If Max Hall Takes Over The Reins...

Cardinals.Ken

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I hope we see play like this:

Marshaling the offense to a "scrappy" score



But what I expect to see is this:

5 interceptions, 2 fumbles lost



Anderson has earned his way to bench, but it'll get worse with Hall...way worse.
 

Shane

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Probably most of #2

With one drive of #1 for whole game

:)
 

Pariah

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They'll be growing pains, for sure. But at least we can call them that instead of just "pains" as we have with Scud.
 

desertdawg

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They'll be growing pains, for sure. But at least we can call them that instead of just "pains" as we have with Scud.

Yes sir, we were able to see a half from each QB yesterday. DA has had more practice with the first string, more experience in the NFL, and a 0-0 score to start the game with.

Hall is undrafted, wasn't prepared as the starter for the bolts, and had never seen a real NFL defense. Also he came in when the game was already over, (2mins left in second half? ) the bolts defense knew we had to throw it, and knew it was a rookie back there.

Hall out played DA. Hall isn't going to have instant success. But I'll take him and his "noodle arm" any day over DA. At least I have A small hope at QB. (no pun) :D
 

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I don't know how he plays if he starts. What I do know it wont be as bad as the DA!

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Russ Smith

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Someone needs to show K9 this video that ball went at least 35 yards in the air and K9 insists Max can't do that. Wasn't a laser shot but he got the ball there.

Max played horrible against Utah each of the last 2 years, they really had his number although he beat Utah the 2nd time.

Of course if you really want to see him at his best check out the 7TD game against UCLA 2 years ago.
 
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Cardinals.Ken

Cardinals.Ken

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Don't get me wrong...I want to see Mad Max light it up, and become everything we had hoped Jake The Snake would be...but if he does crack the starting lineup, I'm not fooling myself anymore into thinking that we'll even play .500 ball this season.
 

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Someone needs to show K9 this video that ball went at least 35 yards in the air and K9 insists Max can't do that. Wasn't a laser shot but he got the ball there.

Max played horrible against Utah each of the last 2 years, they really had his number although he beat Utah the 2nd time.

Of course if you really want to see him at his best check out the 7TD game against UCLA 2 years ago.

Do you really think that he completes that pass with Deshon Goldston playing safety instead of some guy who's hoping that the UFL gives him a call?
 

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Don't get me wrong...I want to see Mad Max light it up, and become everything we had hoped Jake The Snake would be...but if he does crack the starting lineup, I'm not fooling myself anymore into thinking that we'll even play .500 ball this season.

We wont sniff with DA so whats the point in sticking with him? Go through all our QB's until we strike gold or learn we need to draft a QB. Its simple.
 
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Cardinals.Ken

Cardinals.Ken

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We wont sniff with DA so whats the point in sticking with him? Go through all our QB's until we strike gold or learn we need to draft a QB. Its simple.

True, I just get the feeling that some folks may feel that the switch will lead us to the promised land this year...and it aint gonna happen.
 

conraddobler

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True, I just get the feeling that some folks may feel that the switch will lead us to the promised land this year...and it aint gonna happen.

Not me, I want Hall simply out of curiosity for next year and beyond, I have no curiousity for DA, IMO I know exactly what he is.

Don't get me wrong, I expect Hall to lose, a lot, but I want to see if he gets better or if he gets worse, I want to see what he has, that's strictly for the future, I expect little to nothing out of him now other than to show improvement over time.
 

Linderbee

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Not me, I want Hall simply out of curiosity for next year and beyond, I have no curiousity for DA, IMO I know exactly what he is.

Don't get me wrong, I expect Hall to lose, a lot, but I want to see if he gets better or if he gets worse, I want to see what he has, that's strictly for the future, I expect little to nothing out of him now other than to show improvement over time
.
Exactly my feelings. I can get behind that--I can cheer like crazy for the rookie, and see how he's going to do.

DA makes me want to vomit, and I can't back that. :)
 

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If Max Hall becomes the starter, we better get used to seeing this:

You must be registered for see images attach
 

82CardsGrad

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Because we didn't see that with DA?


Of course we did. FWIW - I have been and remain a Max Hall fan. I want him in there, now! There is no way he will do any worse than what we've had with DA.
This photo is a pure indictment on our o-line, not Hall!
 

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Do you really think that he completes that pass with Deshon Goldston playing safety instead of some guy who's hoping that the UFL gives him a call?

I have no idea it sort of depends where the safety is. The point was instead of giving reasons why you think Hall can't play, you keep saying he can't throw the ball 30 yards, now it's 20 yards. He has a noodle arm etc.

His arm is better than you think it is, whether or not he can start in the NFL we'll know a lot better by the end of the year.

It's just very hard for me to realize that Ken Whisenhunt disliked Matt so much he kept Hall knowing full well his arm wasn't NFL caliber. He had OTA's and camp and preseason to see Hall's arm and he kept him, I think Whiz believes he's got enough arm.

It's different than Anderson, Whiz made the classic ego coach mistake there, yes he's sucked before but he's got a great arm and I'm a better coach than those other guys were, I'll get him to play better than they did.
 

D-Dogg

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Of course we did. FWIW - I have been and remain a Max Hall fan. I want him in there, now! There is no way he will do any worse than what we've had with DA.
This photo is a pure indictment on our o-line, not Hall!

:raccoon:
 

Russ Smith

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True, I just get the feeling that some folks may feel that the switch will lead us to the promised land this year...and it aint gonna happen.

Yeah I certainly don't think that either. I just think it's pretty clear with DA we're not going anywhere.

Anything DA can learn from Whiz he can learn as a backup, working on mechanics, watching film, repetition, working on his mechanics. So it's not like benching DA will prevent us from making him a better QB.
 

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I have no idea it sort of depends where the safety is. The point was instead of giving reasons why you think Hall can't play, you keep saying he can't throw the ball 30 yards, now it's 20 yards. He has a noodle arm etc.

His arm is better than you think it is, whether or not he can start in the NFL we'll know a lot better by the end of the year.

It's just very hard for me to realize that Ken Whisenhunt disliked Matt so much he kept Hall knowing full well his arm wasn't NFL caliber. He had OTA's and camp and preseason to see Hall's arm and he kept him, I think Whiz believes he's got enough arm.

It's different than Anderson, Whiz made the classic ego coach mistake there, yes he's sucked before but he's got a great arm and I'm a better coach than those other guys were, I'll get him to play better than they did.

So you're sure that Coach was right about #7 and Max Hall, but you know that Coach was wrong about Derek Anderson?

Do I think that Max Hall can't throw the ball 40 yards? Of course not; I can throw the ball 40 yards. But I can't throw the ball 40 yards and not have it picked off by an NFL cornerback or safety. I don't think that Max Hall can, either. He certainly didn't try despite having time on more than the two occaisions that you noted. In fact, why not just huck the ball down the field on that play where he was scrambling to his right and pointing someone down the field? Isn't the whole point that you put the ball up to Larry Fitzgerald and let him go get it?

He does have a noodle arm. He has a weaker arm than #7 or Kurt Warner. I've seen it in all of the games that he's played in. I can't think of a starting NFL quarterback who has a weaker arm than Max Hall right now. Can you?
 

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So you're sure that Coach was right about #7 and Max Hall, but you know that Coach was wrong about Derek Anderson?

Do I think that Max Hall can't throw the ball 40 yards? Of course not; I can throw the ball 40 yards. But I can't throw the ball 40 yards and not have it picked off by an NFL cornerback or safety. I don't think that Max Hall can, either. He certainly didn't try despite having time on more than the two occaisions that you noted. In fact, why not just huck the ball down the field on that play where he was scrambling to his right and pointing someone down the field? Isn't the whole point that you put the ball up to Larry Fitzgerald and let him go get it?

He does have a noodle arm. He has a weaker arm than #7 or Kurt Warner. I've seen it in all of the games that he's played in. I can't think of a starting NFL quarterback who has a weaker arm than Max Hall right now. Can you?

What a bunch of crap... DA has a rocket of an arm... Yea!
Max Hall might not make it in the NFL as a starter, but if so, it will have nothing to do with arm strength. His arm is more than strong enough for the NFL.

And what's with the refernce to Warner? Are you attempting to suggest that Kurt had a weak arm?
 

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What a bunch of crap... DA has a rocket of an arm... Yea!
Max Hall might not make it in the NFL as a starter, but if so, it will have nothing to do with arm strength. His arm is more than strong enough for the NFL.

And what's with the refernce to Warner? Are you attempting to suggest that Kurt had a weak arm?

So you think the only concern that NFL teams had with Max Hall was his height? Really? Every team in the NFL passed on him and no team with a competitive #3 QB situation wanted him except for the Cards who only had to offer a $5K signing bonus to get him, only because he's 6'0"? Do you really believe that? When Drew Brees is the reigning Super Bowl MVP?

Kurt had a comparatively weak arm, especially last year. Not every QB with a cannon on his shoulder is good (that's obviously not what I'm saying)--Kyle Boller, Mike Vick, Daunte Culpepper, JaMarcus Russell, and Derek Anderson are obviously evidence of that. You don't have to have a cannon for an arm to succeed in the NFL at quarterback. But there is a threshold where if you don't have the arm strength to get the ball to your target within an NFL time frame, you limit your passing tree (like the deep out) and the effectiveness of your wideouts.
 

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So you think the only concern that NFL teams had with Max Hall was his height? Really? Every team in the NFL passed on him and no team with a competitive #3 QB situation wanted him except for the Cards who only had to offer a $5K signing bonus to get him, only because he's 6'0"? Do you really believe that? When Drew Brees is the reigning Super Bowl MVP?

Kurt had a comparatively weak arm, especially last year. Not every QB with a cannon on his shoulder is good (that's obviously not what I'm saying)--Kyle Boller, Mike Vick, Daunte Culpepper, JaMarcus Russell, and Derek Anderson are obviously evidence of that. You don't have to have a cannon for an arm to succeed in the NFL at quarterback. But there is a threshold where if you don't have the arm strength to get the ball to your target within an NFL time frame, you limit your passing tree (like the deep out) and the effectiveness of your wideouts.


I honestly don't know why NFL teams passed on Hall. But based upon what I've seen, including the few throws yesterday, I don't see arm strength being as being an issue. And I find it very hard for you to make this claim, based soley upon the fact the he went undrafted. Have you spoken with teams about why they passed on him? Have you seen something in camp, preseason or yesterday that made you believe he has inferior arm strength? If so, what?? When??
 

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So you're sure that Coach was right about #7 and Max Hall, but you know that Coach was wrong about Derek Anderson?

Do I think that Max Hall can't throw the ball 40 yards? Of course not; I can throw the ball 40 yards. But I can't throw the ball 40 yards and not have it picked off by an NFL cornerback or safety. I don't think that Max Hall can, either. He certainly didn't try despite having time on more than the two occaisions that you noted. In fact, why not just huck the ball down the field on that play where he was scrambling to his right and pointing someone down the field? Isn't the whole point that you put the ball up to Larry Fitzgerald and let him go get it?

He does have a noodle arm. He has a weaker arm than #7 or Kurt Warner. I've seen it in all of the games that he's played in. I can't think of a starting NFL quarterback who has a weaker arm than Max Hall right now. Can you?

The first question the answer is yes, they're entirely different situations. With Hall he had months to see him in person, if Hall's arm is as weak as you say there's no way Whiz makes him the backup. Whiz isn't going to be nice to the kid because he's local and Danny White's nephew, NFL coaches make too much money and get fired too easily to make a decision like that.

On Matt again I don't think it was just about talent, he didn't think the team believed in Matt Leinart, and if the team doesn't believe in the QB, you can't win with him.

With Anderson it's a completely different scenario, Anderson has the arm to play in the NFL, he's got a VERY strong arm, he's got the size, he's athletic enough. The problem with Anderson is not his arm it's the rest of his game, accuracy, touch, fundamentals, the mental part of the game, and apparently right now confidence. And yes it's quite plausible for an NFL coach to make that mistake. When we made the switch I wrote repeatedly right here DA is a "coach killer", that's where the expression comes from. He's a guy who has enough talent to convince a coach he can be good if he learns some things, and I'm the guy that's going to teach him. That's what his coaches in college thought,and it's what his NFL coaches thought too. Especially because he had that brief run in Cleveland where he was good, everyone sees those games and thinks I'm a better coach than they were. Right now there's one coach in the NFL who IMHO consistently gets the best out of QB's, that's Mike Shanahan, and I don't think he could get DA to be good. HIs problem is that alot of the throws you make in the NFL can't be thrown on a string, they have to have touch, drop the ball over the LB but in front of the safety, put the ball up and away where only your WR can catch it.
Anderson's throws have too much on them, he doesn't throw a catchable ball, Hall does. Like that one that Patrick caught that was low, if Anderson puts that throw in the same spot Patrick drops it because it would not only be low, it'd be too hard.

As for the last part that's like saying someone is the dumbest guy in a physics class at MIT, you're talking about a subset of the population that is EXTREMELY small. There's only 32 guys starting in the NFL, and there's a lot of guys not starting who have stronger arms than the guy starting ahead of them. Hell Jamarcus Russell had arguably the best arm in the whole NFL, Anderson has a great arm. Longtime Cards fans(and Texas fans) will remember Rick McIvor, he had a cannon for an arm. I remember one year SI's comment on him was something like "backup Rick McIvor's arm is so strong he could throw the ball through a cement wall, if only he could hit it."

I haven't seen Hall enough to know where his arm ranks among NFL starters,
I'm guessing it's stronger than Charlie Batch, I think it's as good if not better than Gradkowski, Delhomme never had a strong arm. There are some throws Hall won't be able to make, there were throws Kurt couldn't make either, that's what makes guys like Peyton, Rodgers etc the best, they have the great arm AND they can make all the touch throws. The rest of them have to find other ways to excel. Some like Brees still become great, he's an outlier of course but just making an NFL roster at QB as a UDFA is unusual, to become the backup as a rookie that's pretty rare, so Hall is already an outlier.
 

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It's naive to think DA at this point is the best option at QB. NFL history says not to bring in a rookie UDFA QB as the starter while being 1st place in the division but I guarantee if DA remains the starter, he will be more of a liability than Mad Max. Let the rook take his lumps and eventually grow into "the guy." IF he does well, it means we dont have to look QB in the first round next season.
 

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I honestly don't know why NFL teams passed on Hall. But based upon what I've seen, including the few throws yesterday, I don't see arm strength being as being an issue. And I find it very hard for you to make this claim, based soley upon the fact the he went undrafted. Have you spoken with teams about why they passed on him? Have you seen something in camp, preseason or yesterday that made you believe he has inferior arm strength? If so, what?? When??

In nearly every pass that he's made or attempted he's shown having to hide inadequate arm strength. I've been saying it since he was named the #2. Even in that highlight in this thread, Max Komar had to come back to the ball while the (fourth-string) safety was coming up on him.

You have no idea why no other NFL teams wanted him. I have some ideas. Some might have been height, some might have been because he went to a Mickey Mouse school, some might have been because he has a noodle arm.

I've seen 43 in-game pass attempts from Max Hall, and I'm convinced that he has inadequate arm strength to start at the NFL level. People whom I've talked to who saw Max Hall in camp said the same thing. You can not agree with me for now; I'll wait for you to catch up with me.
 

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