I will be totally cool with a rebuild

[Cardiac]

And who is the upgrade at FS/replaces Kerry Rhodes?

Tyvon Branch.

Antione Bethea got a ton of snaps and played well IIRC. Isn't Branch still available and getting close to being healthy again?

Is it silly for me to have a ton of faith in Wilks ability to coach up DB talent? He won't have as much time to devote to the DB's as a HC but he should still have an impact.

What's wacky is that the FA period before this one some Safeties made big coin and this year it was a buyer's market.

 

[CFLredzoned]

His record in one-score games was no accident. Maybe it was a result of the Wyatt Earp effect, but it was statistically unusual. It's unclear what if any strategic advantage Wilks can bring.

BA was a master of closing out the half. Doing that thing where they'd score right at the end of the half, then come out and score again. Racking up a quick 14 points. Belichek is good at that too. In fact, I think they did that to the Cards when Jimmy G beat us, IIRC? I guess that's why BA liked to always receive the kick in the second half. Kind of lost that mojo though last year and he finally had to concede to receiving the first kick.

 

[Cardiac]

BA was a master of closing out the half. Doing that thing where they'd score right at the end of the half, then come out and score again. Racking up a quick 14 points. Belichek is good at that too. In fact, I think they did that to the Cards when Jimmy G beat us, IIRC? I guess that's why BA liked to always receive the kick in the second half. Kind of lost that mojo though last year and he finally had to concede to receiving the first kick.

Not at all I a remember it. If BA won the coin toss he always elected to receive the kick and if we lost the coin toss then the opposing HC almost always elected to defer which means we received the opening kick off and they got the ball to start the 2nd half.

I thought BA did this because he had that much confidence in his offense to score on the opening drive. The past couple of years that turned out not to be the case so at some point last season he did start to defer if he won the coin toss.

 

[CFLredzoned]

Not at all I a remember it. If BA won the coin toss he always elected to receive the kick and if we lost the coin toss then the opposing HC almost always elected to defer which means we received the opening kick off and they got the ball to start the 2nd half.

I thought BA did this because he had that much confidence in his offense to score on the opening drive. The past couple of years that turned out not to be the case so at some point last season he did start to defer if he won the coin toss.

Yeah I did get that backwards didn't I? Still, the part about racking up the quick 14 points was a thing he talked about and happened frequently, I guess in his earlier years.

 

[kerouac9]

Antione Bethea got a ton of snaps and played well IIRC. Isn't Branch still available and getting close to being healthy again?

Is it silly for me to have a ton of faith in Wilks ability to coach up DB talent? He won't have as much time to devote to the DB's as a HC but he should still have an impact.

What's wacky is that the FA period before this one some Safeties made big coin and this year it was a buyer's market.

Bethea was a FS and Branch was Strong, right? I wonder if Wilks will be more traditional in his lineup decisions. If Baker is gonna play more traditional safety, we have another yuuuuge hole at nickel back.

 

[Lagerfilled]

Bethea was a FS and Branch was Strong, right? I wonder if Wilks will be more traditional in his lineup decisions. If Baker is gonna play more traditional safety, we have another yuuuuge hole at nickel back.

Nah... Pretty sure we sign Tre Boston to play FS, Bethea & Baker come down to play SS, and Deatrick Nichols will surprise as the new nickel CB extraordinaire.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Nah... Pretty sure we sign Tre Boston to play FS, Bethea & Baker come down to play SS, and Deatrick Nichols will surprise as the new nickel CB extraordinaire.

Sir, as my nephew would say... "I like the way you think"

 

[Chopper0080]

Bethea was a FS and Branch was Strong, right? I wonder if Wilks will be more traditional in his lineup decisions. If Baker is gonna play more traditional safety, we have another yuuuuge hole at nickel back.

I am curious behind your reasoning in this. Baker played both slot S and single high S at Washington. I would argue that him playing a more traditional role would not impact him as much as he has experience both close to the LOS as well as being the deepest DB on the field.

 

[kerouac9]

I am curious behind your reasoning in this. Baker played both slot S and single high S at Washington. I would argue that him playing a more traditional role would not impact him as much as he has experience both close to the LOS as well as being the deepest DB on the field.

IMO, it's more about whether or not we'll play three safeties when we go to a 5 DB package. Arguably, we don't have 2 starting-caliber cornerbacks. Is Wilks going to be comfortable dropping Baker into the slot (where I agree he can be effective, although I don't think he's as dynamic as Matthieu was from that position)?

For all of Wilks' talk about "we have a system, not a scheme", the Cards actions seem to say that positional flexibility isn't as important as defining clear roles.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Really? Who do we have who's better than Tyrann Mathieu?

Budda Baker, and maybe an old gym sock ? Mathieu looked like a weakness last year, IMHO. At one point Mathieu was dynamic, and versatile, but the guy without a position turned into an actual guy without a position. When your FS cannot cover slot and TE's it is an issue. Not to mention I am happy to have that drama out of the locker room and from the team. Same with John Brown on the offensive side of things.

Yet, there is no one I see better than Dansby or Tramon Williams on this roster at the moment. We will see.

I also think that people aren't going to understand the value that Bruce Arians added as a head coach.

I agree, while I am no where near as down on Wilks as some, I do believe Arians' worth as a coach will show up. When adversity hits, how will the current crop of coaches, and management handle it ?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

IMHO, this season is a rebuild.

 

[kerouac9]

Budda Baker, and maybe an old gym sock ? Mathieu looked like a weakness last year, IMHO. At one point Mathieu was dynamic, and versatile, but the guy without a position turned into an actual guy without a position. When your FS cannot cover slot and TE's it is an issue. Not to mention I am happy to have that drama out of the locker room and from the team. Same with John Brown on the offensive side of things.

Yet, there is no one I see better than Dansby or Tramon Williams on this roster at the moment. We will see.



I agree, while I am no where near as down on Wilks as some, I do believe Arians' worth as a coach will show up. When adversity hits, how will the current crop of coaches, and management handle it ?

Matthieu played a lot of snaps (like, all of them) for a guy who couldn't play football. I don't know how that relationship got so poisonous that takes like this exist.

Again, Budda Baker can't play safety and nickel corner AT THE SAME TIME. IMO, Tyrann was a much better nickel corner than a safety, and I said this for two years. But we're gonna have 5+ defensive backs on the field more often than not next season, and as far as I can tell, we have 3 starting-caliber ones.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Matthieu played a lot of snaps (like, all of them) for a guy who couldn't play football. I don't know how that relationship got so poisonous that takes like this exist.

Getting beat in coverage, not making the plays he was making less than a year and a half prior, not tackling like he was in the past, and getting paid like a top 5 defensive back in the league for it.

Nothing against Mathieu, but his play, and hype didn't match his pay. I cannot be the only person who has this opinion, he didn't exactly light up the free ageny market this offseason, so that is saying something without anything being said.

Mathieu proves me and the doubters wrong, and lights it up in Houston ? I will be very happy for him. But without taking a paycut, I do not see where it would have been wise to keep him around in Arizona, and I do not think it will be that hard to replace him.

As for replacing him, what position you want replaced ? I agree Mathieu used to play nickel back at an elite level, yet never saw much out of him at FS that really was special.

I would hope Baker ends up in the slot more times than most, and as for free safety, I dunno, that is a good question. I was one that thought the Cardinals needed to draft a free safety, or sign Tre Boston, or one of the other free safety players.

Will the free safety position be the position that ends up being a big mistake for being looked over ? I dunno. We will see.

 

[pinetopred]

TM was out classed all year in the slot by quick guys, a step or two behind on 5-10 yard patterns. Houston maybe will use him more in a Centerfield role and he may thrive but his days of staying with quickness looked over to me and that was where he was so good. Maybe he can prove me wrong and regain some of what he lost to injuries, but forsure wasn't worth the money he was being paid.

 

[Cardiac]

Bethea was a FS and Branch was Strong, right? I wonder if Wilks will be more traditional in his lineup decisions. If Baker is gonna play more traditional safety, we have another yuuuuge hole at nickel back.

Good points, SK & SW must have a back up plan.

 

[kerouac9]

TM was out classed all year in the slot by quick guys, a step or two behind on 5-10 yard patterns. Houston maybe will use him more in a Centerfield role and he may thrive but his days of staying with quickness looked over to me and that was where he was so good. Maybe he can prove me wrong and regain some of what he lost to injuries, but forsure wasn't worth the money he was being paid.

Cards were top 10 against all receiver types except #1s and RBs.

Matthieu was wildly overpaid for his production, but he was fine last year. PFF’s grades aren’t everything, but they had him rated as average.

 

[Chopper0080]

IMO, it's more about whether or not we'll play three safeties when we go to a 5 DB package. Arguably, we don't have 2 starting-caliber cornerbacks. Is Wilks going to be comfortable dropping Baker into the slot (where I agree he can be effective, although I don't think he's as dynamic as Matthieu was from that position)?

For all of Wilks' talk about "we have a system, not a scheme", the Cards actions seem to say that positional flexibility isn't as important as defining clear roles.

I understand your point now. Not feasible for Baker to play either S spot and a slot CB spot. Lack of depth at S and CB makes options very limited.

I agree that Mathieu was overpaid, not terrible.

 

[Goldfield]

And who is the upgrade at FS/replaces Kerry Rhodes?

Wasn’t that awhile ago now lol

 

[THESMEL]

DJ is an MVP candidate - Fitz is a legend, PP pro bowl cb Jones is top NFL sacker - hot hot core- can’t call that a rebuild? I think Sam is pro bowl QB and Josh may be better? I’m excited as long as we actually run a balanced offense like a pro football team! We have many potential breakout players - our rb group could be our best ever!

Only thing I’m worried about is the fan base - forged in the fire of adversity- we use to appreciate every first down, touchdown- game more than other teams fans - smushdown! Cardinal up and tak3 it like a fan

 

[juza76]

DJ is an MVP candidate - Fitz is a legend, PP pro bowl cb Jones is top NFL sacker - hot hot core- can’t call that a rebuild? I think Sam is pro bowl QB and Josh may be better? I’m excited as long as we actually run a balanced offense like a pro football team! We have many potential breakout players - our rb group could be our best ever!

Only thing I’m worried about is the fan base - forged in the fire of adversity- we use to appreciate every first down, touchdown- game more than other teams fans - smushdown! Cardinal up and tak3 it like a fan

We are the real contenders

 

[CardNots]

DJ is an MVP candidate - Fitz is a legend, PP pro bowl cb Jones is top NFL sacker - hot hot core- can’t call that a rebuild? I think Sam is pro bowl QB and Josh may be better? I’m excited as long as we actually run a balanced offense like a pro football team! We have many potential breakout players - our rb group could be our best ever!

Only thing I’m worried about is the fan base - forged in the fire of adversity- we use to appreciate every first down, touchdown- game more than other teams fans - smushdown! Cardinal up and tak3 it like a fan

My general state of the fan base address as well...

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Matthieu was wildly overpaid for his production, but he was fine last year. PFF’s grades aren’t everything, but they had him rated as average.

Agreed.

And I also agree Budda Baker won't be as dynamic as the pre-injuries Mathieu, but not many will be, or dare I say ever be.

For Mathieu's career, he had a year's worth of time (about 16 games) where he was the best defender (pick any position on the field) in the NFL. It was ridiculous what he was doing.

To a lesser extent, John Brown was ready to take the league by STORM.

Both in a matter of a year went south. Mathieu from tops in the league to average, and Brown from great to barely hanging on in the league.

Such a shame.

 

[oaken1]

Agreed.

And I also agree Budda Baker won't be as dynamic as the pre-injuries Mathieu, but not many will be, or dare I say ever be.

For Mathieu's career, he had a year's worth of time (about 16 games) where he was the best defender (pick any position on the field) in the NFL. It was ridiculous what he was doing.

To a lesser extent, John Brown was ready to take the league by STORM.

Both in a matter of a year went south. Mathieu from tops in the league to average, and Brown from great to barely hanging on in the league.

Such a shame.

yeah. I have to keep reminding myself of some of these things when I get down on SK. Both JB and TM were looking like future HoF players before injuries ruined them. they were both good gets.

if there is any lesson to be learned there,...look at their size.

sure bigger guys get hurt too,... but it is more likely and more frequent with smaller guys.

we would be a different team right now had those guys both stayed healthy. not just because they would be here,... but we would have drafted differently over the past couple years too.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

yeah. I have to keep reminding myself of some of these things when I get down on SK. Both JB and TM were looking like future HoF players before injuries ruined them. they were both good gets.

if there is any lesson to be learned there,...look at their size.

sure bigger guys get hurt too,... but it is more likely and more frequent with smaller guys.

we would be a different team right now had those guys both stayed healthy. not just because they would be here,... but we would have drafted differently over the past couple years too.

It it is different case with Daryl Washington and Michael Floyd, but if they could have stayed on the straight and narrow.....Maybe Washington would see his career ending soon anyway since he is now 31, but what could have been.

100% agreed, on the athlete's size to getting injury comparison, FYI.

 

[pinetopred]

I completely disagree with both players one has sickle cell the other bad knees neither has anything to do with their size