How many remaining coaches have to be fired before you believe Wiz has control ?

[kerouac9]

Drafting, FAs ?

How? Isn't Rod Graves the guy who's been in charge of drafting and free agency since he was named VP of Football Operations? Isn't that what it says in his job description and what he said at the Dennis Green press conference?

10 of the draft choices of the Denny Green era were on the defensive side of the ball, including 5 first-day draft choices. Of the free agent signings, all of the marquee guys were defensive except for Edge James (Berry, Okeafor, Macklin, Griffith, Clancy). But, again, it was Rod Graves that was in charge of these decisions.

As for last season, I agree with Joe that it's not fair to hang Green or Graves on that Petzguy, since reportedly it was ownership that turned off the money spout after #32 was on board.

As for coaches, I think that probably four is a good number to consider tossing overboard. Brooks, Courtwright, Kruczek, and Wilson would be a good start.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

As long as he keeps loney around, he can do what he wants IMO...

 

[Ryanwb]

Whoever makes the CB's drop off the line of scrimmage 10 yards and gives absolutely no bump to the WR's should have been fired. That is the dumbest thing I have ever seen

 

[joeshmo]

Whoever makes the CB's drop off the line of scrimmage 10 yards and gives absolutely no bump to the WR's should have been fired. That is the dumbest thing I have ever seen

Green Made him do it.

 

[Stout]

I wouldn't be surpised to see shakeup in the offensive side.

What I don't know is how well CP really did. How much of it was related to DG.I would be asking CP what he would like to change and why. I really would be interviewing him and comparing him to possible alternatives. That RG seems to like him suggests that there may be a feeling thatCP may have been hadicapped by working for DG.

I just don't believe Wiz would have signed here if he was coming into a bad situation, that makes zero sense. He had options all over the league and Pitt seems upset he left. So it's not that I am backing the FO, it's that I trust our new HC.

Well, I think the benchmark is Pendy. It is very clear that management thinks highly of him, and I think it is a logical conclusion that they would try hard to have him retained, not because of money, but because, right or wrong, they believe in him. I think if he stays, it is probably because management WANTS him to stay.

I bolded your above statement because I think that is the main fear about Pendy. I know it is my main fear regarding his abilities. We have no way of knowing if he can change and, quite frankly, stop coaching his defense scared and become aggressive. I'm of the opinion that we get rid of the unproven commodity and bring in a defensive mind that the HC is more comfortable with.

 

[Codeofhammurabi]

I personally don't believe Whiz whould have accepted the job if he was forced to accept current assistants.

I agree, I doubt he would come here with the reputation that the Bidwills have, without some control in this area.

 

[Sandan]

We should have DC the HC want's.

If that is CP, then so be it, if not then I'm happy with that as well.

 

[Stout]

We should have DC the HC want's.

If that is CP, then so be it, if not then I'm happy with that as well.

Given that HCs, throughout the history of the league, almost always fail to hire the outgoing DC, and the idea that HCs like bringing in their guys, and of course the fact that Graves and staff like Pendy so much and that HE, not the HC, would make a decision along with the coach's input, all add up to one thing: Pendy wasn't simply Whiz's decision. I know, I know. You're going to cry foul and say we can't know that for sure. No, just like we can't know for sure that Billy Boy has meddled overmuch in the past, but we know it is the case. C'mon, Nidan. Do you seriously think Pendy would have been Whiz's first choice if he had been let go?

 

[Billy Flynt]

If new HCs KOing all the ACs were the SOP in the NFL would we have this thread on ASFN?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

FYI - As of today on site:

Coaches

Ken Whisenhunt Head Coach

Daryl Lawrence Strength and Conditioning

Steve Wetzel Strength and Conditioning

Keith Vulgamott Strength and Conditioning Assistant

Clancy Pendergast Defensive Coordinator (keep - IMO)

Steve Loney Offensive Line Coach (keep - IMO)

Frank Bush Assistant Head Coach/Linebackers (keep - IMO as LB Coach)[/B

Mike Wilson Receivers (keep - IMO)[/B

Larry Brooks Defensive Line Coach (keep - IMO)[/B

Rick Courtright Defensive Quality Control ???

Mike Kruczek Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks (keep - IMO - as QB coach)[/B

Needed: Offensive Coordinator - RB coach -TE coach - DB Coach - Special teams

Note: Whis / Graves will have the opportunity to use the Asst head coach role (promotion) to attract a present day O-coordinator, for example.

 

[Stout]

If new HCs KOing all the ACs were the SOP in the NFL would we have this thread on ASFN?

Up until this year, you could count on one hand the number of times it had happened before so, no, it sure in the heck isn't SOP. Maybe it'll become a trend, but if so, it's a dangerous one, IMO.

 

[Mulli]

Is there an index for ASFN abbreviations?

 

[Billy Flynt]

Is there an index for ASFN abbreviations?

LOL, no.

 

[Sandan]

A more important point is to understand what you are actually saying.

This isn't about CP is it ?

of course the fact that Graves and staff like Pendy so much and that HE, not the HC, would make a decision along with the coach's input, all add up to one thing: Pendy wasn't simply Whiz's decision.

First you complain that RG is proactive enough, now when he makes a point of publicly saying he has the final say, you trash him for it.

Your comment is incorrect in several ways. First we do not know yet if CP will be retained. Secondly, you wanted a GM in control, well now you have one.

No, just like we can't know for sure that Billy Boy has meddled overmuch in the past, but we know it is the case.

This comment really shows what you are complaining about.

It isn't CP, it's that you believe RG is nothing but a yes man for BB Snr. Threfore nothing he does will meet with your approval as you will interpret it as just being a front man for BB Snr.

Nidan. Do you seriously think Pendy would have been Whiz's first choice if he had been let go?

If I had been in RG's position I would have most likely done the exact same thing. Fire the ACs I was sure I did not want to keep and retain the others until the new HC had a chance to talk with them.

Will RG have input sure he will, he has known these guys for a few years. Why on earth would you fire them until Wiz had a chance to decide if he want's them or not ?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

How many have to be fired?

Just one. Pendy.

 

[conraddobler]

A more important point is to understand what you are actually saying.

This isn't about CP is it ?



First you complain that RG is proactive enough, now when he makes a point of publicly saying he has the final say, you trash him for it.

Your comment is incorrect in several ways. First we do not know yet if CP will be retained. Secondly, you wanted a GM in control, well now you have one.



This comment really shows what you are complaining about.

It isn't CP, it's that you believe RG is nothing but a yes man for BB Snr. Threfore nothing he does will meet with your approval as you will interpret it as just being a front man for BB Snr.



If I had been in RG's position I would have most likely done the exact same thing. Fire the ACs I was sure I did not want to keep and retain the others until the new HC had a chance to talk with them.

Will RG have input sure he will, he has known these guys for a few years. Why on earth would you fire them until Wiz had a chance to decide if he want's them or not ?

Nidan you're like a broken record here you keep saying why would we fire x or y until the new HC interviews them etc, making the point over and over and over that what we did retaining the assistants is the logical thing to do...

I don't know who you're arguing with or what you're trying to prove but I think everyone agrees with that.

Our point is simply the odds of someone comming in here as a new HC and on their own selecting CP out of the universe of possiblities on their own given his performance, and that of his unit over the last 3 years, while not impossible, certainly shades to the unlikely side.

We can't prove anything and you can't either Nidan, it's an opinion, we're entitled to ours and you are yours.

 

[40yearfan]

Nidan you're like a broken record here you keep saying why would we fire x or y until the new HC interviews them etc, making the point over and over and over that what we did retaining the assistants is the logical thing to do...

I don't know who you're arguing with or what you're trying to prove but I think everyone agrees with that.

Our point is simply the odds of someone comming in here as a new HC and on their own selecting CP out of the universe of possiblities on their own given his performance, and that of his unit over the last 3 years, while not impossible, certainly shades to the unlikely side.

We can't prove anything and you can't either Nidan, it's an opinion, we're entitled to ours and you are yours.

Sorry CD, but you are not entitled to your opinion. The opinion fairy has decided not to let you have any more opinions because you didn't brush your teeth last night. For the next day, you will only be allowed to have someone else's opinion. Please comply immediately.

 

[conraddobler]

Sorry CD, but you are not entitled to your opinion. The opinion fairy has decided not to let you have any more opinions because you didn't brush your teeth last night. For the next day, you will only be allowed to have someone else's opinion. Please comply immediately.

I brushed my teeth and flossed, sounds like the NFL official fairy flagging people for stuff they just made up.

Better yet it sounds like the wife fairy, in that case abandon all opinions and adopt a yes dear mentality, it's just easier.

 

[Mulli]

I brushed my teeth and flossed, sounds like the NFL official fairy flagging people for stuff they just made up.

Better yet it sounds like the wife fairy, in that case abandon all opinions and adopt a yes dear mentality, it's just easier.

Yes dear theory. I ask myself if I want to sleep indoors or outdoors tonight. Then I say, Yes Dear.

 

[Stout]

Nidan, I love the fact that RG seems to have gained some FO authority. With the new hire, I think we need that, as Denny probably had too much pull. The problem is, a GM (which he still isn't, by-the-by) should never, ever tell an incoming HC who to fill out his staff with. This should not be dictated. If Graves had said Pendy is being kept but that the coach would have complete say in if he stays or goes, then this would probably be a non-issue. Unfortunately, Graves made it clear that he has the final say. That seriously sticks in my craw. I love the Whiz hire. I think he'll make a great HC and that our offense will thrive under him. I just find the possibility that Whiz 100 percent wanted Pendy and no other DC incredible and ludicrous.

You dance around that issue nicely, and you STILL have not answered me. Do you think Pendy is Whiz's first choice DC? That, if he hadn't have been on staff, that's the guy he would have wanted? Can you answer that, please?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Given that HCs, throughout the history of the league, almost always fail to hire the outgoing DC, and the idea that HCs like bringing in their guys, and of course the fact that Graves and staff like Pendy so much and that HE, not the HC, would make a decision along with the coach's input, all add up to one thing: Pendy wasn't simply Whiz's decision. I know, I know. You're going to cry foul and say we can't know that for sure. No, just like we can't know for sure that Billy Boy has meddled overmuch in the past, but we know it is the case. C'mon, Nidan. Do you seriously think Pendy would have been Whiz's first choice if he had been let go?[/QUOTE]

almost always is not always.

you can deduce, you can suspect - but you can't know it is the case.

As to your final question. Nidan doesn't know, I don't know... and neither do you.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think Pendy,Brooks, and Bush on the defensive side of the ball all stay. On the offensive side i think Loney is the only one to stay. A new coach is going to want guys he's comfortable with. That's why i didn't begrudge DG for bringing in "his guys". Most coaches do that.I think this year will be a year for the current guys to prove themselves and if not they are gone.

 

[Sandan]

Do you think Pendy is Whiz's first choice DC? That, if he hadn't have been on staff, that's the guy he would have wanted? Can you answer that, please?

Depends what you mean by first choice.

Given unlimited options I suspect there any number of guys he would prefer to have. Most of those are unavailable for one reason or another.

Would CP be his 1st choice from folks available ? I have no idea. I would guess that he would at least be on the list of possible candidates.

I just have a really hard time believing that a guy like Wiz who had many options would have signed up for a bad deal. I suspect RG has suggested that he look at CP, I would also suspect that Wiz would do that on the grounds he has nothing to lose.

It seems to me like RG is approaching this process from in a businesslike fashion. He isn't dumping the folks he considers to have potential and by doing that he incrases Wiz's options not decreases them.

 

[Sandan]

For example the Steelers havn't fired their staff and Miami just reupped the DC prior to hiring a new HC. I also didn't hear of Atlanta or Oakland firing their staff yet.

So out of the teams who were looking for a new HC, none have fired their existing staff.

That kind of disproves your 'almost always' comment

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Nidan, I love the fact that RG seems to have gained some FO authority. With the new hire, I think we need that, as Denny probably had too much pull. The problem is, a GM (which he still isn't, by-the-by) should never, ever tell an incoming HC who to fill out his staff with. This should not be dictated. If Graves had said Pendy is being kept but that the coach would have complete say in if he stays or goes, then this would probably be a non-issue. Unfortunately, Graves made it clear that he has the final say. That seriously sticks in my craw. I love the Whiz hire. I think he'll make a great HC and that our offense will thrive under him. I just find the possibility that Whiz 100 percent wanted Pendy and no other DC incredible and ludicrous.

This is pretty much what I was getting at in the other thread. I agree 100%...