I am not saying Colt is great (he is not) but..

[BritCard]

No Stout, I'm talking about like, innate physical/QB talent. Accuracy, arm strength, mobility, etc.

Kyler has that in spades; and is the most physically gifted player every time he steps between the lines. You can type until you're blue in the face, but you'll never convince me that guys like L. Jackson or Burrow have more innate physical talent than K-1. Mahomes? I guess maybe... he's less mobile but probably has a better arm. Might be a push.

And I wouldn't take Allen over him because Allen takes too much punishment when he runs. It's awesome to see Josh bulldozing down the field, but those shots are going to start adding up. What happens to Buffalo if he busts up his throwing shoulder on one those scrambles? Allen is a more powerful runner, but Murray is 100 times more elusive that Josh ever thought about being, and that's going to be the difference in their careers (IMO).

Is Murray playing below his talent level? Yes! He's in a bad slump, and it's possible his head is not quite right at the moment. His leadership skills are in question. There's tons of negative energy around him right now, some of which is his own fault. Everything about his game is trending in the wrong direction. It's both shocking and disappointing.

And I guess it's possible he'll never get back to an MVP level (I honestly doubt it though), and if that happens I think that would be the saddest thing in the world. If Murray and/or the Cardinals collaborate to waste the massive amount of talent he has.

But just because talent is being wasted doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Okay, flame away. Tell us how K-1 can't read defenses (even though he did so at an all-pro level in 2020 and 2021) or has bad pocket presence and blah blah blah.

I always tell my kids that you get out what you put in. If you aren't doing well in a certain class or at a certain sport it's because you're not putting the work in to be where you want to be.

And this is what is annoying me so much about Kyler because he does have all the physical tools. The only way he can be this low below his standards is that he isn't putting the work it.

I really hope he turns it around. I thought he had last year. He can do it, it's not even difficult, he's just got to put the work in.

 

[Stout]

No Stout, I'm talking about like, innate physical/QB talent. Accuracy, arm strength, mobility, etc.

Kyler has that in spades; and is the most physically gifted player every time he steps between the lines. You can type until you're blue in the face, but you'll never convince me that guys like L. Jackson or Burrow have more innate physical talent than K-1. Mahomes? I guess maybe... he's less mobile but probably has a better arm. Might be a push.

And I wouldn't take Allen over him because Allen takes too much punishment when he runs. It's awesome to see Josh bulldozing down the field, but those shots are going to start adding up. What happens to Buffalo if he busts up his throwing shoulder on one those scrambles? Allen is a more powerful runner, but Murray is 100 times more elusive that Josh ever thought about being, and that's going to be the difference in their careers (IMO).

Is Murray playing below his talent level? Yes! He's in a bad slump, and it's possible his head is not quite right at the moment. His leadership skills are in question. There's tons of negative energy around him right now, some of which is his own fault. Everything about his game is trending in the wrong direction. It's both shocking and disappointing.

And I guess it's possible he'll never get back to an MVP level (I honestly doubt it though), and if that happens I think that would be the saddest thing in the world. If Murray and/or the Cardinals collaborate to waste the massive amount of talent he has.

But just because talent is being wasted doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Okay, flame away. Tell us how K-1 can't read defenses (even though he did so at an all-pro level in 2020 and 2021) or has bad pocket presence and blah blah blah.

Again, I disagree. Allen and Mahomie are more talented than he is, as is Lamar, although there can be an argument made with Lamar. Kyler has physical tools, for certain, but they are limited. He's fast, but has a short stride, allowing him to be caught too easy at times. He has a cannon arm, but poor mechanics, which hinder him. Size also plays against him in numerous ways. He couldn't play like Allen if his life depended on it, which limits him significantly even though he can scramble well.

I'm not saying he doesn't have good physical tools--he does--it's just that his size limits him and he limits himself as well.

 

[TRW]

Again, I disagree. Allen and Mahomie are more talented than he is, as is Lamar, although there can be an argument made with Lamar. Kyler has physical tools, for certain, but they are limited. He's fast, but has a short stride, allowing him to be caught too easy at times. He has a cannon arm, but poor mechanics, which hinder him. Size also plays against him in numerous ways. He couldn't play like Allen if his life depended on it, which limits him significantly even though he can scramble well.

I'm not saying he doesn't have good physical tools--he does--it's just that his size limits him and he limits himself as well.

His size will always be his Achille's heel. It was always my biggest reservation about him, UNTIL he showed his mammoth lack of leadership, accountability and dedication to his craft. He CAN become a better student of the game but in year 4 I'm not sure he WILL.

 

[kerouac9]

It’s hilarious to me that people are STILL saying that Kyler is better than Lamar Jackson.

 

[BritCard]

It’s hilarious to me that people are STILL saying that Kyler is better than Lamar Jackson.

He might not even be Justin Fields

 

[kerouac9]

He might not even be Justin Fields

Or Jalen Hurts.

 

[TRW]

Or Tua.

He might not even be Justin Fields

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He might not even be Justin Fields

Meh fields is a running back playing QB at this point. He’s not even close to the passer lamar is. His current style of play is unsustainable at the nfl level.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Or Jalen Hurts.

Hurts is proving to be better than almost anyone thought he’d be. He’s a legit good QB. Being not as good as him isn’t a big deal as many QBs aren’t as good as him. The only reason people still bring him up is draft position and his unexpected ascension.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Again, I disagree. Allen and Mahomie are more talented than he is, as is Lamar, although there can be an argument made with Lamar. Kyler has physical tools, for certain, but they are limited. He's fast, but has a short stride, allowing him to be caught too easy at times. He has a cannon arm, but poor mechanics, which hinder him. Size also plays against him in numerous ways. He couldn't play like Allen if his life depended on it, which limits him significantly even though he can scramble well.

I'm not saying he doesn't have good physical tools--he does--it's just that his size limits him and he limits himself as well.

Some interesting points… i have to admit Murray has been less durable than I thought he would be.

Sigh…But I guess the captain has to go down with the “generational talent” ship if you know what I mean Stout. lol. Pretty lonely on this bandwagon at the moment.

I just really hope Murray doesn’t end up on a 30 for 30 episode.

here’s to a victory somehow someway on Monday night! Hope you aren’t working too much this weekend!

 

[Jetstream Green]

Again, I disagree. Allen and Mahomie are more talented than he is, as is Lamar, although there can be an argument made with Lamar. Kyler has physical tools, for certain, but they are limited. He's fast, but has a short stride, allowing him to be caught too easy at times. He has a cannon arm, but poor mechanics, which hinder him. Size also plays against him in numerous ways. He couldn't play like Allen if his life depended on it, which limits him significantly even though he can scramble well.

I'm not saying he doesn't have good physical tools--he does--it's just that his size limits him and he limits himself as well.

You also forgot that Kyler Murray is extremely accurate. His problem is his mental aspect at the moment, not physical attributes which more than compensate for his height

 

[Stout]

You also forgot that Kyler Murray is extremely accurate. His problem is his mental aspect at the moment, not physical attributes which more than compensate for his height

Not more than, no. Not even sufficiently at the moment. Maybe if he ever gets his head right. And he may be accurate but at what yards per?

 

[Jetstream Green]

Not more than, no. Not even sufficiently at the moment. Maybe if he ever gets his head right. And he may be accurate but at what yards per?

Tell you what, that pass he threw to Green for the conversion against the Raiders is about as an accurate a testament to accuracy as one can find. I am talking about his physical ability to throw an accurate pass and that is elite, but you are right he cannot be accurate if he does not know where he wants to throw that ball or should throw

 

[kerouac9]

You also forgot that Kyler Murray is extremely accurate. His problem is his mental aspect at the moment, not physical attributes which more than compensate for his height

How do you say this at the very moment when he’s on his second week out for injury. Seems like his size is limiting him.

 

[Jetstream Green]

How do you say this at the very moment when he’s on his second week out for injury. Seems like his size is limiting him.

Look Devil's advocate, I was talking about when he is actually playing on the field, and you know that

 

[urs]

Not more than, no. Not even sufficiently at the moment. Maybe if he ever gets his head right. And he may be accurate but at what yards per?

Last year he was amongst the leaders in the NFL, 4th in YPA and 2nd in Completion %.

This year is the outlier of his 4 years when it comes to yards per attempt

 

[nashman]

How do you say this at the very moment when he’s on his second week out for injury. Seems like his size is limiting him.

Not out because of his size any player can be out with a Hamstring injury come on…

 

[Brian in Mesa]

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[kerouac9]

Not out because of his size any player can be out with a Hamstring injury come on…

Yes. Cmon. He needs to use his athleticism because he’s too small to operate effectively as a pocket passer. A hamstring injury renders him impotent while his teammates fight to keep their season relevant for another week.

If he were 6’2” he probably could operate from the pocket yeah?

 

[slanidrac16]

McCoy will have a very tough time. The 49ers will play to take away the quick passes which means this line will have to open running lanes or hold up to give McCoy time to throw deeper passes.
This o-line won’t be able to do either.
So next weeks tirade will be the Murray supporters claiming McCoy is merely a back up and we might have won the game if Murray started.

 

[Stout]

McCoy will have a very tough time. The 49ers will play to take away the quick passes which means this line will have to open running lanes or hold up to give McCoy time to throw deeper passes.
This o-line won’t be able to do either.
So next weeks tirade will be the Murray supporters claiming McCoy is merely a back up and we might have won the game if Murray started.

Yup. The Murray excuses will flow.

 

[nashman]

Yup. The Murray excuses will flow.

What excuses? All you Murray haters will just see McCoy is not some magical great QB we’ve been not playing in favor of Kyler. According to most of you McCoy give us the best chance to win so freaking back it up don’t start making excuses now that he won’t look good against a real team!

 

[Stout]

What excuses? All you Murray haters will just see McCoy is not some magical great QB we’ve been not playing in favor of Kyler. According to most of you McCoy give us the best chance to win so freaking back it up don’t start making excuses now that he won’t look good against a real team!

lol Move the goal posts much? McCoy is a backup that has simply shown that the offense can run smoothly if the QB play is on point. He's not the long-term answer at QB, and he's certainly not some "magical great QB" that you've made up on the spot, as no one has said this. Kyler has held the offense back with poor play. That's all.

Why did I know you'd start attacking on this thread. Defensive much?

 

[slanidrac16]

What excuses? All you Murray haters will just see McCoy is not some magical great QB we’ve been not playing in favor of Kyler. According to most of you McCoy give us the best chance to win so freaking back it up don’t start making excuses now that he won’t look good against a real team!

I believe the Cards are going to lose this game even if we had JC himself as our QB.
Just like the Murray backers claimed “ Meh, it was the Rams” you will claim McCoy isn’t as good as “ we” thought.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How do you say this at the very moment when he’s on his second week out for injury. Seems like his size is limiting him.

You’re blaming a hamstring on his . . . checks notes . . . height? Oooookaaay . . .