Hypothetical For The Tank

[Stout]

You say this as if the only options are tanking or superbowl.

Monti knows this is a multi year project.

Who said Super Bowl? And who said it isn't a multi-year project? All save one poster have conceded this season was going to be a wash. Tanking refers to this season and doesn't take into consideration long-term planning.

Simple question: What has he done to make this a better football team this year?

 

[THESMEL]

With fans like this who needs opponents.
I would say the draft made cards a better team.
I think our oline is good enough to trade jones without tanking. it is a good oline.
I think colts arm was not good enough after surgery and both qbs are better right now, then we had last year.
am in the dark about Dobbs, like everyone, but are we? He was the best available with our coaches and flight plan.
I like Tunes progression.
I think Conner is a beast,
i Think it will take 4 games to gel, then will see what we have here.
monti did well, fan him.
im excited to see how the NFCW shakes out - that is all our goal is, should be. And it is winnable.

 

[BritCard]

Who said Super Bowl? And who said it isn't a multi-year project? All save one poster have conceded this season was going to be a wash. Tanking refers to this season and doesn't take into consideration long-term planning.

Simple question: What has he done to make this a better football team this year?

Drafted players.

We had this conversation already. Spending big FA money to make the team a 5 instead of a 4 is pointless. We establish that the players you think exist that are "good, young and cheap" who sign multi year deals don't exist.

He's accepting this year is a turnaround year and planning accordingly. Especially with a QB1 out.

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

3 inches taller could go a long way….that said as others have pointed out, we already made our bed with Murray given his contract. best thing forward is to probably stack this team with talent again and hope Murray comes back fresh both physically and mentally to shine.

 

[BritCard]

3 inches taller could go a long way….that said as others have pointed out, we already made our bed with Murray given his contract. best thing forward is to probably stack this team with talent again and hope Murray comes back fresh both physically and mentally to shine.

I'd take Kyler + MHJ + Dallas Turner + 1 future 1sts over Williams + Dallas Turner + $59m dead cap all day.

 

[TheCardFan]

I don't think the Cards are tanking.

You are in denial.

The difference between prime Kyler and prime Williams isn't that much, if anything at all.

Based on what?
Kyler regressed big time and then tore his ACL.
Kyler has 1 top 10 finish in 4 years. 1 "prime" year.
Caleb Williams hasn't played a down in the NFL and you are projecting his "prime"? Did you do the same for Josh Allen and Mahomes (while they were in college)?

 

[TheCardFan]

I'd take Kyler + MHJ + Dallas Turner + 1 future 1sts over Williams + Dallas Turner + $59m dead cap all day.

Kyler will be $51m cap hit in 2024 anyway (on the roster).

No team has ever built a championship team with a top 5 paid QB and a roster like ours.

Give me Williams, MHJ, and another #1 pick (plus) for Kyler.

 

[TheCardFan]

Here are my biggest issues/concerns with Kyler:

1) He isn't a dog. Compare him to the great QB's - they found a way to make it happen. Dude doesn't show up in the biggest games (see vs Alabama, see Rams playoff game, etc).

2) He will never be the leader that Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes are...never.

3) He regressed significantly in 2022. Not a little bit - a LOT!

4) He tore his ACL and his strengths are his ability to run. Not like Josh Allen (trucking people) but very shifty in the pocket and on the run...will he be able to get back to 100% in that way? Even if he does - why did he regress as a passer do badly in 2022?

4) See #1

5) No NFL team has every built a championship team with a top 5 paid QB and a roster void of talent like us. That isn't 100% on Kyler but his contract and his play combined with the uncertainty that he will ever be "prime" is too much of a gamble.

Blow it up and start over.

 

[kerouac9]

It should speak volumes that it’s very difficult to parse the results between “not prioritizing winning” (which is what I think tank deniers mean by “resetting the roster” or whatever) and “actively trying to lose as many games as possible” (which is my functional definition of “tanking”).

For me, I want to watch entertaining football and I’m upset to be actively denied that opportunity.

 

[TheCardFan]

It should speak volumes that it’s very difficult to parse the results between “not prioritizing winning” (which is what I think tank deniers mean by “resetting the roster” or whatever) and “actively trying to lose as many games as possible” (which is my functional definition of “tanking”).

For me, I want to watch entertaining football and I’m upset to be actively denied that opportunity.

It's pretty clear in my mind.

The FO (Monti) is tanking...the roster. Making it very difficult to win.

I don't think JG is tanking. I don't think you can have that mindset as a coach or risk the respect of the players/team.

FWIW - Monti is stripping the roster down to rebuild it his way.
2024 (if not sooner) - we will not have Budda, Kyler, Conner, Brown, and Ertz on the roster.

Monti maneuvered in the draft to pick up another potentially high #1 pick next year to go along with our own #1, a 2nd and two 3rds.
Those should all be starters in 2024 (7 players) plus whatever we get for Kyler (#1 pick plus...something else).
That could be 8 starters in 2024 but most likely, we will see some maneuvering.

If this happens, we will be competitive in 2024 and could take a huge leap in 2025 with another year of experience from the rookies, another draft, and a real free agency period.

The key to success short term - pick the right players.
Long term - sign those players to 2nd contracts.

 

[football karma]

It should speak volumes that it’s very difficult to parse the results between “not prioritizing winning” (which is what I think tank deniers mean by “resetting the roster” or whatever) and “actively trying to lose as many games as possible” (which is my functional definition of “tanking”).

this is the crux of all the disagreement --

 

[TheCardFan]

This is where the Cardinals (and Texans) will need to be to get top draft pick in 2023:

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[Krangodnzr]

It should speak volumes that it’s very difficult to parse the results between “not prioritizing winning” (which is what I think tank deniers mean by “resetting the roster” or whatever) and “actively trying to lose as many games as possible” (which is my functional definition of “tanking”).

For me, I want to watch entertaining football and I’m upset to be actively denied that opportunity.

I get your argument, but the counter argument is that the team needs a major reset, even down to the fact that the Cardinals are spending big money on the safety position.

 

[kerouac9]

I get your argument, but the counter argument is that the team needs a major reset, even down to the fact that the Cardinals are spending big money on the safety position.

This shouldn’t ever be true when you have a franchise QB on your roster. The premise is incorrect.

 

[TheCardFan]

This shouldn’t ever be true when you have a franchise QB on your roster. The premise is incorrect.

Do we?

 

[TheCardFan]

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[BritCard]

It's pretty clear in my mind.

The FO (Monti) is tanking...the roster. Making it very difficult to win.

I don't think JG is tanking. I don't think you can have that mindset as a coach or risk the respect of the players/team.

FWIW - Monti is stripping the roster down to rebuild it his way.
2024 (if not sooner) - we will not have Budda, Kyler, Conner, Brown, and Ertz on the roster.

Monti maneuvered in the draft to pick up another potentially high #1 pick next year to go along with our own #1, a 2nd and two 3rds.
Those should all be starters in 2024 (7 players) plus whatever we get for Kyler (#1 pick plus...something else).
That could be 8 starters in 2024 but most likely, we will see some maneuvering.

If this happens, we will be competitive in 2024 and could take a huge leap in 2025 with another year of experience from the rookies, another draft, and a real free agency period.

The key to success short term - pick the right players.
Long term - sign those players to 2nd contracts.

If you are tanking you don't hire the hand picked coach you wanted all along and be the last one to hire. You hire some bum or retread that has no chance.

And you don't give them 5 year deals that you have to pay out. After just paying out long term deals on your coach and GM.

They ain't tanking. When teams tank they always replace their HC afterwards because it's hard to reset the culture if you don't.

 

[daves]

Give me Williams, MHJ, and another #1 pick (plus) for Kyler.

I am really baffled by those who expect Murray to play poorly enough to be traded despite the massive cap hit, yet well enough that another team would give up a first round pick for him with his massive salary.

 

[daves]

This shouldn’t ever be true when you have a franchise QB on your roster. The premise is incorrect.

Is that still true with a "franchise QB" who may miss half the season or more, and who was, to put it kindly, in the bottom half of league QBs last season?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am really baffled by those who expect Murray to play poorly enough to be traded despite the massive cap hit, yet well enough that another team would give up a first round pick for him with his massive salary.

YeaH… the disconnect is odd.

 

[Phrazbit]

YeaH… the disconnect is odd.

If Kyler plays and plays poorly, I think they'll cut him.

If Kyler plays and plays well, then I think he'd have real trade value and I don't think this front office feels at all beholden to keep anyone they didn't take and building from the tear down they've created while chained down with a 50 mil QB is going to be difficult.

If he doesn't play at all then they definitely are looking to move on.

If not for his contract, I think Kyler would already be gone.

Moral of the story, I think the odds of Kyler being on this roster in 2025 are very small. He'd have to play lights out.

 

[PACardsFan]

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And it’s already been determined that Florio is an IDIOT.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

If Kyler plays and plays poorly, I think they'll cut him.

If Kyler plays and plays well, then I think he'd have real trade value and I don't think this front office feels at all beholden to keep anyone they didn't take and building from the tear down they've created while chained down with a 50 mil QB is going to be difficult.

If he doesn't play at all then they definitely are looking to move on.

If not for his contract, I think Kyler would already be gone.

Moral of the story, I think the odds of Kyler being on this roster in 2025 are very small. He'd have to play lights out.

If they are deadset on moving Murray (not my wish), then what happens if he comes back week 5/6 and puts together 3 or 4 good games. Do you move him this year by the week 10 trade deadline? You're gonna take an insane cap hit anyway...would any of it accelerate to this year, instead of all being next year?

 

[Phrazbit]

If they are deadset on moving Murray (not my wish), then what happens if he comes back week 5/6 and puts together 3 or 4 good games. Do you move him this year by the week 10 trade deadline? You're gonna take an insane cap hit anyway...would any of it accelerate to this year, instead of all being next year?

I don't think they can take the hit this season, not enough cap space.

I don't think they're deadset on moving him, but I think he's going to have to blow them away.

 

[kerouac9]

Is that still true with a "franchise QB" who may miss half the season or more, and who was, to put it kindly, in the bottom half of league QBs last season?

Yeah. You continue to build and maybe you go 8-9 or 6-11 and continue moving forward.

Kyler’s shown that his ceiling is NFL MVP. I think you use your system, coaching, and supporting cast to ensure his floor is, like, Jared Goff.

If Kyler plays and plays poorly, I think they'll cut him.

If Kyler plays and plays well, then I think he'd have real trade value and I don't think this front office feels at all beholden to keep anyone they didn't take and building from the tear down they've created while chained down with a 50 mil QB is going to be difficult.

If he doesn't play at all then they definitely are looking to move on.

If not for his contract, I think Kyler would already be gone.

Moral of the story, I think the odds of Kyler being on this roster in 2025 are very small. He'd have to play lights out.

They can’t cut him. His 2024 salary is already guaranteed. Michael will eat dead money, but it’s impossible to imagine home getting the green light from the family to light $50 million on fire.