Hypothetical For The Tank

[TheCardFan]

I am really baffled by those who expect Murray to play poorly enough to be traded despite the massive cap hit, yet well enough that another team would give up a first round pick for him with his massive salary.

YeaH… the disconnect is odd.

Take a look at what starting NFL QB's get traded for and get back to me.

Kyler is worth a #1 pick (at least) even if he doesn't play the rest of this year.

There are a few teams out there that need a QB as a final piece to try and make a run.

 

[TheCardFan]

Yeah. You continue to build and maybe you go 8-9 or 6-11 and continue moving forward.

100%

 

[GatorAZ]

I am really baffled by those who expect Murray to play poorly enough to be traded despite the massive cap hit, yet well enough that another team would give up a first round pick for him with his massive salary.

What would the receiving team be on the hook for after trading for him pre-6/1 2024?

 

[GatorAZ]

Yeah. You continue to build and maybe you go 8-9 or 6-11 and continue moving forward.

Kyler’s shown that his ceiling is NFL MVP. I think you use your system, coaching, and supporting cast to ensure his floor is, like, Jared Goff.



They can’t cut him. His 2024 salary is already guaranteed. Michael will eat dead money, but it’s impossible to imagine home getting the green light from the family to light $50 million on fire.

It’s more like $80m to cut him after the season. He’ll either stay or be traded. I believe Monti has convinced Bidwill to keep an open mind about it but they’re probably leaning to restart the rookie scale with one of the QB’s coming out.

 

[kerouac9]

It’s more like $80m to cut him after the season. He’ll either stay or be traded. I believe Monti has convinced Bidwill to keep an open mind about it but they’re probably leaning to restart the rookie scale with one of the QB’s coming out.

Yeah it’s $80M against the cap if you cut him but you have to pay him another $50M+.

I agree that they’re keeping Michael warm on trading him if the timeline doesn’t align, but they can’t cut him.

 

[THESMEL]

I ain’t tanking, I’m a get down and waller in the mud naked Arizona Cardinal football club fan. Some seems like cowboy fans , or LA - little adversity and the dissipate into thin air until it makes them look good again.
ain’t no vanity worth worrying about here, we already have red on our face, embrace fortitude - that mixture of toughness and constitution.
what exactly do you expect that we have not survived before? Your tough enough, Cardinal up and take it like a Fan! I think we run and play with a 3 dimensional offense, helps the defense, helps the special teams. Give ourselves a chance.

we can win the NFCW - talent gap is never huge in the NFL - I see better coaching and player fundamentals here then I’ve seen in years. The monkey is not on Kylers back, lil fellow is bouncing across the stands, peeing on fans.

here in the philipines coach quit FIBA team because of fans, said team couldn’t play for them , social media bashing, destruction!

do you think coach has bad character or is being honest?

Chot Reyes on social media bashing: Too heavy, masyado nang masakit!

The bashing and the disrespect largely on social media was just too much to handle for Chot Reyes that he – with consultation from his family – decided to step down as head coach of Gilas Pilipinas.

www.manilatimes.net

 

[Krangodnzr]

I am really baffled by those who expect Murray to play poorly enough to be traded despite the massive cap hit, yet well enough that another team would give up a first round pick for him with his massive salary.

His salary once traded would be very cap friendly since all of the guaranteed money accelerates against the cap. There aren't 32 good QBs in the NFL and it only takes one QB needy team to talk themselves into the idea that Murray was mishandled with the Cardinals and he is worthy of being traded for.

 

[kerouac9]

His salary once traded would be very cap friendly since all of the guaranteed money accelerates against the cap. There aren't 32 good QBs in the NFL and it only takes one QB needy team to talk themselves into the idea that Murray was mishandled with the Cardinals and he is worthy of being traded for.

The rolling guarantees are a problem in the contract, but in general a team would only have to eat a little if they decided to move on.

 

[TheCardFan]

If you are tanking you don't hire the hand picked coach you wanted all along and be the last one to hire. You hire some bum or retread that has no chance.

Disagree.

What is your defintion of tanking?

So, you think that a team with potentially 2 of the top draft picks in 2024 is trying to win this year? With this roster?
- That would be such a Cardinal thing to do

 

[TheCardFan]

Let's all pretend for a moment that Kyler comes back and plays his best football.

His best football was 2021.
In that year, he started out on fire. Amazing!
But - he couldn't win a game when it mattered most.
How many potential close out (division) games did we lose?

Then we got blown out by the Rams in the playoffs.
Kyler was shell shocked (just like the Alabama game).

Don't forget - he threatened to hold out, got his money, and then regressed big time!
Now he is recovering from an ACL.

Kyler needs a fresh start somewhere else and might the missing piece for some other team.
The odds are against him being an elite QB in Arizona (what we are paying him to be).

 

[TheCardFan]

Before 2022 season (after his best year in 2021):

ESPN poll of execs, coaches, scouts ranks Murray outside top-10 QBs

Murray enters the list in the "honorable mention" category along with Baltimore Ravens QB Lamar Jackson and Las Vegas Raiders QB Derek Carr.

arizonasports.com

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[Stout]

Drafted players.

We had this conversation already. Spending big FA money to make the team a 5 instead of a 4 is pointless. We establish that the players you think exist that are "good, young and cheap" who sign multi year deals don't exist.

He's accepting this year is a turnaround year and planning accordingly. Especially with a QB1 out.

We lost more players than we drafted. At best, the draft gave us a hold, although we're probably still in a net loss talent wise. I have no problem tanking, and no problem with this being a turnaround year. Makes sense. Folks arguing that we aren't tanking, however, are ludicrous.

 

[Stout]

Yeah. You continue to build and maybe you go 8-9 or 6-11 and continue moving forward.

Kyler’s shown that his ceiling is NFL MVP. I think you use your system, coaching, and supporting cast to ensure his floor is, like, Jared Goff.



They can’t cut him. His 2024 salary is already guaranteed. Michael will eat dead money, but it’s impossible to imagine home getting the green light from the family to light $50 million on fire.

lol No he hasn't. He's shown he can play as well as an NFL MVP for a stretch of the season. He's shown he call fall apart like a 10-cent watch after that.

 

[BritCard]

Disagree.

What is your defintion of tanking?

So, you think that a team with potentially 2 of the top draft picks in 2024 is trying to win this year? With this roster?
- That would be such a Cardinal thing to do

Tanking is purposefully losing by building a bad roster and bad staff with the aim of picking #1 or close to it.

And we ain't doing that.

 

[Krangodnzr]

lol No he hasn't. He's shown he can play as well as an NFL MVP for a stretch of the season. He's shown he call fall apart like a 10-cent watch after that.

See? You say this but then can't get behind the concept that maybe, just maybe, you prepare to move on with a viable path to getting a Murray replacement next season. And the most sure route to do this is by cutting costs, not taking on more money.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm so tired of the Caleb Williams / Kyler talk on Twitter already and football only just started.

My view,

1, I don't think the Cards are tanking. I think Keim left the team in a bad place with some bad contracts, dead money and general low level of talent and that the FO are trying to turn that around in a sensible way. This year is a transition year, I don't think they intend to tank.

2, I believe the FO and coaching staff when they say they are all in on Kyler, and Kyler believes it too. You can see he is enthused and invigorated by this staff and he seems like a changed man.

3, Kyler is a former #1 pick who has played well in the league. He's no bust. What's the need to move on from him? He's not Mitch Trubisky or Blake Bortles. And the Org thought enough of him to give him a $46m per year deal. I don't see why that would change in a year.

4, The difference between prime Kyler and prime Williams isn't that much, if anything at all. The teams focus should be on enabling prime Kyler.

5, Nobody eats $59m in dead money. They just don't. Especially Bidwill. And you don't turn an Org around with a new QB by eating $59m in dead cap. It would be setting Caleb Williams up to fail anyway with a dire roster.

6, I don't think the Cards or Texans finish with the #1 pick. The odds are just against it. What teams look like pre season is rarely how they look on the field, especially when you factor in injuries. If a rookie QB struggles, or a middling team lose their starting QB then things rapidly change.

7, If we did finish with #1 there is far more value to the Cards in trading it than drafting Williams. As I said in #4, the difference between prime Kyler and prime Williams is minimal if any. Keeping Kyler and getting multiple 1st round picks offers far more value than Caleb Williams and $59m in dead cap.

8, To achieve the tank they would have to sit Kyler all year. I just don't see how you do that if Kyler is healthy. If he's healthy by Game 5 and wants to play you can't not play him. If you don't play him you are teleraphing the tank, you lose the locker room and Gannon is done. You run the risk of alienating your massively paid QB and missing out on Williams. And you couldn't keep a healthy Kyler around. You would have to trade him before the trade deadline for a bag of donuts.

There are just far too many things against it in my opinion.

The possible way I see it happening is if Kyler comes back, the team and coaches are truly behind him, but he really sucks. Which is possible, but very unlikely. And even then I think it's a tough sell with his deal and you can tell yourself he's still not mentally over the injury and worth another year. And you have the picks from trading your high draft pick to use on a QB next year if needed.

I watched 4 videos on youtube about us tanking yesterday. 2 of them had the same obvious question, whether you think they're tanking or not what else would you have them do? What better option is there, the roster had to be overhauled.

I thought it was an interesting angle we weren't close enough where a few moves would get it back on track so with Kyler hurt the obvious response is total gut of the roster.

They all agree the coaches and players don't want to lose, it's simply management making moves to create room for the future and the picks to fill them.

 

[CardNots]

lol No he hasn't. He's shown he can play as well as an NFL MVP for a stretch of the season. He's shown he call fall apart like a 10-cent watch after that.

He has not shown ability to play from the pocket. With an improved OL, maybe but I still have to see accurate in stride passes over the middle.

 

[kerouac9]

Tanking is purposefully losing by building a bad roster and bad staff with the aim of picking #1 or close to it.

And we ain't doing that.

LOL. Just slipped the “with a bad staff in there.” Okay.

I watched 4 videos on youtube about us tanking yesterday. 2 of them had the same obvious question, whether you think they're tanking or not what else would you have them do? What better option is there, the roster had to be overhauled.

I thought it was an interesting angle we weren't close enough where a few moves would get it back on track so with Kyler hurt the obvious response is total gut of the roster.

They all agree the coaches and players don't want to lose, it's simply management making moves to create room for the future and the picks to fill them.

We’ll, if they say it on YouTube I guess it’s unimpeachable.

 

[TheCardFan]

Tanking is purposefully losing by building a bad roster and bad staff with the aim of picking #1 or close to it.

And we ain't doing that.

2/3

You are in denial my friend.

 

[Russ Smith]

LOL. Just slipped the “with a bad staff in there.” Okay.


We’ll, if they say it on YouTube I guess it’s unimpeachable.

These were the usual sites, just on youtube.

I personally think the plan is to tank.

 

[Stout]

See? You say this but then can't get behind the concept that maybe, just maybe, you prepare to move on with a viable path to getting a Murray replacement next season. And the most sure route to do this is by cutting costs, not taking on more money.

Are you thick? How many times do I have to agree that this would make good sense before you stop arguing about it?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Are you thick? How many times do I have to agree that this would make good sense before you stop arguing about it?

No I'm not "thick". I was beginning to think you were because you didn't seem to grasp what I was talking about.

MO took over a crap situation, carefully curated by Keim. It's going to take a few years to fix things around here.

 

[oaken1]

Take a look at what starting NFL QB's get traded for and get back to me.

Kyler is worth a #1 pick (at least) even if he doesn't play the rest of this year.

There are a few teams out there that need a QB as a final piece to try and make a run.

I would bet a months pay Kyler is worth 2 #1's right now.


The nfl is a copycat league. They just drafted 5'10" Bryce Young first over all. If Kyler was considered a wasted pick Young slides to the 2nd round. Clearly the league feels that kliff/Cardinals are the reason Murray hasn't met his potential.

 

[speedy]

I’m not a fan of kyler, but cutting bait with him would be stupid at this point. I say you have to roll with him in 24.

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

I am really baffled by those who expect Murray to play poorly enough to be traded despite the massive cap hit, yet well enough that another team would give up a first round pick for him with his massive salary.

Tend to agree- I don’t see a trade going down unless he starts to become a diva again. Either he plays well and we won’t trade him then or he plays a rerun of 2022 where we won’t be able to find someone to take his salary + give us draft capital (look at Hopkins)

There are a ton of variables here, I don’t think we can write kyler off just yet. Monti is obviously not married to any player here as he has shown, which I think is great - I really hope kyler starts to feel the heat a bit to light a fire under his ass.