How would you feel...

[cardpa]

I absolutely had a belly full of Whiz and Co. I had almost zero interest in yet another year of such waste and squandering. I can't imagine another situation in which there would be such distaste for me to remain a Cardinal's fan. It almost ruined me, (after all these years of Cardinal's football). I positively detested the manner in which that regime literally dismanteled a group that made a SB run, and tossed it to the winds for nothing.

We may not be a lot better than last year, but at least we are trying to get better instead of being bent on destruction. That gives me hope for fun football again.

My sentiments exactly, I'm with you Catfish. In 40+ years of following this team, last year may have been the worst.

 

[Cardiac]

I really don't agree with the premise of the original post. After a 5-11 season that featured a 9-game losing streak and the most hopeless offense in the NFL, changes were going to happen.


It's like asking how you would feel if we went into 2011 with Derek Anderson and Billy Davis still in their jobs. Still pretty crappy, but that was never going to happen (excited for this year's Eagles game, though).

Am I more excited with Steve Keim having control over the final 53 than Ken Whisenhunt? Yes.

Am I more excited about Carson Palmer being the starting QB than Kevin Kolb or John Skelton? Yes.

Am I more excited about Bruce Arians being the head coach than Ken Whisenhunt? Not so fast.

I'm not down with Bruce Arians the way many here were. AZCardinals.com has done a great job of fanning the flames of fan enthusiasm around Arians, but, IMO, he's made some shaky staff hires, and he's too eager to step in front of a microphone. Who are the jovial media hogs who are consistently successful coaching NFL teams?

Interesting point about his media ******* but I'm not concerned for two reasons. I think he knows he has to generate enthusiasm in the fan base and I'm sure Michael B wants him to fan the dying embers into some kind of flame.
I don't believe only bland or being nasty to the media are the only way to indicate a winning HC.

I think there's a real open question about what Bruce Arians has taken away from his experiences with the Steelers and Colts. I'm interested in seeing how those experiences shaped him.

Ken Whisenhunt took from the Steelers the importance of having veteran players in starting roles and the importance of sticking with organizational decisions past the point of no return.

Great overall Post.

You guys crack me up. If the Cards had maintained the status quo most would be on here talking about how last season was an outlier because of all the injuries and that CKW took the Cards to the Superbowl so he deserves one more year at least and if Kolb could stay healthy we could contend for the division title.

And I'd have been down with that over hiring a bunch of old geezers and dismantling the Best Defense we'd had since 1994.

The only thing that saved this off season was Palmer dropping into our lap like manna from heaven.

Of course whatever I write about the Cards the opposite happens so...,,

There definitely would have been a group that would have still been optimistic with keeping Whiz as the HC, myself included.

K-9, I once knew a fledgling city councilman, who in his first council meeting cast the only nay vote on a rubber stamp issue that was before the board, stating, "I hate to see anything go without opposition". He went on to become a very successful mayor of Mesa.

You sometimes remind me of him, in that, while we are all Cardinal's fans here, you often, (mostly in fact), post in opposition to nearly every post you make on someone else's thread. I used to find that in bad taste, but have grown to actually admire a lot of your opposition, because it is well founded when you are asked to justify most of it, AND I would find it almost impossible to disagree with as many posts by Cardinal's fans as you manage to do.

I came to admire that politician also, as he was the only Mayor of Mesa who supported building the stadium in Mesa from the very first until its completion in Glendale. His position on the matter greatly harmed his career, but he didn't care, as he saw the potential benefits for Mesa to house the home of the Cardinals. He never compromised his position on the matter.

As I did with that Mayor, I now find myself chuckling from time to time at some of the disagreements that you post here. I'll be thinking, ('how in heck can he disagree with that'), and soon enough there is serious attempt at justification for for it that follows. I sometimes wonder just how happy you would be if you had to support a franchise that did so many things well, like Pittsburgh, or New England.

Good approach and take Fish. I also think K9 is a debater at heart and enjoys the back and forth. I also believe he brings a ton to this forum and I am constantly learning more from his posts and links.

I wonder what Wiz would've done with Palmer running that team? I knew he was doomed after 58-0, though I still think he's a very good HC.

I like what BA brings as a HC, but which would be better...the current crew or Wiz, Horton & that defense with Carson Palmer pulling the trigger? Hmmm

I fully believe that if Whiz was still here with Palmer the Cards would be very competitive. At this point I'm glad the changes were made because Keim is the GM and I think the fan base needed the hope change brings.

Hmm... Thanks?

Honestly, if there's a post that I agree with, I don't really have the time or inclination to just write "good post" and move on. There are plenty of people here who do that; I'm just not one of them (although I always appreciate it when someone does that to one of my posts, don't get me wrong). If this were Facebook, I'd "like" the original post, and then still say my piece.

So your lazy, inconsiderate or a brat.

I've always been a Cardinals fan for the fact of my birth and because my foundational experiences as a football fan took place in Sun Devil Stadium. I'm also part of a generation of football fans who came to love football based on playing video games, so there are pieces of me that appreciate and enjoy other franchises.

Two of them happen to be the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Tampa Bay Bucs. I grew to appreciate both of them from playing Madden 64 with my college dormmate. I loved running the ball with Jerome Bettis and Kordell Stewart and playing with a white running back in Mike Alstott and white DB in John Lynch, not out of racial animus or preference, but more out of the novelty of two kinds of white athletes that are pretty much extinct in the current NFL.

Much of how I look at the way successful franchises operate is from watching those two organizations steamroll the rest of the NFL for a decade. I have plenty of experience as a Cardinals fan of watching a dysfunctional franchise run itself in circles.

That partly informs why I stood by Ken Whisenhunt through the bitter end, and why I'm generally pretty conservative in estimating the effects of change in a franchise. I've kept a pretty close eye on how successful organizations in the NFL operated over a period of time. I really enjoyed the Titans under Jeff Fisher, too. When Dave McGinnis got fired (maybe it was Dennis Green, but it could have been McGinnis), I really wanted the Cards to look at Mike Heimerdinger (RIP) and Jim Schwartz to replace him.

The long and short of it from my perspective is that changing your head coach most of the time does more harm than good, so you better have a pretty good reason to do so.

The conclusion that I've come to is that Ken Whisenhunt probably refused to fire Russ Grimm and/or Mike Miller and/or give up personnel authority that he'd had in his contract. That was sufficient reason to fire him.

Thanks for the insight. This took me about 30 seconds to post.

You can't lose 58-0 ever and expect to keep your job. It's hard to score 58 in a video game on the lowest settings. Can't even do 58-0 in practice. 58-0 says to your coach, "I hate you."

I disagree because the Cards did get their last win of the season after this loss and played a couple of competitive games as well, IIRC.

I just think it was one of those games that can happen, especially if you have zero offense due to your crappy QB play.

 

[cardpa]

I wonder what Wiz would've done with Palmer running that team? I knew he was doomed after 58-0, though I still think he's a very good HC.

I like what BA brings as a HC, but which would be better...the current crew or Wiz, Horton & that defense with Carson Palmer pulling the trigger? Hmmm

I believe that if the old regime had stayed there was a high probability that they never would have pursued Palmer. At the pace they would have done things I don't think the deal would have ever been made and if it was it would have cost the team a lot more than a 6th round draft pick.

I also wonder if Palmer would have come to AZ if Whiz was still the HC? I believe there was a good chance he may have balked at coming to the Cardinals if Whiz was still here.

 

[kerouac9]

I believe that if the old regime had stayed there was a high probability that they never would have pursued Palmer. At the pace they would have done things I don't think the deal would have ever been made and if it was it would have cost the team a lot more than a 6th round draft pick.

I also wonder if Palmer would have come to AZ if Whiz was still the HC? I believe there was a good chance he may have balked at coming to the Cardinals if Whiz was still here.

I've heard it on pretty good authority that there was no chance that Carson Palmer would've played for Ken Whisenhunt based on what he'd heard from Matt Leinart and Deuce Lutui.

 

[Buckybird]

I've heard it on pretty good authority that there was no chance that Carson Palmer would've played for Ken Whisenhunt based on what he'd heard from Matt Leinart and Deuce Lutui.

Quit talking to Thesmel

 

[kerouac9]

Quit talking to Thesmel

No, it was someone in Trojan Nation who was connected to the booster community.

 

[petelondon]

Would feel a lot better if they could have found a way to keep Horton but that is probably just naive thinking on my part that that could have happened.

While I am optimistic on O simply by the fact we actually have a QB for the first time in ages, it is tempered by Bowles as DC.

And the fact the NFC West has turned into a very very hard division now.

8-8 will be a solid season for me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Would feel a lot better if they could have found a way to keep Horton but that is probably just naive thinking on my part that that could have happened.

While I am optimistic on O simply by the fact we actually have a QB for the first time in ages, it is tempered by Bowles as DC.

And the fact the NFC West has turned into a very very hard division now.

8-8 will be a solid season for me.

While I am hoping for even better, an 8 win season would be fantastic as far as I'm concerned.

Steve