How would you feel...

[slanidrac16]

today if we were headed into this season with Whisenhunt,Kolb,Wells and the same coaching staff from 2012 compared to what and where we are now?

I was a Whiz supporter until the end of last season. I really believed something had to change. When the 2012 season ended I was already NOT looking forward to 2013.

But that has changed. Arians has brought some fresh air to this upcoming season. I'm clinging to hope beyond hope that he is at least able to come close to accomplishing this year what he helped accomplish last year in Indy.

He was part of a roster and coaching staff overhaul. He had a rookie QB. He then took over 3 games into the season and played a huge role at getting a TERRIBLE team from 2011 into the playoffs.

I know this is Arizona and things don't usually happen that way. However, can we really be worse this year than we were last year? The offense definitely will be somewhat omproved barring a crazy rash of injuries. The defense is a bit of a concern because of the change over but maybe an improved offense will offset a slight down turn on defense. It certainly has got to help if we score 100-150 more points this year.

Bottom line is I feel a whole lot better today than I did in January.


What say you?

 

[Heucrazy]

I'm a little worried about BA's all downfield all the time offense and this o-line. But at the same time no more Russ Grimm, so who knows?

 

[slanidrac16]

I felt we didn't go downfield enough last year. Then again, either our QB didn't have time and/or simply were not talented enough to read defenses and throw the ball accurately.

 

[LarryStalling]

I would have felt like we were a 4-12 team if Whiz was still here. Now I feel like if we can get a couple of breaks and no major injuries we could be 8 and 8.

 

[waterboy]

I'm hoping for 8 wins. Grimm's absence should be worth at least 3 additional wins every year.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

If Whiz and company had stayed, along with Rod Graves, along with Russ Grimm, Kevin Kolb, Adam Snyder, and the rest, I would have close to zero interest in the the upcoming season.

Last season was epically horrible for the Cardinals and with 8 decades of suck to compete with, that is quite an accomplishment. I almost wish there was a page of failure for this team to see how it compares with past Cardinals suckage. Was this team worse then the 2000 squad ? Could be, but my point is made on the talent on the field. The only thing that was worth watching was the defense and that would have eventually come undone when trying to have patience with that horrible offense.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bruce Arians and Ray Horton. That would have me at optimal interest.

Bruce Arians, Rob Moore, and Todd Bowles still has my interest way more than the past regime would have at this time, or any time for that matter.

BUT, I think the general belief in what this organization can do in one years time is overblown. I think this team will be more fun to watch, I think the team will be better, but I do not think this team is over .500 this season.

There are so many question marks on the roster, and so many things that you can hope go right, but it is quite a stretch to think everything will go as planned.

The offensive line still is what it is, and that is not very good, it is WAY better than last year, but if you multiple numbers that are close to zero then the result is not much of a leap in talent level. The line still is comprised of Levi Brown, Daryn College, and Lyle Sendlein.

We have no tight ends, and our running backs all have question marks.

On defense, it is a refurbish job. Did our cornerbacks get better ? Did our linebackers get better ? And there is no doubt our safeties got way worse, and the question for them is will they hold up ?

A lot of questions. A whole lot.

BUT, I am way more interested to see how this team unfolds over the next year. W/L are the most important thing, but for this season, seeing improvement throughout the year is just as important, IMHO.

And that is the question, will this team improve under the new staff.

 

[Cardsfanstl]

I am with you. Optomistic on this upcoming season. However the O line does leave me concerned. Hopefully they have this figured out.

 

[BigRedFan]

I wanted a complete house cleaning and that is just what we got, so I am happy. And happy about Palmer, about the best we could get with what was available. I made a posting end of last yr where I compiled all the ugly stats in 1 post and it was shocking just how bad this team really was last year. I'm glad now we got pasted by Seattle, that might have been the last straw.

today if we were headed into this season with Whisenhunt,Kolb,Wells and the same coaching staff from 2012 compared to what and where we are now?

I was a Whiz supporter until the end of last season. I really believed something had to change. When the 2012 season ended I was already NOT looking forward to 2013.

But that has changed. Arians has brought some fresh air to this upcoming season. I'm clinging to hope beyond hope that he is at least able to come close to accomplishing this year what he helped accomplish last year in Indy.

He was part of a roster and coaching staff overhaul. He had a rookie QB. He then took over 3 games into the season and played a huge role at getting a TERRIBLE team from 2011 into the playoffs.

I know this is Arizona and things don't usually happen that way. However, can we really be worse this year than we were last year? The offense definitely will be somewhat omproved barring a crazy rash of injuries. The defense is a bit of a concern because of the change over but maybe an improved offense will offset a slight down turn on defense. It certainly has got to help if we score 100-150 more points this year.

Bottom line is I feel a whole lot better today than I did in January.


What say you?

 

[Catfish]

I absolutely had a belly full of Whiz and Co. I had almost zero interest in yet another year of such waste and squandering. I can't imagine another situation in which there would be such distaste for me to remain a Cardinal's fan. It almost ruined me, (after all these years of Cardinal's football). I positively detested the manner in which that regime literally dismanteled a group that made a SB run, and tossed it to the winds for nothing.

We may not be a lot better than last year, but at least we are trying to get better instead of being bent on destruction. That gives me hope for fun football again.

 

[seesred]

I'm excited about the upcoming season. The new look offense RB,QB,oline will give our defense some time to rest when we don't go 3 and out most of the time. I'm not concerned about the changes in our D. For the most part we will be more aggressive up front. Pressure will bring more turnovers.

I don't know where we will finish, but I will enjoy what I watch!

GBR
40

 

[kerouac9]

I really don't agree with the premise of the original post. After a 5-11 season that featured a 9-game losing streak and the most hopeless offense in the NFL, changes were going to happen.

It's like asking how you would feel if we went into 2011 with Derek Anderson and Billy Davis still in their jobs. Still pretty crappy, but that was never going to happen (excited for this year's Eagles game, though).

Am I more excited with Steve Keim having control over the final 53 than Ken Whisenhunt? Yes.

Am I more excited about Carson Palmer being the starting QB than Kevin Kolb or John Skelton? Yes.

Am I more excited about Bruce Arians being the head coach than Ken Whisenhunt? Not so fast.

I'm not down with Bruce Arians the way many here were. AZCardinals.com has done a great job of fanning the flames of fan enthusiasm around Arians, but, IMO, he's made some shaky staff hires, and he's too eager to step in front of a microphone. Who are the jovial media hogs who are consistently successful coaching NFL teams?

I think there's a real open question about what Bruce Arians has taken away from his experiences with the Steelers and Colts. I'm interested in seeing how those experiences shaped him.

Ken Whisenhunt took from the Steelers the importance of having veteran players in starting roles and the importance of sticking with organizational decisions past the point of no return.

 

[iRobot]

I really don't agree with the premise of the original post. After a 5-11 season that featured a 9-game losing streak and the most hopeless offense in the NFL, changes were going to happen.

It's like asking how you would feel if we went into 2011 with Derek Anderson and Billy Davis still in their jobs. Still pretty crappy, but that was never going to happen (excited for this year's Eagles game, though).

Am I more excited with Steve Keim having control over the final 53 than Ken Whisenhunt? Yes.

Am I more excited about Carson Palmer being the starting QB than Kevin Kolb or John Skelton? Yes.

Am I more excited about Bruce Arians being the head coach than Ken Whisenhunt? Not so fast.

I'm not down with Bruce Arians the way many here were. AZCardinals.com has done a great job of fanning the flames of fan enthusiasm around Arians, but, IMO, he's made some shaky staff hires, and he's too eager to step in front of a microphone. Who are the jovial media hogs who are consistently successful coaching NFL teams?

I think there's a real open question about what Bruce Arians has taken away from his experiences with the Steelers and Colts. I'm interested in seeing how those experiences shaped him.

Ken Whisenhunt took from the Steelers the importance of having veteran players in starting roles and the importance of sticking with organizational decisions past the point of no return.

He is real eager to step in front of a microphone.. but if you had put in the years he has and finally got a head coaching job, you might be eager too.

That being said, I agree with your assessment.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I don't feel extremely confident about this season. I think it could take a whole year for the players to get the new system down to where it runs smoothly and effectively. We are still a couple players away from having a good team in my opinion, or at least a year away from the necessary experience some of our young players need. But the future looks much brighter. Hope is eternal. And then there is the remembrance that we are the Cardinals.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm hoping for 8 wins. Grimm's absence should be worth at least 3 additional wins every year.

I'm hoping for 1 win. If that happens, I'll start hoping for another.

Steve

 

[john h]

today if we were headed into this season with Whisenhunt,Kolb,Wells and the same coaching staff from 2012 compared to what and where we are now?

I was a Whiz supporter until the end of last season. I really believed something had to change. When the 2012 season ended I was already NOT looking forward to 2013.

But that has changed. Arians has brought some fresh air to this upcoming season. I'm clinging to hope beyond hope that he is at least able to come close to accomplishing this year what he helped accomplish last year in Indy.

He was part of a roster and coaching staff overhaul. He had a rookie QB. He then took over 3 games into the season and played a huge role at getting a TERRIBLE team from 2011 into the playoffs.

I know this is Arizona and things don't usually happen that way. However, can we really be worse this year than we were last year? The offense definitely will be somewhat omproved barring a crazy rash of injuries. The defense is a bit of a concern because of the change over but maybe an improved offense will offset a slight down turn on defense. It certainly has got to help if we score 100-150 more points this year.

Bottom line is I feel a whole lot better today than I did in January.


What say you?

This is normally the dead time of the year for football. For what ever reasons I feel a lot better about our team than since Warner left. Probably because we have some new management and especially because we have a real NFL QB. How he will perform is unknown but I feel good about him. I also like the fact we have a real NFL RB in Mendenhall. Maybe he has lost a few steps but is hopefully a lot better than our past RBs. I actually think we could win 9 games if we have no significant injuries and I think that Seattle and SF will drop off a little. Not that they want be good but not as good as last year. I thought the last two years we would be lucky to win 7 games but I am going to dream a little this year and think we will all be surprised. Also think Fitz will have some and play with renewed energy. Now sock it to me.

 

[PACardsFan]

I really don't agree with the premise of the original post. After a 5-11 season that featured a 9-game losing streak and the most hopeless offense in the NFL, changes were going to happen.

It's like asking how you would feel if we went into 2011 with Derek Anderson and Billy Davis still in their jobs. Still pretty crappy, but that was never going to happen (excited for this year's Eagles game, though).

Am I more excited with Steve Keim having control over the final 53 than Ken Whisenhunt? Yes.

Am I more excited about Carson Palmer being the starting QB than Kevin Kolb or John Skelton? Yes.

Am I more excited about Bruce Arians being the head coach than Ken Whisenhunt? Not so fast.

I'm not down with Bruce Arians the way many here were. AZCardinals.com has done a great job of fanning the flames of fan enthusiasm around Arians, but, IMO, he's made some shaky staff hires, and he's too eager to step in front of a microphone. Who are the jovial media hogs who are consistently successful coaching NFL teams?

I think there's a real open question about what Bruce Arians has taken away from his experiences with the Steelers and Colts. I'm interested in seeing how those experiences shaped him.

Ken Whisenhunt took from the Steelers the importance of having veteran players in starting roles and the importance of sticking with organizational decisions past the point of no return.

Great post! I couldn't agree more!

 

[Duckjake]

You guys crack me up. If the Cards had maintained the status quo most would be on here talking about how last season was an outlier because of all the injuries and that CKW took the Cards to the Superbowl so he deserves one more year at least and if Kolb could stay healthy we could contend for the division title.

And I'd have been down with that over hiring a bunch of old geezers and dismantling the Best Defense we'd had since 1994.

The only thing that saved this off season was Palmer dropping into our lap like manna from heaven.

Of course whatever I write about the Cards the opposite happens so...,,

 

[Mulli]

Duckjake forgot to mention 5-11 with 5-11 without Em.

 

[Catfish]

I really don't agree with the premise of the original post. After a 5-11 season that featured a 9-game losing streak and the most hopeless offense in the NFL, changes were going to happen.

It's like asking how you would feel if we went into 2011 with Derek Anderson and Billy Davis still in their jobs. Still pretty crappy, but that was never going to happen (excited for this year's Eagles game, though).

Am I more excited with Steve Keim having control over the final 53 than Ken Whisenhunt? Yes.

Am I more excited about Carson Palmer being the starting QB than Kevin Kolb or John Skelton? Yes.

Am I more excited about Bruce Arians being the head coach than Ken Whisenhunt? Not so fast.

I'm not down with Bruce Arians the way many here were. AZCardinals.com has done a great job of fanning the flames of fan enthusiasm around Arians, but, IMO, he's made some shaky staff hires, and he's too eager to step in front of a microphone. Who are the jovial media hogs who are consistently successful coaching NFL teams?

I think there's a real open question about what Bruce Arians has taken away from his experiences with the Steelers and Colts. I'm interested in seeing how those experiences shaped him.

Ken Whisenhunt took from the Steelers the importance of having veteran players in starting roles and the importance of sticking with organizational decisions past the point of no return.

K-9, I once knew a fledgling city councilman, who in his first council meeting cast the only nay vote on a rubber stamp issue that was before the board, stating, "I hate to see anything go without opposition". He went on to become a very successful mayor of Mesa.

You sometimes remind me of him, in that, while we are all Cardinal's fans here, you often, (mostly in fact), post in opposition to nearly every post you make on someone else's thread. I used to find that in bad taste, but have grown to actually admire a lot of your opposition, because it is well founded when you are asked to justify most of it, AND I would find it almost impossible to disagree with as many posts by Cardinal's fans as you manage to do.

I came to admire that politician also, as he was the only Mayor of Mesa who supported building the stadium in Mesa from the very first until its completion in Glendale. His position on the matter greatly harmed his career, but he didn't care, as he saw the potential benefits for Mesa to house the home of the Cardinals. He never compromised his position on the matter.

As I did with that Mayor, I now find myself chuckling from time to time at some of the disagreements that you post here. I'll be thinking, ('how in heck can he disagree with that'), and soon enough there is serious attempt at justification for for it that follows. I sometimes wonder just how happy you would be if you had to support a franchise that did so many things well, like Pittsburgh, or New England.

 

[Buckybird]

You guys crack me up. If the Cards had maintained the status quo most would be on here talking about how last season was an outlier because of all the injuries and that CKW took the Cards to the Superbowl so he deserves one more year at least and if Kolb could stay healthy we could contend for the division title.

And I'd have been down with that over hiring a bunch of old geezers and dismantling the Best Defense we'd had since 1994.

The only thing that saved this off season was Palmer dropping into our lap like manna from heaven.

Of course whatever I write about the Cards the opposite happens so...,,

I wonder what Wiz would've done with Palmer running that team? I knew he was doomed after 58-0, though I still think he's a very good HC.

I like what BA brings as a HC, but which would be better...the current crew or Wiz, Horton & that defense with Carson Palmer pulling the trigger? Hmmm

 

[Buckybird]

I really don't agree with the premise of the original post. After a 5-11 season that featured a 9-game losing streak and the most hopeless offense in the NFL, changes were going to happen.

It's like asking how you would feel if we went into 2011 with Derek Anderson and Billy Davis still in their jobs. Still pretty crappy, but that was never going to happen (excited for this year's Eagles game, though).

Am I more excited with Steve Keim having control over the final 53 than Ken Whisenhunt? Yes.

Am I more excited about Carson Palmer being the starting QB than Kevin Kolb or John Skelton? Yes.

Am I more excited about Bruce Arians being the head coach than Ken Whisenhunt? Not so fast.

I'm not down with Bruce Arians the way many here were. AZCardinals.com has done a great job of fanning the flames of fan enthusiasm around Arians, but, IMO, he's made some shaky staff hires, and he's too eager to step in front of a microphone. Who are the jovial media hogs who are consistently successful coaching NFL teams?

I think there's a real open question about what Bruce Arians has taken away from his experiences with the Steelers and Colts. I'm interested in seeing how those experiences shaped him.

Ken Whisenhunt took from the Steelers the importance of having veteran players in starting roles and the importance of sticking with organizational decisions past the point of no return.

Great post k9

 

[CardLogic]

I'm hoping for 1 win. If that happens, I'll start hoping for another.

I love this post. Simple yet profound.

 

[kerouac9]

K-9, I once knew a fledgling city councilman, who in his first council meeting cast the only nay vote on a rubber stamp issue that was before the board, stating, "I hate to see anything go without opposition". He went on to become a very successful mayor of Mesa.

You sometimes remind me of him, in that, while we are all Cardinal's fans here, you often, (mostly in fact), post in opposition to nearly every post you make on someone else's thread. I used to find that in bad taste, but have grown to actually admire a lot of your opposition, because it is well founded when you are asked to justify most of it, AND I would find it almost impossible to disagree with as many posts by Cardinal's fans as you manage to do.

I came to admire that politician also, as he was the only Mayor of Mesa who supported building the stadium in Mesa from the very first until its completion in Glendale. His position on the matter greatly harmed his career, but he didn't care, as he saw the potential benefits for Mesa to house the home of the Cardinals. He never compromised his position on the matter.

As I did with that Mayor, I now find myself chuckling from time to time at some of the disagreements that you post here. I'll be thinking, ('how in heck can he disagree with that'), and soon enough there is serious attempt at justification for for it that follows. I sometimes wonder just how happy you would be if you had to support a franchise that did so many things well, like Pittsburgh, or New England.

Hmm... Thanks?

Honestly, if there's a post that I agree with, I don't really have the time or inclination to just write "good post" and move on. There are plenty of people here who do that; I'm just not one of them (although I always appreciate it when someone does that to one of my posts, don't get me wrong). If this were Facebook, I'd "like" the original post, and then still say my piece.

I've always been a Cardinals fan for the fact of my birth and because my foundational experiences as a football fan took place in Sun Devil Stadium. I'm also part of a generation of football fans who came to love football based on playing video games, so there are pieces of me that appreciate and enjoy other franchises.

Two of them happen to be the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Tampa Bay Bucs. I grew to appreciate both of them from playing Madden 64 with my college dormmate. I loved running the ball with Jerome Bettis and Kordell Stewart and playing with a white running back in Mike Alstott and white DB in John Lynch, not out of racial animus or preference, but more out of the novelty of two kinds of white athletes that are pretty much extinct in the current NFL.

Much of how I look at the way successful franchises operate is from watching those two organizations steamroll the rest of the NFL for a decade. I have plenty of experience as a Cardinals fan of watching a dysfunctional franchise run itself in circles.

That partly informs why I stood by Ken Whisenhunt through the bitter end, and why I'm generally pretty conservative in estimating the effects of change in a franchise. I've kept a pretty close eye on how successful organizations in the NFL operated over a period of time. I really enjoyed the Titans under Jeff Fisher, too. When Dave McGinnis got fired (maybe it was Dennis Green, but it could have been McGinnis), I really wanted the Cards to look at Mike Heimerdinger (RIP) and Jim Schwartz to replace him.

The long and short of it from my perspective is that changing your head coach most of the time does more harm than good, so you better have a pretty good reason to do so.

The conclusion that I've come to is that Ken Whisenhunt probably refused to fire Russ Grimm and/or Mike Miller and/or give up personnel authority that he'd had in his contract. That was sufficient reason to fire him.

 

[JeffGollin]

How would I feel...

today if we were headed into this season with Whisenhunt,Kolb,Wells and the same coaching staff from 2012 compared to what and where we are now?

Terrible.

 

[Darkside]

You can't lose 58-0 ever and expect to keep your job. It's hard to score 58 in a video game on the lowest settings. Can't even do 58-0 in practice. 58-0 says to your coach, "I hate you."