If we are going to trade Amare then I want to get Kobe back...

[S_Nash]

There's only two people on our roster that when traded, could bring back equal, or close to the same amount of talent. Those two are Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire.

However you can't trade Shawn Marion for a Paul Pierce, Michael Redd..etc and expect to be any better. Like everyone else I get frustrated at times with Shawn's play. I agree he's not worth his contract, but I also believe that he is a big part of the Suns' success. I fail to see where trading him for a 1-on-1 SG/scorer would help.

Amare on the other hand has alot of value. Again, it seems pointless to trade him because we're giving up size. Which is something we need to get past the good teams in the West. However if you give Amare up for depth, it mightn't be too bad.

The only team I could see us having a fair trade with is the Chicago Bulls.

Amare Stoudemire
Atlanta Pick

for

Ben Wallace
Tyrus Thomas
Luol Deng

I have absolutely no idea if this would work cap wise or what, but if we could pull of a trade with these 4 guys as the main cogs. I'd be happy (I think)

Nash/#24
Bell/Barbosa
Deng/Thomas
Marion/Diaw
Wallace/KT/

 

[D-Dogg]

That's because your primary focus is on having superstars in LA. Otherwise, Nash-led team will get you success right away.

No, Nash won't get success right away. He didn't get success in Dallas with a MUCH more talented roster.

 

[azirish]

Ben Wallace
Tyrus Thomas
Luol Deng

I would never do that deal. Perhaps if I though Tyrus was on the verge of becoming a superstar, which I don't, it would make sense. Still, I can't see Ben Wallace in the Suns offense.

 

[cly2tw]

No, Nash won't get success right away. He didn't get success in Dallas with a MUCH more talented roster.

But, he improved a lot by now, not to mention he'd 3/5 of Suns starting lineup with him. Odom is better than Diaw if healthy, can make a better 1-2 punch with Nash than Diaw did last season. Walton and Evans would be great complements to Nash too. Bynam/Kwami/Turiaf is the probly the only weak link. But Bynam will also benefit from Nash, stats wise. With some cheap FAs and #24, Lakers would be at least as good as Suns of last year.

 

[cly2tw]

The only team I could see us having a fair trade with is the Chicago Bulls.

Amare Stoudemire
Atlanta Pick

for

Ben Wallace
Tyrus Thomas
Luol Deng

Either you don't value Amare much, or you extremely overvalue Tyrus and Deng. I'd not even do Amare alone for that package. Tyrus is younger and bigger Marion or Josh Smith. Deng is a complementary player. Thanks, but NO, thanks.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No, Nash won't get success right away. He didn't get success in Dallas with a MUCH more talented roster.

he'd get more success than Kobe and a bunch of scrubs.

Nash
Bell
Marion
Odom
Diaw

Barbosa
Bynum
Turiaf

is basically a better version of the team that went to the WCF two years ago - I'd say that's more success than the patheticness the Lakers have been for the last three years and are staring at for the foreseeable future, no?

hell, it probably makes them the #3 seed with proper coaching. again, better than the drek the Lakers have been.

that being said, there's no way a Laker-Suns deal for Kobe EVER happens. But don't kid yourself D-Dog, WHEN Kobe gets traded, you ain't gonna be getting even money on the dollar. His latest temper tantrum and going public has already hamstrung the Lakers ability to deal.

 

[SO91]

Who was the last superstar that got even money on the dollar? That never works and I don't see that changing anytime soon. That goes for KG, Kobe (in the future), and any other disgruntled superstar

 

[Cheesebeef]

Who was the last superstar that got even money on the dollar? That never works and I don't see that changing anytime soon. That goes for KG, Kobe (in the future), and any other disgruntled superstar

i can't think of one, throughout history.

Barkley for Horny, Perry and Lang - give me a freaking break.

Shaq for Odom, Butler and Grant - yeah right.

T-Mac for Steve Francis and garbage.

The Grant Hill trade - I guess that's the only one I can think of - Grant Hill for Ben Wallace and whatever else Detroit got to help them build what they eventually became, but no one thought that trade was even money for Detroit at the time. Actually, Orlando just got KILLED on that deal.

There really aren't a whole lot of Superstar trades because of the above, but Kobe definitely could join that list as he has the market cornered on legendary pains in the ass - it's really fun to watch.

 

[azirish]

Who was the last superstar that got even money on the dollar? That never works and I don't see that changing anytime soon. That goes for KG, Kobe (in the future), and any other disgruntled superstar

Usually it is a disaster along the lines of the T-Mac trade from Orlando to Houston. The Magic took a bad situation and made it worse with their stupid decision to take the Rocket deal.

 

[SO91]

Damn Orlando did get killed in that trade. I had never thought about it, but those fans have had a rough ride in a short period of time. Shaq leaves, then they get stuck with Hill's bionic ankle, and then they give away T-Mac.

At least they got the FL sunshine and Disneyworld to make them feel better

 

[D-Dogg]

Screamin' A Smith on Sportscenter just said Shaq backed up Kobe's claim that Buss was going to move Shaq no matter what, and that what Kobe was saying is true.

Cats and dogs, living together. Pigs flying. People wearing parkas in hell...

 

[Covert Rain]

Who was the last superstar that got even money on the dollar? That never works and I don't see that changing anytime soon. That goes for KG, Kobe (in the future), and any other disgruntled superstar

Wow. Someone who finally gets it.

Michael Jordan wouldn't look like the next Michael Jordan on this team, either.

Disagree there. Kobe never was and never will be on the same level as Michael Jordon.

 

[pokerface]

I cant believe there is 8 pages of this Kobe trade....I wouldnt trade Amare straight up for that malcontent Kobe much less throw in Barbosa and the Atlanta pick!!!

How does Kobe make the Suns better minus Amare??

 

[dodie53]

diaw + LB + pike + junior + banks + atlanta pick 08 for kobe.
=)

 

[Ollie]

i can't think of one, throughout history.

Barkley for Horny, Perry and Lang - give me a freaking break.

Shaq for Odom, Butler and Grant - yeah right.

T-Mac for Steve Francis and garbage.

The Grant Hill trade - I guess that's the only one I can think of - Grant Hill for Ben Wallace and whatever else Detroit got to help them build what they eventually became, but no one thought that trade was even money for Detroit at the time. Actually, Orlando just got KILLED on that deal.

There really aren't a whole lot of Superstar trades because of the above, but Kobe definitely could join that list as he has the market cornered on legendary pains in the ass - it's really fun to watch.

The other guy in the Grant Hill trade was Chucky freakin' Atkins, IIRC.

Anyway I can't find a superstar traded for value either:

- the second Barkley trade for Cassell, Horry, Mark Bryant and Chucky Brown... hum

- Clyde Drexler and Tracy Murray for Otis Thorpe

- Guys like Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Oscar Robertson, Robert Parish or Pete Maravich to name a few, were traded for peanuts.

 

[azirish]

IMHO, forced deals such as the Barkley trades, the Shaq trade, and the T-Mac deal are different from many of the sign and trade deals.

Forced trades (with two or more years on the player's contract) require complex matching, so the buying team frequently has a lot of leverage.

Under most sign and trade deals, the selling team has an advantage because the buying team needs the cooperation of the selling team unless the buying team is well under the cap.

 

[Covert Rain]

IMHO, forced deals such as the Barkley trades, the Shaq trade, and the T-Mac deal are different from many of the sign and trade deals.

Forced trades (with two or more years on the player's contract) require complex matching, so the buying team frequently has a lot of leverage.

Under most sign and trade deals, the selling team has an advantage because the buying team needs the cooperation of the selling team unless the buying team is well under the cap.

Except some sign and trade deals are actually forced deals. If everybody knows the player is going and not resigning with the team then what choice does the team have if they want to get something in return?

That's the case here. KG wants out. The entire league knows that if MT don't trade him he walks for nothing. I would say that takes some leverage away from the MT. They will not get equal value for KG.

 

[azirish]

Except some sign and trade deals are actually forced deals. If everybody knows the player is going and not resigning with the team then what choice does the team have if they want to get something in return?

That's the case here. KG wants out. The entire league knows that if MT don't trade him he walks for nothing. I would say that takes some leverage away from the MT. They will not get equal value for KG.

My definition of a forced deal is where the player threatens to not play well, such as with Vince Carter in Toronto (another horribly one sided deal). Being stuck with a horribly expensive guy who doesn't want to play is a nightmare.

Losing a high priced unrestricted guy "without compensation" to free agency is not the end of the world. Often the cap relief is worth more than the player.

 

[D-Dogg]

Disagree there. Kobe never was and never will be on the same level as Michael Jordon.

Michael Jordan walks on water.

 

[Covert Rain]

My definition of a forced deal is where the player threatens to not play well, such as with Vince Carter in Toronto (another horribly one sided deal). Being stuck with a horribly expensive guy who doesn't want to play is a nightmare.

Losing a high priced unrestricted guy "without compensation" to free agency is not the end of the world. Often the cap relief is worth more than the player.

I agree. Your definition is a worse situation for a team to be in. However, it's not like your trading a player mid contract either. Everybody knows when a player is on the way out and that alone takes a bargaining chip away from the table. It really comes down to the MT. Do they want compensation before he leaves? If so, then they can expect to get equal value when everybody knows he is in the last year of his contract.

 

[Mainstreet]

Michael Jordan walks on water.

And Kobe doesn't... unless the Suns trade for him.

 

[D-Dogg]

And Kobe doesn't... unless the Suns trade for him.

lol.


MJ doesn't walk on water though, despite the glossy finish fans have put on him.

 

[Covert Rain]

lol.


MJ doesn't walk on water though, despite the glossy finish fans have put on him.

Why do you need to put a glossy finish on the leagues best player ever? Sounds like MJ envy to me.

 

[D-Dogg]

Why do you need to put a glossy finish on the leagues best player ever? Sounds like MJ envy to me.

Because he's no savior. He wouldn't have done JACK on this lakers team either...he played on bad teams too. Contrary to popular myth, the dude didn't win a championship every year he played.

 

[Covert Rain]

Because he's no savior. He wouldn't have done JACK on this lakers team either...he played on bad teams too. Contrary to popular myth, the dude didn't win a championship every year he played.

Who said anything about walking on water or being a savior? Who said he won every single year? MJ would have done more with this Laker team. Maybe not a title but he would have done more.