If you thought you were excited about Shaq before....

Arizona's Finest

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Sounds like somebody gets it.......:koolaid:


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/080207&sportCat=nba

Guess what? The Suns just made a fantastic trade

By Scoop Jackson
Page 2

The world has finally given up on Shaq.

Many feel the gimmick is up, there's no room left for the games, that he's not worth his weight or contract on anyone's roster anymore. "Damaged goods," is how one man described him. "Stupid," "Dumb," "Doesn't make any sense," and "What in the #@$% were they thinking?" are some of what's being said. If you've read ESPN.com or any blogs, listened to any sports talk radio or had time to peep the sports pages, you'd know that the Suns are catching heat for bringing Shaquille O'Neal into their almost perfect basketball universe.
The same kind of heat the Lakers caught when they gave him up and gave up on him almost four years ago.

But this time the world is looking at this wrong -- too caught up in "Shaq is no longer Shaq" to see how this plan in Phoenix can come together like something originated by Hannibal Smith. See, Shaq doesn't have to be Shaq for this to work. It's just a matter of if it's financially worth it to the Suns in the short run and if Shaq is willing to go along for the ride. If so, SHQ to PHX could be the next-to-best thing that ever happened to the Suns. It's all about how "the best team in the NBA to not have a championship" decides to play it.

Shaq doesn't fit into their style of play. Even if he's in the best shape of his life, he can't get up and down the floor with the Suns. He'll be worthless on offense, and he's going to destroy their flow. He's lazy. He's not going to work hard. He's injury-prone. He's not worth the money. They still won't win a championship with him there.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Sorta wrong. Maybe. Yes. Wrong. Wrong.

In Miami (and in L.A. and Orlando before) Shaq was Option 1 or 2, and over the past two seasons that became a problem. In Phoenix, he'll be Option 4, maybe 5. Mike D'Antoni should have no plans to depend on Shaq for any offense -- heavy emphasis on "depend." Not in the conventional way that everyone is thinking. The pressure on him to score 20 and grab 10 is finally over. Now he'll be the Big Decoy. And because he won't be double-teamed (remember he's still one of the best-passing post players in the game, and the Suns are one of the best outside-shooting teams in the League, hitting 38.7 percent on 3-pointers along with four players capable of dropping 20 to 30 every night), Big stands a chance of being more valuable by doing less in Phoenix.

The beauty is -- again, if the Suns play this right -- Shaq doesn't need to be a part of their transition game, he just needs to ignite it.

Rebound, turn, outlet! Rebound, turn, outlet! Precision. Execution. Buckets. Only six seconds off the shot clock. Back on D. Repeat. So unfair.

It will be so systematic that no one will be able to stop it once it gets perfected. And for those who think it's predictable and defenses will be able to shut it down, here's one to grow on: Whenever teams played the 49ers, they knew where, when and how Jerry Rice was going to get the ball. Yet for years, the best defenses in the game could not do anything to stop it. Nothing. The Niners won four rings with Rice, proving that predictability when perfected, works.

On defense, all Shaq needs to do is breathe, partially because Amare Stoudemire is so active. As long as Shaq doesn't move (and get in foul trouble, which my be a bigger problem on offense), no one'll get hurt. Remember Chief from "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"? That's Shaq all day on defense. Just play the paint, don't protect it.

There's more grief from the world about this. Grief of how "the Suns should have kept Shawn Marion," how he was "their best defensive player and best rebounder" and how "there's no player in the League like him." All true. But Marion wanted to go. He wanted out of everyone's shadow and the organization's underappreciation of him. And before the Suns ended up like the Grizzlies after trading Pau Gasol and getting "the twin of nothing" in return for the Matrix, they decided to get someone who, if you checked his history, guarantees your team will either get to the NBA Finals or win a ring.

Orlando? Finals in three years. L.A.? Finals in four years, three rings in eight. Miami? Finals and ring in his second season.

See, the Suns are outthinking all y'all. They know that one thing comes almost assured with this trade: They will win a title with Shaquille O'Neal in the lineup. It's just a matter of whether the one ring they get with him is worth the years they won't win while he's still there. The Suns have never won an NBA championship -- just like Miami before Shaq arrived. And if they're smart, they can take the one they'll win and milk it for 30 years -- just like Portland. The question is if $20 million per for the next two seasons is worth getting the one year of ring service they're going to get from Shaq.

There are so many other variables that play to the Suns' favor in this: a front line of Stoudemire, Shaq and Boris Diaw that no squad in the West can match -- not even the Lakers, when Andrew Bynum comes back with Gasol in the slot. Amare will be able to play his natural position, power forward, which causes matchup drama for any other team. Steve Nash is going to get open looks because of Shaq's presence and how coaches automatically forget about other players on the court because they are still afraid of getting killed by Shaq in the playoffs. Shaq's and Grant Hill's passing ability in the half-court will be more dangerous than Nash's, which will now increase the assist-per-game ratio for the team, which is the most difficult stat in the League to alter and one that correlates most to a team's ability to win. Big might come to town rejuvenated. He probably hears everything that's being said about him, which could send him back into 2005-06 mode. Just being gone from Miami with all of the hot mess surrounding his divorce will give him a new lease on his life. Robert Horry might think twice about running a Suns player into the scorer's table next time.

Variables that no one outside of Steve Kerr's office and Jerry Colangelo's bank account could possibly comprehend. The fact is, by attaining the services of Shaquille O'Neal and not expecting or needing much from a productivity standpoint in return, the Phoenix Suns may have made the most ingenious move in the NBA in the past 10 years. Only time will tell. It's just a matter of how wrong they -- and he -- really want to prove the world to be.

Scoop Jackson is a columnist for Page 2.
 

dreamcastrocks

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That's Scoop Jackson? Seriously?
 

Bayless2Budinger

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Variables that no one outside of Steve Kerr's office and Jerry Colangelo's bank account could possibly comprehend.

JC paid for this move? lol sucks for him.
 

bko32

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The beauty is -- again, if the Suns play this right -- Shaq doesn't need to be a part of their transition game, he just needs to ignite it.

This is a HUGE IF. Will Shaq buy into being the 4th or 5th option?? Has Shaq come to the realization that he isn't the best center in the league and that he is on the downside of his career?? Even IF he buys into this, Shaq has never been a great rebounder. Can he become one??

On defense, all Shaq needs to do is breathe, partially because Amare Stoudemire is so active. As long as Shaq doesn't move (and get in foul trouble, which my be a bigger problem on offense), no one'll get hurt. Remember Chief from "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"? That's Shaq all day on defense. Just play the paint, don't protect it.

This would be ideal for the Suns, but opposing teams won't allow Shaq just to stand near the paint all day long. They will pull him out to the perimeter with the high pick and roll. Even Kerr acknowledged that the Suns pick and roll defense has gotten weaker with Shaq.
 
OP
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Arizona's Finest

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LOL! Writer just lost all credibility after that.

Scoop Jackson is actually a very respected and reputable writer who knows more basketball than you forgot.

I would think the onus falls more on the editor being that Scoop has referenced Sarver numerous times prior.
 

jandaman

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Shaq's 310 pound 7'1 frame... and good hands... you cant teach that.... nor no one in the league can push that out of the key.... Suns inability to keep opponents off the offensive rebounds... just got a huge boost.... me think..

thats a huge positive already..

and Diaw just needs to up his stats to 10/7/5 and it should make up for Marion.... well sorta... Hill too.
 

bigfoot

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Scoop Jackson is actually a very respected and reputable writer who knows more basketball than you forgot.

Oh, I have no doubt. I claim no basketball knowledge here at all.
Just thought it was mistake that should have been caught, especially since it's in the most powerful part - 'thesis paragraph' if you will - of that article.
 

JCSunsfan

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I love Kerr's response to the "too many ifs" question.

"When talking about a championship. We had more 'ifs' before this trade, than we do after it."
 

The_Matrix

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Even IF he buys into this, Shaq has never been a great rebounder. Can he become one??

From NBA.com
14-year NBA career… has averaged 26.3 points, 11.8 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 2.53 blocks, 0.66 steals and 37.0 minutes

among active players he ranks first in points, field goals made, field goal percentage, free throws made, free throws attempted and offensive rebounds, second in scoring average, defensive rebounds, total rebounds, blocked shots and field goals attempted...

…has grabbed double-figure rebounds on 664 occasions (70.6 percent of his games), including 35 games with 20-or-more rebounds… his longest streak of consecutive games grabbing double-figure rebounds is 18 and was accomplished twice...
__________________________________________

The sentence "Shaq has never been a great rebounder" is probably one of the most idiotic basketball related sentences you could possibly write or say. Can anybody think of something more foolish?

This would be ideal for the Suns, but opposing teams won't allow Shaq just to stand near the paint all day long. They will pull him out to the perimeter with the high pick and roll. Even Kerr acknowledged that the Suns pick and roll defense has gotten weaker with Shaq.

I'm excited to see opposing centers setting picks 15 feet from the basket. I'm excited to see centers in the West like Bynum and Oberto and Dampier try to catch a pass in traffic and roll to the basket. They'll find out it's not as easy as Amare makes it look.
 

devilalum

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Variables that no one outside of Steve Kerr's office and Jerry Colangelo's bank account could possibly comprehend.

:confused:
 

devilalum

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Another thing about having SHaq that I haven't heard anybody say is how he will effect our team rebounding.

(Excuse me if I missed it. I didn't have time to read all of the 5,000 new Shaq threads)

Everybody has been talking about how the Suns will suffer in rebounding because Marion averages a little more than Shaq. I think this is wrong. Shaq may not get any more rebounds than he did in Miami but his presence will improve team rebounding. Just having his huge body will prevent so many of those opponent volleyball exhibitions we've seen all season and his blocking out will enable everybody to else pull down more rebounds.

Even if you look at last nights game. We lost our top rebounder but we out-rebounded the Hornets even without Shaq.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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Even if you look at last nights game. We lost our top rebounder but we out-rebounded the Hornets even without Shaq.
Misleading statistic considering New Orleans...

1. was without one of the best rebounders in the NBA in Tyson Chandler
2. attempted and missed twenty more shots than we did
3. had 15 offensive rebounds

And after all this we only outrebounded them by merely two boards.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Even if you look at last nights game. We lost our top rebounder but we out-rebounded the Hornets even without Shaq.

So Marion was responsible for our poor rebounding.... brilliant! semi:sarcasm:
 

Covert Rain

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Misleading statistic considering New Orleans...

1. was without one of the best rebounders in the NBA in Tyson Chandler
2. attempted and missed twenty more shots than we did
3. had 15 offensive rebounds

And after all this we only outrebounded them by merely two boards.

If Marion was playing last night we would have probably outrebounded them by 10 or more.
 

nashman

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We outboarded them period, tyson or no tyson, the still had a bunch of big ass guys in their grabbing boards. And we out rebounded them without Marion and no Shaq, they played hard and I think we will continue to see this as the chemistry seems to be better already.
 

ambchang_

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Shaq probably made the Suns tougher to guard by setting Amare free from the blocks, and opening up the shooters even more than before. One little issue is if Shaq was camping in the low post, will it take up space for Nash to drive?
On defense, it would probably be a disaster. Shaq can't defend the pick and roll, not even in his prime. He was a pretty good help defender in the blocks, and that could help Amare out, but his 1-1 defense these days is atrocious. He is NOT the interior defender that the Suns need. He fouls at a higher rate than Amare, and now that he has to cover the porous perimeter defense of the Suns, I would only figure that his foul rate would be even higher.
People talk about Shaq's rebounding and initiating the fast break, but the Matrix actually rebounds at a higher rate than Shaq this season, despite sharing the front court with Amare. Plus Shaq can't send outlet passes as quickly as Marion could (and then race upcourt to finish it).
This looks like the Suns getting better on offense (playoffs offense), but considerably weaker on defense, we will have to see ho this plays out.
 

Louis

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I'll add this Eddie Johnson write up to the Scoop article...

Why Phoenix made the deal for Shaq

February 7, 2008 @ 9:17 am · Filed under Dallas Mavericks, San Antonio Spurs, Phoenix Suns, Los Angeles Lakers, Shawn Marion, Shaquille O'Neal, Pau Gasol

A few weeks ago I heard about a potential deal the Suns might be involved in, but I brushed it off because around this time of year we hear all kinds of rumors. Then when the Lakers acquired Pau Gasol, my mind started to wonder and mainly because there are two teams that the Suns view as huge hurdles to the finals: the Lakers and the Spurs.

I again started to worry because it meant more Shawn Marion trade rumors and one more round of those rumors could really destroy any progress the Suns made since the Garnett discussions last summer with regards to the Matrix.

Well, here we are again and this time it’s a done deal.

Let’s get one thing straight before I talk about the value of this trade and give my five reasons why the Suns had to make a deal for Shaq and my five reasons why it could work… Shawn Marion is one the best people and players I have ever had the pleasure of watching and the Miami Heat will find out what working hard for 48 minutes is all about when the Matrix arrives in South Beach.

Marion leaves as one of the most consistent and popular Sun players ever and he will definitely be a candidate for the Suns Ring of Honor when he retires. Shawn is the best combination rebounder and defender in this league since Dennis Rodman and the Suns will have to find a combination of players to replace what Marion brought to the table every night in those hustle categories.

I also know Shawn well enough to say that he will indeed miss Phoenix, but he understands that being traded virtually head up for the most dominant player that has probably played is nothing to be embarrassed about.

Although the Matrix factor will be missed, the Suns had to do something. Yes, they have the best record in the Western Conference. But something was not right. The dominance that we were used to see was not there on a consistent basis. We did not see the blowout games or the 20 to 4 runs that this team has spoiled us with over the last three years. The games seemed to be a grind and it wore on the fans and critics and caused us to think that maybe the Suns were becoming vulnerable. That, combined with the improvement of the Hornets, Nuggets, Trail Blazers and Warriors at the bottom of the pack, made a trip to the Finals look hazy and difficult.

So we also must assume the Suns front office and coaching staff had some of the same anxiety because they are extremely giddy at having the opportunity to put Shaq in a Suns uniform.

Here are five reasons why the Suns had to make this move for Shaquille O’Neal:

Steve Nash’s window of opportunity is closing

As each year passes, the Suns cannot expect Nash to continue to create offensively for everyone. Pushing the ball on the fast break is one thing, but having to run the two-man game 40 possessions every night against physical defenses will eventually take its toll. Nash deserves a chance to add a title to his two MVP trophies.

Spurs have never won back-to-back championships

The last time this scenario came to bear, the Dallas Mavericks used a physical combination of Erick Dampier and DeSagana Diop to wear down the Amare-less Suns to move on to the Finals against Shaq and the Heat. The Spurs have showed signs of wear and tear and the Suns do not want to miss out again on this opportunity.

Lakers add Pau Gasol factor

The Lakers could have said we traded for Pau Gasol on Halloween because it scared everyone in the Western Conference. I don’t even play anymore and it scared me. Imagine the frontline of Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum and Gasol. Then combine it with the athleticism and shooting of Kobe Bryant and it’s obvious how every team is saying, “Why is Phil Jackson so darn lucky and why can’t he suffer for long?”

Throw in Trevor Ariza, Jordan Farmar, Derek Fisher and Ronny Turiaf. The Lakers look like a championship team this year.

Suns are 2-6 against the top teams in the West

The Suns have beaten the Lakers without Bynum and they beat the Spurs early in the season. They are 0-2 against the Hornets, lost twice to the Lakers with Bynum and got beaten by the Mavericks. The major reason for the losses has been an inability to defend the paint and the lack of defensive rebounding. Proof lays in the stats of the teams interior players when they play the Suns. Bynum averages 21 and 12. Duncan averages 27 and 17. Chandler averages 15 and 15. All above their season averages. And if you want to look further, Al Jefferson, who plays on arguably the worst team in the league, averages 32 and 16 in two Timberwolves wins this season against the Suns.

Combine this with the foul trouble of the Suns best offensive player, Amare Stoudemire, and we see why the Suns chose to pursue Shaq.

The Portland Trail Blazers and the Greg Oden factor

The Blazers are the team of the future. If Greg Oden lives up to his promise and LaMarcus Aldridge and All-Star Brandon Roy continue to grow, the Suns will have another couple of big bodies to deal with over the next few years.

So now that I have given you why the Suns made the move, here are five reasons why it could work:

First let me say this… I have heard the comment about Shaq is a shell of himself so on and so forth. Give me a break. I predicted the Heat would struggle this year and it was not because of Shaq. It was because of the players Pat Riley surrounded him with. Riley basically signed and drafted players that can’t throw the ball into the post and most importantly did not strike fear in teams with their jump shooting ability. This can ruin any big man that is a threat to post up and be productive in this league, including one of the most dominant ever.

So it’s absurd to judge Shaq on what he has done this year. He deserves to be judged on what he can bring to the Suns.

Suns rise immediately to one of the most physical teams

Shaquille O’Neal is a wall. The most overhyped stat is blocked shot. What about deterrence and altering decisions with the ball? The Suns are at the top of the league in blocked shots, but are viewed as a weak defensive team. The reason they blocked shots is because they got a ton of opportunities. Now that statistic will go down, but the opposition’s in-the-paint scoring will too. That means teams will take more jump shots and the Suns are better at that game than anyone in the league and now they also have the interior scoring of Amare and Shaq to boot.

The Suns are the worst defensive rebounding team in the league because they could not command space. Shaq will allow Amare, Grant Hill, Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, etcetera, to be better rebounders because he will eat up space and punish offensive rebounders with long outlet passes – thus allowing Nash and Leandro Barbosa to leak out.

Finally, Shaq will protect Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire from physical play. Players are physically afraid of him and he will punish you if you take shots at his teammates. I would love to see Robert Horry throw Nash to the floor with Shaq around to punish Parker or Duncan.

Three players that command serious defensive attention

Shaq, Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire will cause teams to change their defensive philosophy during the course of the game, which is extremely difficult to do.

Case in point. How will teams defend the Suns when they run the high pick-and-roll with Amare? Normally teams will rotate the weak side big defender over to challenge him. Well, if that occurs you have Shaq on the weak block flashing in for a pass from Nash or a guard trying to block him out. If teams get silly enough to rotate a small player to Amare, then they allow Raja Bell or Leandro Barbosa to have wide open three-point shots on the weak side.

Mike D’Antoni can use his full playbook now with the back-to-the-basket dominance of Shaq.

Improve the running game

The biggest fallacy about the Suns and their running game is that Shaq will slow them down. I believe it will speed them up and give them more opportunities to run. I have already talked about possessions and the physicality Shaq brings to the Suns.

Now couple that with better confidence with your defensive rebounding – thus allowing Nash, Barbosa, Hill and Bell to run out earlier. The Suns could be even more potent. Also throw in Amare running more because of not having to fight and box out big centers.

I never saw Kareem Abdul-Jabbar running the lanes for the Lakers, but I did see him igniting it with rebounding and long outlet passes, and then coming down on the block with commanding presence.

Amare will become more dominant

Because of the matchup nightmare Shaq would bring, Amare Stoudemire will benefit the most.

Foul trouble should decrease and scoring and rebounding should go up. Also watch for his weak side defense to produce more blocked shots and steals. We have never seen what Shaq could do with a young dominant power forward beside him and he has one of the best in Stoudemire, who should be ecstatic at the chance to stop battling centers every night.

Nash can play without dominating ball

This might be the most important cause of the Shaq trade and here is why.

D’Antoni would love to keep Nash on the floor and use him off the ball, but he knows the offense would stall. The addition of Shaq and his great passing out of the post will allow the NBA’s best three-point shooter to spot up for periods during the game and punish defenses for doubling.

Case in point. Grant Hill throws it in to Shaq with Nash and either Barbosa or Bell on the weak side and Amare on the elbow waiting for the short jumpshot or the run to the basket if they double off of him.

This will destroy any defense and if Shaq stays healthy the Suns will be the team to beat come playoff time.


http://hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/...-deal-for-shaq/
 

nowagimp

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This is why I love Edie Johnson as a color guy. He nails all those points:

shaq makes amare better by taking over his more physical duties

shaq will get better looks for the 3 pt shooters, better spacing

shaq will reduce Nashs physical work load

shaq makes the suns a much more physical team with better D in the paint. Not many opponsnts will come in and throw elbows around clearing space with the diesel there.

shaq makes the suns a better running team because opponents will shoot more jumpers and get less offensive rebounds.

I guess Eddie just knows BBall, which is no suprise since he played for quite a while in the NBA. He also is a good communicator, he's very effective in explaining strategies clearly and simply. Now if only the suns trainers can rejuvenate the diesel for another run or two.
 

BillsCarnage

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Another thing about having SHaq that I haven't heard anybody say is how he will effect our team rebounding.

Even if you look at last nights game. We lost our top rebounder but we out-rebounded the Hornets even without Shaq.

Once/If Shaq gets integrated into the team I expect the opponent offensive rebounds and Suns blocks to be cut in half.

With offensive rebounds, the other team just needed to box out Amare and they only had to go up against Marion (if he was in the paint) who could sky for a rebound. No one else on the Suns has the ability get above the rim for a rebound.

Even if Shaq can't jump his 7'1" frame and monkey arms should grab some rebounds and block ppl out. Then add Amare's ability to jump it should really help the Suns.

Another thing is blocks. As EJ said, the Suns get so many blocks because ppl are in the paint so much. Again, Shaq should deter quite a bit of that.
 

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