I have chosen to be all in on Rosen

[oaken1]

I am all in for Rosen too!! He was #4 on my list for whatever reasons, but now he is 100% my guy!!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I do question the positioning on "comp (quicker)." I think we want what we feel is fair compensation - the kind that will let us own a home, eat reasonably, and maybe have a little on the side to put away for the future and a vacation (or for many of us, pay off student loans). It's a slap in the face to see what some employers expect us to start at and "prove our worth," when it's readily apparent that no companies have any interest in providing the stability that our predecessors were afforded. No longer does a pension exist, healthcare and benefits are nonexistent, and "raises" are a meager 1.5% if they even happen at all. The only way to move up the ladder is to monkey branch.

I work in digital ad tech for a Fortune 500 company. People with my skillset are rare, but I can't tell you how many times I'll fire up a job recruiting site and see "Wanted: Digital Marketing Manager. 3-4 years of experience required. Must be proficient in SEO, SEM, Social Media Management software, Adobe Creative Cloud, HTML5, Java, eCommerce enterprise applications, media & planning software, GoogleAdWords, DoubleClick Bid Manager, and Programmatic display buying.

Salary: $25,000. May be required to work nights and weekends."

That's ridiculous for someone's market value. And not enough to live unless you have three roommates all sharing a 30 year old home in a bad part of town.

It's hard to be "money motivated" when the reality of our lives is that most of us are never going to actually see retirement. And when businesses are frequently disorganized and constantly change your job role or responsibilities claiming they need to "see more."

Rant over, haha. I'm very passionate about this because I spent a good chunk of my 20s without a permanent address, or sleeping in a room with nothing but an old futon pad and a lamp, and had to struggle insanely to get where I am today, which is finally a decent spot in my career.

I think there are always exceptions at both ends of th spectrum. Your fact pattern is counterbalanced by your contemporary in my office who has no discernible skill set that sets her apart stating “I guess I see how this company values me” after working for us for 6 months and not getting a promotion or raise. We all really liked her. She was a hard worker. But really? And this attitude has been prevalent among our millennials to differing degrees. Amazingly enough they also don’t seem to recognize when their contemporary is a star and they are not. We have a handful of them that have gone above and beyond their job descriptions. They think independently and create solutions for problems no one tasked them with. And they get a steady stream of promotions and salary increases. Their less accomplished (and thus less valuable - let’s be honest) cohorts can’t seem to understand why they are not on a similar career tract thus far. Leaves me incredulous.

Finally - I have to ask, if your skill set is so rare and so necessary, the market alone should drive compensation. That’s what supply and demand drives. Why has it not occurred in your industry? Mind you I’m not calling you out, but rather the fact set you present doesn’t seem likely. Is it due to the fact that most in your line of work generally have meeker personalities, thereby allowing themselves to be bullied financially? Just seems odd.

 

[daves]

How did this thread get sidetracked so easily?

The danged millenials did it! And they need to get off my lawn, too! :-D

...dave

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I didn't choose a **** career. I now make my six figures. But the path to get there was a ****** path, and it's bothersome as all hell to be told you're "entitled, spoiled, expect too much, etc.," when nearly every single Boomer was able to go to college (while working a summer job to pay for the whole thing), be handed a career, purchase a home that a family can live in, and stay in their company for the next 40 years, until they retire with a pension that will ensure that they don't go hungry or lose their homes when they're too old to work.

I'm not even saying that jobs need to "make you happy," but that doesn't mean someone should serve you up **** on a plate and you should smile for the privilege to eat it because you're hungry.

The realization that most millennials are coming to is that the "your responsibilities" part of this entire equation isn't actually necessary. You can make your responsibilities what you want them to be. There are now alternative versions of what people view as success, and I sure as hell will you right now that I value "being happy" over struggling to feed and clothe a family for "reasons." Millennials are asking why they should participate in an exhausting marathon that doesn't have a finish line, and questioning that is perfectly valid.

I'm not looking for handouts here, simply saying that the system is broken.

There was a generation between boomers and their pensions and millennials. We had to work for everything we got. No pensions. No on the job training. Largest population competing for slots in college and then jobs afterwards in U. S. history (to that point). Most of us won’t work for the same employee for 40 years. But we still came into the workplace understanding that we had to learn from those that preceded us, had to learn to be professional, and realized that we would advance, and be paid accordingly, based on our merit. These are the elements that I consistently find lacking, in some fashion, in even the best hires we make. The best eventually “get it” but they seemingly never come in with “it.”

 

[Solar7]

Sorry guys, gonna break this up into multiple replies...

You are correct. The system is broken, and it will never come back to what it once was.

The path you took, is the same I took, and will be the same others will have to take. The path is going to be crapola on a stick, but you did what you needed to do, and that is create value in your craft, and leverage at your job.

Congrats on that, by the way.

In the end, you sacrificed other things in your life to get the job you want, AND the pay you want for it.

The path shouldn't be crapola on a stick - as a growing leader in the industry, I find it my responsibility to make sure that future generations don't have to go through what I did, or you did. Shouldn't those who are in charge of the system be constantly thinking toward models of improvement? I think that's what millennials are looking for, but may be poor at articulating.

I appreciate the congratulations, though. I'm proud of my achievements, but I'd rather the course was easier for my peers and for society at large.

 

[Solar7]

I think there are always exceptions at both ends of th spectrum. Your fact pattern is counterbalanced by your contemporary in my office who has no discernible skill set that sets her apart stating “I guess I see how this company values me” after working for us for 6 months and not getting a promotion or raise. We all really liked her. She was a hard worker. But really? And this attitude has been prevalent among our millennials to differing degrees. Amazingly enough they also don’t seem to recognize when their contemporary is a star and they are not. We have a handful of them that have gone above and beyond their job descriptions. They think independently and create solutions for problems no one tasked them with. And they get a steady stream of promotions and salary increases. Their less accomplished (and thus less valuable - let’s be honest) cohorts can’t seem to understand why they are not on a similar career tract thus far. Leaves me incredulous.

Finally - I have to ask, if your skill set is so rare and so necessary, the market alone should drive compensation. That’s what supply and demand drives. Why has it not occurred in your industry? Mind you I’m not calling you out, but rather the fact set you present doesn’t seem likely. Is it due to the fact that most in your line of work generally have meeker personalities, thereby allowing themselves to be bullied financially? Just seems odd.

I try my best not to get hung up on individual stories, but I do think communication is perhaps one of the faltering skillsets with millennials. What should have been kept to herself was instead said out of frustration, and I try to instill the idea in my direct reports that there's a time and place for everything - or at least a better way to say it. Valuation of contemporaries is an issue, but I think it's one that doesn't yet have a solid solution. I think there's some perception that you should be able to come in, do your job, leave, and rise up the ladder. I think millennials thrive on clear goals that move them forward, and there's a perception out there from leadership that they should just "know" how to identify a star performer, or know when to go above and beyond without stepping on someone else's toes.

I've been in many organizations where "going above and beyond" means stepping on senior management's toes, and getting yourself in trouble. Double edged sword.

As to my "market," everyone wants digital marketers, so there is a flood in the market of requests from small businesses and such that want to "go viral." Or insert the hip business term here. Too many people want to get into the game without knowing what it takes to get into the game, so they assume this skillset is something that everyone in my generation has. They quickly get impressed by buzzwords and concepts they don't understand as opposed to looking for the actual results, and there are a lot of people that label themselves as "digital marketers" with little more than a layman's understanding of it.

When hiring myself, it's hard to find someone with legitimate eCommerce experience that can talk to the more complex parts of the business outside of "oh man you totally need to be on Facebook dude, let me make you a profile!"

Meek personalities have nothing to do with it - it's more about someone knowing they want something, and knowing nothing about it, so not truly understanding the kind of expertise it takes.

 

[Solar7]

There was a generation between boomers and their pensions and millennials. We had to work for everything we got. No pensions. No on the job training. Largest population competing for slots in college and then jobs afterwards in U. S. history (to that point). Most of us won’t work for the same employee for 40 years. But we still came into the workplace understanding that we had to learn from those that preceded us, had to learn to be professional, and realized that we would advance, and be paid accordingly, based on our merit. These are the elements that I consistently find lacking, in some fashion, in even the best hires we make. The best eventually “get it” but they seemingly never come in with “it.”

All valid points again, but I think the biggest point here is that you trust that you will be paid accordingly based on your merit. I do not have that confidence in my profession, nor do most of my peers.

I heavily encourage people who ask me about what I do with a genuine talent and interest to ignore it, and go into a trade.

 

[splitsecond]

I like turtles

 

[BigRedRage]

Just like older generations always think the newer generations are lazy and want handouts.

I struggled mightily through my 20s. In my 30's, I'm killing it.

However, killing it is an exception to the norm these days.

I'm lucky to be in sales and good at sales. I get paid based on performance and I am very good at what I do. Most everything is not performance based pay and very difficult to climb up from janitor wages to something you can support a family on.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

How did this thread get sidetracked so easily?

Josh Rosen is an example of the generational conflicts rampant in this country, flamed bright and hot by social media.

All you need is a millennial and a Boomer in the same area, and Bob's your uncle, there you have it.

Josh Rosen is going to get "millennial heat" from the Boomers, and many Boomers are still coaching, hence the "We do not like Josh Rosen and want to punch him in the face" hate he is getting in the league.

I personally love it, and want to see Josh Rosen succeed, just as I do in many other places in the real world, where young adults are just trying to make end's meat, and are getting crapped on for how they go about it.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

However, killing it (in your 30s) is an exception to the norm these days.

And that is where my sympathy turns to questions about personal responsibility. I put in an edit, FYI.

 

[BigRedRage]

And that is where my sympathy turns to questions about personal responsibility. I put in an edit, FYI.

huh?

I don't need any sympathy, I have a great life. I work my ass off and it pays off, I'm happy.

I don't really care enough to go into details

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Sorry guys, gonna break this up into multiple replies...

Its all good. Great convo, and people stopped reading this thread like 10 posts ago. LOL.

The path shouldn't be crapola on a stick - as a growing leader in the industry, I find it my responsibility to make sure that future generations don't have to go through what I did, or you did. Shouldn't those who are in charge of the system be constantly thinking toward models of improvement? I think that's what millennials are looking for, but may be poor at articulating.

I say this with respect, and sincerity. Good luck with that. I do truly respect your want to change things.

Personally, I have enough just to keep myself afloat, and look out for my needs. There was a time I believed in the benefit for all, but that has beaten out of me, and once I concentrated on myself, and being the best version of me that I can be, that is when I found success and happiness.

Not to mention what do you want us to do ? Change things ? How so ? What would we know about what is best for a person who will be here 10 years from now, heck, I believe about three generations from now will just be worried if the planet will be in any shape to sustain life, let alone if they have enough money for a cheeseburger..............and I will stop there.

I appreciate the congratulations, though. I'm proud of my achievements, but I'd rather the course was easier for my peers and for society at large.

I 100% agree with you. I think that would take a HUGE revolution, peace or war, but that is what it would take. You are going to need a lot of the older nationalistic generations that feel there is no need to change anything die off before that happens tho.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

huh?

I don't need any sympathy, I have a great life. I work my ass off and it pays off, I'm happy.

I don't really care enough to go into details

Exactly.

To clarify, I have some sympathy for the current generation trying to figure their way through their 20's, since there is really never been a time in history where people have had this 8 to 10 years where they make crap wages that do not support anything that was be considered "The American Dream". It is a weird time for them, and all the advise from future generations is crap when it comes to this, because they didn't experience it.

So, they have to figure out how to move forward, save money, and more or less tread water till they get the opportunity. I kind of did this, but in the end not sure how it ended up working out in the end.

From what I have experienced, if you have done what you can do, to the best of your abilities, by your 30's an opportunity that can allow for home ownership, a family, and opportunity for enjoying that "American Dream" lifestyle usually presents itself, no always, but more time than not.

Thus the sympathy I have for that 20's something usually fades when they hit 30 something. That is all.

FYI - We all work our ass off, that has nothing to do with it.

 

[BigRedRage]

Exactly.

To clarify, I have some sympathy for the current generation trying to figure their way through their 20's, since there is really never been a time in history where people have had this 8 to 10 years where they make crap wages that do not support anything that was be considered "The American Dream". It is a weird time for them, and all the advise from future generations is crap when it comes to this, because they didn't experience it.

So, they have to figure out how to move forward, save money, and more or less tread water till they get the opportunity. I kind of did this, but in the end not sure how it ended up working out in the end.

From what I have experienced, if you have done what you can do, to the best of your abilities, by your 30's an opportunity that can allow for home ownership, a family, and opportunity for enjoying that "American Dream" lifestyle usually presents itself, no always, but more time than not.

Thus the sympathy I have for that 20's something usually fades when they hit 30 something. That is all.

FYI - We all work our ass off, that has nothing to do with it.

im just working and didn't really understand what you were getting at. When I look nationally, most people in their thirties are screwed too. But you know, the cream rises I guess. I fought, scratched and clawed to where I am today and there was some luck involved too.

But im just interjecting into something I don't really have time to discuss at the moment. My bad.

And I keep staying up way too late and I'm tired as hell. I have so many responsibilities that I relish in my irresponsible time and I have gotten addicted to a game I play in that time and keep sleeping like 4 hours.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

There was a generation between boomers and their pensions and millennials. We had to work for everything we got. No pensions. No on the job training. Largest population competing for slots in college and then jobs afterwards in U. S. history (to that point). Most of us won’t work for the same employee for 40 years. But we still came into the workplace understanding that we had to learn from those that preceded us, had to learn to be professional, and realized that we would advance, and be paid accordingly, based on our merit.

If you can understand you were up against things that no generation was up against before, I think you should look at this younger generation the same way. There may be a reason why they do not have some of the skills you talk about.

BTW - In my experience the "professionalism" and "lessons" learned from those before me needed to be filtered, since a lot of it was complete crap.

If there is one thing Boomers cannot slam millennial for, its being lazy, cause DAMN, I have met a lot of under productive, lazy, entitled boomers in my day, that do not understand that expectations are up these days.

These are the elements that I consistently find lacking, in some fashion, in even the best hires we make. The best eventually “get it” but they seemingly never come in with “it.”

I agree, but aren't most situations like that ? This is capitalism, this is a competition. We have some Boomers that learn technology and others that do not, too.

It is all about work ethic, self-responsibility, and self-improvement. I have three generations of age under me, and all three have been told to build value, and leverage. Regardless of age, some get it, some do not. Again, in my eyes, and experiences.

Great input tho, Ouchie. Good read and I more or less am in the same generation and have experiences a similar situation(s).

 

[Solar7]

Its all good. Great convo, and people stopped reading this thread like 10 posts ago. LOL.

I say this with respect, and sincerity. Good luck with that. I do truly respect your want to change things.

Someone's gotta do it eventually. Although you make some great points.

Personally, I have enough just to keep myself afloat, and look out for my needs. There was a time I believed in the benefit for all, but that has beaten out of me, and once I concentrated on myself, and being the best version of me that I can be, that is when I found success and happiness.

I'm probably more a "benefit for all = benefit for me" kind of person. If the US manages to continue to be an innovator and provide for its people to continue to be able to come up with new successful ideas instead of use all of their resources to struggle to survive, it will eventually help me by providing a service I thought I'd never need. How long ago was it that the concept of a smartphone sounded like too much work, but now it's ubiquitous in culture? Hell, lab grown meat sounds sketchy to many, but what if it solved the problem of hunger in our streets?

Not to mention what do you want us to do ? Change things ? How so ? What would we know about what is best for a person who will be here 10 years from now, heck, I believe about three generations from now will just be worried if the planet will be in any shape to sustain life, let alone if they have enough money for a cheeseburger..............and I will stop there.

More valid points, but yes, we should change things. One step toward change is already occurring - the overall work to try to make sure we don't stigmatize people who enter trade work. People who will continue to fix the machines that help us, fix our plumbing, continue to keep places like Vegas and Phoenix running with air conditioners so we don't all die of heat stroke. They're perfectly noble professions, so if we can end the "it has to be college or you've failed" idea, we'll be in better shape. Let's rethink why we do business, and how it's been done, and streamline processes to make them easier for all. But yeah, the future does look pretty bleak in other areas.

I 100% agree with you. I think that would take a HUGE revolution, peace or war, but that is what it would take. You are going to need a lot of the older nationalistic generations that feel there is no need to change anything die off before that happens tho.

Amen to that. I hate nationalism. I don't hate the ideals of our nation by any means, as long as we live up to them, but I dislike the "I'd take from their mouths to feed mine" mentality.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

im just working and didn't really understand what you were getting at. When I look nationally, most people in their thirties are screwed too. But you know, the cream rises I guess. I fought, scratched and clawed to where I am today and there was some luck involved too.

But im just interjecting into something I don't really have time to discuss at the moment. My bad.

And I keep staying up way too late and I'm tired as hell. I have so many responsibilities that I relish in my irresponsible time and I have gotten addicted to a game I play in that time and keep sleeping like 4 hours.

It is all good.

I thought your comments were good for all.

Yeah, those video games will get ya! I have avoided them like the plague for that very reason, and I love me a good video game. But to commiserate, I do the same. The most immature, irresponsible thing I do, is stay up, way too late.

I think it is because, like most here, I work long hours at a stressful job. The money I make, I use to make my house a sanctuary of peace, and when I get home I enjoy my home life so much that I do not want to go to sleep because that means back to work. So, I understand. I am doing what I can to get better at it, but pleasure can be a bitch. LOL!

 

[BigRedRage]

It is all good.

I thought your comments were good for all.

Yeah, those video games will get ya! I have avoided them like the plague for that very reason, and I love me a good video game. But to commiserate, I do the same. The most immature, irresponsible thing I do, is stay up, way too late.

I think it is because, like most here, I work long hours at a stressful job. The money I make, I use to make my house a sanctuary of peace, and when I get home I enjoy my home life so much that I do not want to go to sleep because that means back to work. So, I understand. I am doing what I can to get better at it, but pleasure can be a bitch. LOL!

that and I have 3 kids, once they go to bed its like okay, now im not making dinner, running errands, cleaning the house, working on the pool, setting up car insurance for my teenager and the host of other crap I do all day so....


Sweet. Ima smoke a little weed, turn on this game, join a room with some random dudes and shoot people until I cant see my screen anymore.

Then I come to work, chug coffee and move forward.

I did sleep early for a long time, id usually pass out when I put my 3 year old to bed and get tons of sleep. This last two weeks ive shifted to this and while its a bitch at times, I have to admit it has been very enjoyable.

I personally only watch TV, movies and etc socially, when im by myself, I choose video games. I should probably clean my garage and work on my jeep but meh

 

[Solar7]

I think it is because, like most here, I work long hours at a stressful job. The money I make, I use to make my house a sanctuary of peace, and when I get home I enjoy my home life so much that I do not want to go to sleep because that means back to work. So, I understand. I am doing what I can to get better at it, but pleasure can be a bitch. LOL!

And as a millennial, this is where I struggle. Why do I work so hard that I don't even want to sleep, because I'm about to go back to a place I hate? Why is my house in need of being a "sanctuary of peace" when I should be feeling comfortable every day that I wake up (barring unforeseen consequences of course)?

What am I doing to myself when my work-life balance is so out of whack that every day of my life is more unhappy than it is happy?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

More valid points, but yes, we should change things. One step toward change is already occurring - the overall work to try to make sure we don't stigmatize people who enter trade work. People who will continue to fix the machines that help us, fix our plumbing, continue to keep places like Vegas and Phoenix running with air conditioners so we don't all die of heat stroke. They're perfectly noble professions, so if we can end the "it has to be college or you've failed" idea, we'll be in better shape. Let's rethink why we do business, and how it's been done, and streamline processes to make them easier for all. But yeah, the future does look pretty bleak in other areas.

Just to clarify, I have MASSIVE respect for tradesmen. If I were smart, I would have been a plumber. Furthermore, I find college to only be necessary for those who are going to use it in a way to produce a job that will make them enough money to pay off the student loans, and prosper. So while I respect colleges, I do not see them as the end all. Far from it. I got a piece of paper from mine, and that is about it.

But a trade is not going to make enough money or produce enough jobs to over take Wallmart, or the automobile industry. I am talking about a small business growing, and becoming big business. Big business has GIGANTIC influence over our lives, and there are no new players being allowed in.

Even the newer ones, Amazon, and Facebook.....do you really see them looking to change the world ? Amazon is hell to work for, and Facebook will sell your grandmother's social security # for a nickel.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

that and I have 3 kids

I have no idea how you do it. I am envious tho.

 

[BigRedRage]

And as a millennial, this is where I struggle. Why do I work so hard that I don't even want to sleep, because I'm about to go back to a place I hate? Why is my house in need of being a "sanctuary of peace" when I should be feeling comfortable every day that I wake up (barring unforeseen consequences of course)?

What am I doing to myself when my work-life balance is so out of whack that every day of my life is more unhappy than it is happy?

I do love my job and im 80% commission so I cannot relate to that part. I love waking up and coming to work. I avoid the sleep just because its the small part of the day that is only for me.

 

[Solar7]

Just to clarify, I have MASSIVE respect for tradesmen. If I were smart, I would have been a plumber. Furthermore, I find college to only be necessary for those who are going to use it in a way to produce a job that will make them enough money to pay off the student loans, and prosper. So while I respect colleges, I do not see them as the end all. Far from it. I got a piece of paper from mine, and that is about it.

But a trade is not going to make enough money or produce enough jobs to over take Wallmart, or the automobile industry. I am talking about a small business growing, and becoming big business. Big business has GIGANTIC influence over our lives, and there are no new players being allowed in.

Even the newer ones, Amazon, and Facebook.....do you really see them looking to change the world ? Amazon is hell to work for, and Facebook will sell your grandmother's social security # for a nickel.

Facebook isn't all that terrible. At least not in how they treat their workers. But companies like Netflix are creating sustainability models around things like unlimited paid time off, free child care, flexible hours, that kind of thing. The startups of the future in many cases are making strides here.

I personally work for a company/boss that does not really monitor paid time off, has a pretty flexible work from home policy, isn't too strict on hours, and makes me feel like an actual human being instead of a drone whose life is dedicated to the glory of the company and profit.

 

[BigRedRage]

I have no idea how you do it. I am envious tho.

I just spent my life putting things everywhere without covering them up and next thing you know here I am.

In seriousness though, It can be trying but honestly, you just do it. You figure it out. Many people run away from it but I am proud to be their father. Everything is for them and then in the end I get some time for me.