audience.
 

hcsilla

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I was watching the UCLA game last night and started thinking about his shot and whether it would be worth it to tinker. Anyway, a few minutes into the game I decided what the heck, it has good arc and nice rotation and it works for him so why mess with it. It crossed my mind that another UCLA great got by with an unusual shooting motion and his shot was so smooth they nicknamed him Silk. It was only fitting that about 5 minutes later the cameraman found Jamaal in the audience.

Shame or not, I have never heard about Jamaal Wilkes. Geez, he also had unorthodox jumpshot.

But his shooting motions starts from way behind while Ball starts it from his chest which makes it very vulnerable against shotblocking.

Ball is a special talent but I doubt that he will succeed without completely reforming his jumpshot. If he gets a (pro) jumpshot, he might become the taller edition of combining the Suns' and Mavericks' versions of Jason Kidd.

He is a special talent.

The thing of beauty would be Fultz and Ball in the same backcourt.
 

JCSunsfan

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I was watching the UCLA game last night and started thinking about his shot and whether it would be worth it to tinker. Anyway, a few minutes into the game I decided what the heck, it has good arc and nice rotation and it works for him so why mess with it. It crossed my mind that another UCLA great got by with an unusual shooting motion and his shot was so smooth they nicknamed him Silk. It was only fitting that about 5 minutes later the cameraman found Jamaal in the audience.
Since I do a fair amount of shooting (as in guns), I wonder if Ball is right handed but left eye dominant. It is a tricky thing to overcome when shooting guns. It also might explain why some players just cannot develop a reliable jump shot. It would explain why Lonzo's form works and why trying to fix it might never work.


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He's stuck with that shot for good. Can't believe his power strung dad didn't hire someone to work with it.
 

Mainstreet

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Lonzo, Monk and Tatum are the guys that will be in our area if the standings project to where they're now IMO. Fultz, Smith and Jackson seem like the elite guys right now.

Boston is the favorite to land the #1 as Brooklyn has the worst record by 2.5 games.

It looks likely the Suns will be drafting later than the first several picks, probably somewhere around #6.

It's fun talking about the top players but I'd like to know more about players around this slot like Malik Monk, especially if he can play both guard positions, and some of the SF/SG type players. I don't get much of a chance to watch college basketball players.

Also PG Frank Ntilikina sounds intriguing.
 

leclerc

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I'm scared of guards who can play both positions. I want specialists at this point. A distributor or a shooter with size who does not dominate the ball. Enough tweeters!
 

slinslin

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I'm scared of guards who can play both positions. I want specialists at this point. A distributor or a shooter with size who does not dominate the ball. Enough tweeters!

BS

you dont want Ricky Rubio instead of Westbrook, Lillard etc.. All elite top players are high usage playerl - Harden, Westbrook, Curry..
 

leclerc

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If we're picking clear cut talent sure but in the middle of the draft it's something else. I've had enough combo guards for a while.
 

DWKB

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You can make the argument that anyone is a streaker shooter by pointing out a few bad games. 49/113 (43%) is a large enough sample to determine whether a guy is consistent or not.

Overall shooting % doesn't inform "streaky" or "consistent" because it's an avg.

Last 6 games for Monk 3Pt:

UNC: 8-12 (.667)
Louisville: 1-9 (.111)
Miss: 5-7 (.714)
A&M: 5-7 (.714)
Arkansas: 0-5 (.000)
Vandy: 1-4 (.250)

Definition of "streaky" IMO.
 

Russ Smith

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So, if the Suns draft Lonzo Ball, do they try to fix that jump shot? Its really funky, but he is shooting 44% from 3.

I say no. He doesn't seem to have any problem getting it off. So I would just not worry about it. I just don't want to watch him shoot it. Its really ugly.

Ball is Jason Kidd with a jump shot. Fultz plays alot like Westbrook.


UCLA messed with it this summer before the Aussie tour and he shot terribly there. When he came back they basically said this is stupid he's a one and done, shoot the way you're comfortable you have years in the NBA to fix that. he shot in the low 30's from 3 in HS but anybody that saw Chino play knew why, they take a ton of bad shots. You knew UCLA wasn't going to let him jack up 35 footers on the break regularly. It has become almost a cliche though for him to hit a 32 footer to beat the halftime buzzer he's done it like 3-4 times now including the UK one, but he was taking that shot 3-4 times a game in HS. So taking better shots has helped his 3%, and he's also tweaked it he turns his feet counter clockwise to they're pointing at like 9 or 10 pm which squares the elbow up better.

He could have problems getting it off in the NBA with better size and athletes but so far has not been an issue. I've seen him get a 3 blocked twice this year and on replay both were obvious fouls, including once against UK where both announcers immediately said how did they not call that foul.

He virtually never makes a 2 point jumpshot, either 3's or layups or dunks.

The real revelation on Ball is he's a much better athlete than people realized in HS, better leaper, quicker, faster, he's already becoming one of UCLA's best defenders despite being asked to guard 3's and now at times 4's. He's just a winner, after the Oregon loss they were talking to Alford about what the team needed and he said we need to tighten up defensive rebounding, and we need to force more To's we need more ball pressure. the 3 games since that loss 17 rebounds(about his average) and 7 steals(about 1 over his average) and in the last game Ball had 4 deflections that weren't steals and caused 2 more To's by jumping a passing lane and causing a travel. It's almost freakish you ask him to do something and he just does it. He even has 18 blocks on the season. There are holes in his game and he'll take time to adjust to the NBA but I have no doubt he'll be a very good NBA player.
 

Russ Smith

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Shame or not, I have never heard about Jamaal Wilkes. Geez, he also had unorthodox jumpshot.

But his shooting motions starts from way behind while Ball starts it from his chest which makes it very vulnerable against shotblocking.

Ball is a special talent but I doubt that he will succeed without completely reforming his jumpshot. If he gets a (pro) jumpshot, he might become the taller edition of combining the Suns' and Mavericks' versions of Jason Kidd.

He is a special talent.

The thing of beauty would be Fultz and Ball in the same backcourt.


Watch tape of kevin Martin, the shot is similar although he starts it lower than martin did
 

Russ Smith

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He's stuck with that shot for good. Can't believe his power strung dad didn't hire someone to work with it.


All 3 sons have totally different mechanics. I don't think the dad is a private coach type of guy they all basically just learned to play from dad or on their own.

I still say the most valuable things the dad did was one give him confidence, that kid is afraid of nothign, and two, they didn't play him in AAU ball nearly as much as the average kid these days. He skipped lots of big events, when they did play it wasn't some superstar assembled AAU team it was the local kids from Chino. I have a friend who's a HS coach and his comment on AAU is "AAU ball teaches kids to NOT hate losing." they play so many games that you lose all the time, even the best players, and they get used to it. Ball went over a year without losing in HS, they lost a game in Australia and then he took over the team and said I hate losing. They lost to Oregon and then he stepped up. He's a competitor, so many kids that come out of the AAU machine don't seem to have that anymore.
 

elindholm

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Overall shooting % doesn't inform "streaky" or "consistent" because it's an avg.

Last 6 games for Monk 3Pt:

...

Definition of "streaky" IMO.

You'd have to do some pretty hardcore statistical analysis to establish that one 50% shooter is streakier than another one. It's much more likely that "streakiness" is a myth reinforced by confirmation bias.
 

DWKB

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You'd have to do some pretty hardcore statistical analysis to establish that one 50% shooter is streakier than another one. It's much more likely that "streakiness" is a myth reinforced by confirmation bias.

Wouldn't you just need to establish the standard dev from the mean of their shooting? Those with higher std dev's would be streakier.
 

BleedRed

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At what point do we dump the vets and tank to ensure we get a top the 3 pick? Don't really understand the logic at this point in not playing our youth more.
 

overseascardfan

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At what point do we dump the vets and tank to ensure we get a top the 3 pick? Don't really understand the logic at this point in not playing our youth more.
As soon as PHX can get late lotto to mid first round pick offers for Bledsoe and Knight. If you can get a mid first rounder for Chandler that would be a coup.
 

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If Bledsoe is on the block you'd have to think his value is at least a late lotto. I'm a Bledsoe fan, but with the crop of pgs in the upcoming draft and us being at least a year or two away from competing in the west I'm all in on trading him if value is found. Knight, Chandler, and Tucker need to be shipped out as well.
 

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All 3 sons have totally different mechanics. I don't think the dad is a private coach type of guy they all basically just learned to play from dad or on their own.

I still say the most valuable things the dad did was one give him confidence, that kid is afraid of nothign, and two, they didn't play him in AAU ball nearly as much as the average kid these days. He skipped lots of big events, when they did play it wasn't some superstar assembled AAU team it was the local kids from Chino. I have a friend who's a HS coach and his comment on AAU is "AAU ball teaches kids to NOT hate losing." they play so many games that you lose all the time, even the best players, and they get used to it. Ball went over a year without losing in HS, they lost a game in Australia and then he took over the team and said I hate losing. They lost to Oregon and then he stepped up. He's a competitor, so many kids that come out of the AAU machine don't seem to have that anymore.

They do seem very confident but I think it's a bad look anytime a father labels their kids 1 & done before they step foot in college. Let the kid have some choice in the matter.
 

Russ Smith

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They do seem very confident but I think it's a bad look anytime a father labels their kids 1 & done before they step foot in college. Let the kid have some choice in the matter.


Yeah I think that's just his personality though, it's clearly true with Lonzo but I don't think anybody believes Gelo is going to be one, he'll have to play 4 years and even then I think at best he plays overseas, he's actually a TE playing basketball IMO.

Melo has a chance but I don't see a one and done in him yet, 15 year old soph is in a growth spurt now but I don't see one and done. I saw Lonzo as a freshman you could just tell with him.

The dad certainly has some stuff, when Gelo was a freshman at Chino Lonzo was the soph star and the coach wanted Gelo as the 6th man but the dad insisted Gelo had to start so he did. That won't be an option at UCLA because Lonzo will be gone.

Side note continues to amaze me how little hype Josh Jackson is getting. the kid is now playing the 4 at Kansas due to their big man injuries and issues and he's still playing his butt off. Has to improve his outside shot but that kid is going to be a terrific NBA player. I don't think he's as athletic as Wiggins but much more of a competitor at the same age, plays harder, just about my favorite non UCLA player in college right now love to watch that kid.
 

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