If Plummer were available at a reasonable cost for next year, would you sign him?

[Jttsaz]

Honestly...why would Jake even want comeback to Arizona? Been there, done that...unless there was no place else to go...It would be dejavu all over again...

 

[chickenhead]

On the bright side, I guess I could wear my Plummer jersey again.

 

[Russ Smith]

Honestly...why would Jake even want comeback to Arizona? Been there, done that...unless there was no place else to go...It would be dejavu all over again...

He does still live in Arizona.

 

[Lex]

For the reading comprehension challenged:

If Plummer were available ...

My response would be something like this.

It wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened. I remember when the Vikings got an NFL franchise, I think it was 1962. At the time I was a 4 year old Viking fan. We had a quarterback that played for the Vikings, then went to play for another team for a few years, and came back to the Vikings. When he came back, it worked out pretty good for us, we went to the Super Bowl, so it has happened before successfully.

 

[Russ Smith]

It wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened. I remember when the Vikings got an NFL franchise, I think it was 1962. At the time I was a 4 year old Viking fan. We had a quarterback that played for the Vikings, then went to play for another team for a few years, and came back to the Vikings. When he came back, it worked out pretty good for us, we went to the Super Bowl, so it has happened before successfully.

Do you mean Fran Tarkenton?

That's Incredible.

 

[CardLogic]

Tarkenton... DOH!


Thought I read that Jake's home in Arizona was either recently sold or on the market.

 

[Russ Smith]

Tarkenton... DOH!


Thought I read that Jake's home in Arizona was either recently sold or on the market.

It was but I read somewhere he still has a place in ARizona and lives there in the offseason when he's not riding ATV's in Idaho.

 

[CardLogic]

For the reading comprehension challenged:

If Plummer were available ...

My response would be something like this.

It wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened. I remember when the Vikings got an NFL franchise, I think it was 1962. At the time I was a 4 year old Viking fan. We had a quarterback that played for the Vikings, then went to play for another team for a few years, and came back to the Vikings. When he came back, it worked out pretty good for us, we went to the Super Bowl, so it has happened before successfully.

But Lex, you failed to recognize that Tarkenton was very good in his initial years with the Vikings also. Indeed, when traded to New York the Giants gave up two No. 1 and two No. 2 draft picks to aquire Tarkenton.

By placing Jake in a similar scenario, returning to the team he started with as a rookie and naming the Vikings you were making a comparision with Tark, as if Jake could come back to the Cardinals and have the type of success that Tarkenton did in his second tenure with the Vikings. Mao, I and certainly others view that as an incredibly unlikely scenario.

 

[Syracusecards]

Even if we pursued him and tried to court him, he'd probably tell us that we could have a great future together.....but then he'd leave us at the altar.....

 

[gamebird98]

yes..ill take him.

 

[TRW]

But Lex, you failed to recognize that Tarkenton was very good in his initial years with the Vikings also. Indeed, when traded to New York the Giants gave up two No. 1 and two No. 2 draft picks to aquire Tarkenton.

By placing Jake in a similar scenario, returning to the team he started with as a rookie and naming the Vikings you were making a comparision with Tark, as if Jake could come back to the Cardinals and have the type of success that Tarkenton did in his second tenure with the Vikings. Mao, I and certainly others view that as an incredibly unlikely scenario.

Count me in you and Mao's number Card.

Jake Plummer is NO Fran Tarkenton. Never was and never will be I don't think. Isn't Fran in the Hall of Fame?

 

[Jetstream Green]

No

Fran is even more bitter about the Hall of Fame stuff than Boomer is about the Cardinals. I use to like Tarkenton till he started whining like a baby over the whole Canton stuff.

 

[ajcardfan]

Fran is even more bitter about the Hall of Fame stuff than Boomer is about the Cardinals. I use to like Tarkenton till he started whining like a baby over the whole Canton stuff.

What did he whine about? He is in the HOF:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=209#

I had forgotten the monster stats he had piled up. He's still fourth all-time in passing yards. He also rushed for a lot of yards and TDs.

 

[AzCards06]

Interesting.

First 8 years in the NFL (for Plummer up to last week)

Tarkenton: games--112
Plummer..: games--107

Tarkenton: att-2613 comp-1410 pct-53.9 yds-20222 yd/att-7.7
Plummer..: att-3450 comp-1955 pct-56.7 yds-22833 yd/att-6.6

Rushing

Tarkenton: att-394 yds-2500 rush td's-20
Plummer..: att-324 yds-1510 rush td's-13

Biggest difference:

Tarkenton: Pass td's--163 Int's--126
Plummer..: Pass td's--127 Int's--136

 

[CardLogic]

Comparing QB stats from the 60's-70's to today is an inefficacious exercise!
The game has changed, the rules have changed, etc.

If you really think that Plummer has had anywhere near the type of career that Tarkenton had you are deluded!

 

[Lex]

CardLogic-

Yeah, the game HAS changed since the 60's and 70's.

Back then, you'd have the same offensive line, backs and recievers, and coaching staff for 5 to 10 years, if not longer. That type of stability can really help a quarterback. I watched Tark's entire career, both stints with the Vikes.

I've also watched Plummers entire career, at ASU, and the Cards.

According to the stats, Plummer is more accurate, 56.7% comp rate, to Tarks 53.9%. Plummer threw a pick every 25 attempts, while Tark threw a pick every 20 attempts. Clearly, Tark ran the ball MUCH more than Jake did his first 8 years in the league.

But keep this in mind, after 8 years in the league, Tark was still with the Giants, and didn't get to the Super Bowl till he came back to the Vikes. His career wasn't even half over yet after 8 years. Plummer's got a lot of football left to play.

Jake Plummer is the highest rated quarterback in Denver Broncos history.

Just goes to show, like a lot of other people around here, you are in denial about Plummer. You were wrong about him, and now you don't have the courage to admit it.

 

[SECTION 11]

Plummer blows.
Remember when all he needed was some support around him?
Well, now he has the #5 defense and #7 running game and his 20+ picks (again) is going to keep Denver at home for the holidays.

 

[Russ Smith]

CardLogic-

Yeah, the game HAS changed since the 60's and 70's.

Back then, you'd have the same offensive line, backs and recievers, and coaching staff for 5 to 10 years, if not longer. That type of stability can really help a quarterback. I watched Tark's entire career, both stints with the Vikes.

I've also watched Plummers entire career, at ASU, and the Cards.

According to the stats, Plummer is more accurate, 56.7% comp rate, to Tarks 53.9%. Plummer threw a pick every 25 attempts, while Tark threw a pick every 20 attempts. Clearly, Tark ran the ball MUCH more than Jake did his first 8 years in the league.

But keep this in mind, after 8 years in the league, Tark was still with the Giants, and didn't get to the Super Bowl till he came back to the Vikes. His career wasn't even half over yet after 8 years. Plummer's got a lot of football left to play.

Jake Plummer is the highest rated quarterback in Denver Broncos history.

Just goes to show, like a lot of other people around here, you are in denial about Plummer. You were wrong about him, and now you don't have the courage to admit it.

Late' 70's early 80's the NFL dramatically changed rules to help the passing game, specifically pass interference rules, Fran played basically his whole career BEFORE that rule change.

Fran threw a pick ever 24 attempts per Pro Football reference, jake every 25, and remember Jake hasn't had his BAD end of career numbers yet, Fran threw 54 picks in his last 3 seasons including an Incredible(tm) 32 his final season in 1978 at the age of 38. If Jake plays 18 years I'm betting his career INT rate comes out pretty close to Fran's.

TD's are a big difference, Fran one ever 19 attempts, Jake one ever 27 attempts but again Jake's number is getting better in Denver he never topped 18 as a Cardinal.

What's fascinating with Fran is the guy played 12 years without ever topping 58% and then topped 60% 5 of his next 6 seasons. I'm not really old enough to remember if there was some rule change in 1973 that explains this? I'll have to look for it.

Jake is markedly better in Denver than I ever expected he would be, despite all that there are STILL reports that they might not pick up his option although I don't believe it for a second. I never felt we could be a contender with Jake at QB, so far it doesn't appear Denver can either although he's clearly played extremely well there.

 

[SECTION 11]

His TD's this year have gone up 47% from last year, his interceptions have gone up 114%.
This is with a full quarter of the season left.

Unbelievable.

 

[CardLogic]

CardLogic-

Just goes to show, like a lot of other people around here, you are in denial about Plummer. You were wrong about him, and now you don't have the courage to admit it.

I like Jake! I also have watched Plummer during his Sun Devil career and his entire pro career. I have often defended Jake in discussions (outside of this board) by stating that he is a class guy (think of full page ad in AZ Republic) who will lay it all out on the field. I admire his determination and heart. What part of that would you claim to be wrong!

Jake is better than at least two-thirds of the QB's currently in the NFL (not better than 2/3 of the starters). But I am not ready to "Cantonize" him. And to think he could be the savior of the Cardinals upon his return to Arizona is "Tangoesque"!

 

[Russ Smith]

From NFL.com. Looks like 1974 they changed illegal contact rules and offensive holding went from 15 to 10 yards to try to encourage more passing.

In 1977 in an effort to further open it up they made the contact rule so you could only contact a receiver once. Looks like the jump in Tarkenton's % was a combination of that and whatever change they made to their offense.

I watched him play at teh end of his career I just remember a small guy who ran around a lot and threw wobbly passes to Sammie White and Chuck Foreman out of the backfield.

He's in the HOF largely on longevity and sheer numbers.

 

[Lex]

Russ-

You point out the fact that Tark's pick/attempt ratio went from one every 20 attempts, to one every 24 attempts, over the final 10 years of his career. That's still worse than Jakes ratio of one pick per 25 attempts, and Jake, to be fair, gets another 10 years to improve his ratio, for YOUR comparison to be valid, that's why comparing each players first 8 years is the only fair way to compare.

Rules changes are far less impactful on a qb's numbers, than the overwhelming advantage a qb had playing with the same players and coaches year, after year, after year, in the days before free agency.

The book on Plummer has yet to be written. He has a lot of football left to play. I don't think for a minute that Denver would let the highest rated qb in the teams history go, but if they were that dumb, there will be plenty of teams looking to bring him in.

Jake Plummer is the ONLY Arizona Cardinal quarterback to start more than ONE season here. (6 consecutive years) I won't bring up the ONLY playoff appearance/win.

 

[Pariah]

I don't think for a minute that Denver would let the highest rated qb in the teams history go, but if they were that dumb, there will be plenty of teams looking to bring him in.

Is Jake's QB rating that high? I would have thought that Griese would have held that distinction after the season he only had something like 4 picks and 20 TDs and was uncannily accurate. (and they let him go)

 

[Pariah]

Also, from where I sit, people are getting pretty tired of Jake's carelessness with the ball. It took a season and a half, but Bronco fans around here are coming to me and saying "you were right."

 

[Lex]

Russ-

Fran retired after the 78 season, so I doubt the rules changes in 77 affected his numbers much. Looks like the biggest difference for Fran late in his career was, he stopped running the ball.