Igor Kokoskov will be Suns new head coach

[pokerface]

I have not been as high on Doncic as some others but when he is overly criticized, I find myself trying to add some balance to the discussion.

The scouting services have him rated highly.

I have liked Ayton and Bagley going 1-2 in the draft for a long time, however, I think we need to keep an open mind. Have to wonder if other discussion boards are this critical of him.

Realgm is very high on Doncic. A lot of them want him #1. Even I'm not that crazy...or brilliant

 

[pokerface]

On Reddit most people seem to be in the Ayton at #1 camp but Doncic is viewed as a nice consolation prize. Bagley gets hyped more for being from Arizona than his play, from what I've seen, but most seem to think the draft goes Ayton, Doncic, Bagley. Young gets a lot of hype there also but he's in a tier below the others but ahead of Porter and Bamba. I don't recall seeing much about Bamba there at all really. Talk of Porter is usually about his injuries, and more of a skeptical outlook. I think that will change when the draft lottery takes place.

It's a little odd because there is definitely more talk of the Suns getting screwed in the lottery and falling to #4 there than there is here but there is also more talk of the Suns getting the #1 pick there. Not much about the Suns landing #2 or #3, either they'll hit big or get hit hard in the lottery.

#3 with Bagley wouldn't blow at all....but would we take a chance and pick Young ?

Probably not

 

[Mainstreet]

On Reddit most people seem to be in the Ayton at #1 camp but Doncic is viewed as a nice consolation prize. Bagley gets hyped more for being from Arizona than his play, from what I've seen, but most seem to think the draft goes Ayton, Doncic, Bagley. Young gets a lot of hype there also but he's in a tier below the others but ahead of Porter and Bamba. I don't recall seeing much about Bamba there at all really. Talk of Porter is usually about his injuries, and more of a skeptical outlook. I think that will change when the draft lottery takes place.

It's a little odd because there is definitely more talk of the Suns getting screwed in the lottery and falling to #4 there than there is here but there is also more talk of the Suns getting the #1 pick there. Not much about the Suns landing #2 or #3, either they'll hit big or get hit hard in the lottery.

This is interesting. It seems beyond Ayton there are a lot of mixed opinions on how picks 2-4 go. I definitely want the Suns to get the #1 pick because Ayton will be there plus a myriad of trade down options. However, I don't think it is doom and gloom if the Suns pick #4... just a lot of disappointed Suns fans.

 

[Mainstreet]

Realgm is very high on Doncic. A lot of them want him #1. Even I'm not that crazy...or brilliant

There are mocks where Doncic goes #1. I have him trouble putting him there because I really want Ayton. However, who is to say who is right and who is wrong at this point.

A part of me really wants Young as well but not that early.

 

[pokerface]

There are mocks where Doncic goes #1. I have him trouble putting him there because I really want Ayton. However, who is to say who is right and who is wrong at this point.

A part of me really wants Young as well but not that early.

With Ayton at #1 you just have to take him. His floor makes him the safest pick. His ceiling could be spectacular.

 

[Mainstreet]

With Ayton at #1 you just have to take him. His floor makes him the safest pick. His ceiling could be spectacular.

You state it well. The other players floors may not be this high making him the safe pick although not necessarily the best pick. I don't think it is wise to gamble with the first pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

#3 with Young wouldn't blow at all....but would we take a chance and pick Bagley?

Hopefully not.

FTFY. Okay, maybe I broke it for ya.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You state it well. The other players floors may not be this high making him the safe pick although not necessarily the best pick. I don't think it is wise to gamble with the first pick.

I think Young's floor is every bit as high as Ayton's but scarcity makes Deandre the obvious first choice.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I have liked Ayton and Bagley going 1-2 in the draft for a long time, however, I think we need to keep an open mind. Have to wonder if other discussion boards are this critical of him.

Phxsuns.net did a poll recently on who each poster would pick if the Suns got the #1 pick...

Small sample size (40 votes) but Doncic was actually the choice for #1 with 60% of the votes.

This was before the Kokoskov hiring.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Young's floor is every bit as high as Ayton's but scarcity makes Deandre the obvious first choice.

It's back to bigs over smalls if everything else is equal. However, the kicker is we don't know for sure until they play in the NBA for a number of years.

Then there are players like Donovan Mitchell.

 

[Mainstreet]

Phxsuns.net did a poll recently on who each poster would pick if the Suns got the #1 pick...

Small sample size (40 votes) but Doncic was actually the choice for #1 with 60% of the votes.

This was before the Kokoskov hiring.

Quite interesting. Who would think reading our forum.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Young's floor is every bit as high as Ayton's but scarcity makes Deandre the obvious first choice.

I don’t think we are using the same definition of “floor.” I think there’s a realistic chance Young busts due to slight frame and average at best athleticism.

 

[Ronin]

scott bordow‏Verified account@sbordow 6s6 seconds ago
Got off the phone a few minutes ago with Suns' GM Ryan McDonough: He said report Phoenix offered 4-year contract to David Fizdale was "inaccurate." Didn't want to get into specifics.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don’t think we are using the same definition of “floor.” I think there’s a realistic chance Young busts due to slight frame and average at best athleticism.

See, I disagree. I think he has two defined NBA skills. He can flat-out shoot and pass. I don't think he will bust.

 

[Mainstreet]

There is an excellent article in The Stepien about Trae Young that breaks down his game and compares him to other successful players.

This is an extreme example, but it is representative of the trend in how defenses began to guard Young. Opponents realized that Oklahoma simply did not have the secondary creators to punish them for totally selling out on Young. Teams aggressively put their help defenders in the gaps on each wing, knowing that Oklahoma’s wings weren’t good enough shooters or creators to take advantage.

If teams did figure out how to stymie Young in a way that will also apply at the NBA-level, he is not all that great a prospect. Alternatively, if Young’s struggles were due to an unprecedented amount of defensive attention and a supporting cast ill-equipped to both take advantage of that attention and put Young in positions to succeed, there is significantly more room for optimism. Based on my watching of Oklahoma, I lean towards the latter explanation.

Exactly where to rank him comes down to how likely his upside is, how acceptable his defense could be, and how much to weigh upside in the draft. Those are all difficult questions. For me, I believe in Trae Young when I watch him play. I see someone with rare basketball instincts and vision, superlative range, and the quicks and shake to create space for himself.

I must say after reading the article which ended on a favorable note for Young, I came away thinking there is only a small window for Young to fit through to be a highly successful player. His lack of height and athleticism doesn't help.

https://www.the stepien.com/2018/05/03/trying-figure-trae-young/

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t think we are using the same definition of “floor.” I think there’s a realistic chance Young busts due to slight frame and average at best athleticism.

We're probably using the same definition, just differing opinions on Young. I think he's a very high level can't miss prospect if his body holds up.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

L

See, I disagree. I think he has two defined NBA skills. He can flat-out shoot and pass. I don't think he will bust.

he can shoot and pass. But if his size and limited athleticism translates into not being able to get his shot off he becomes Kendall Marshall in effectiveness. When I say “floor” it’s talking a players projected worst case scenario. I think Young’s worst case scenario is bust.

 

[JCSunsfan]

See, I disagree. I think he has two defined NBA skills. He can flat-out shoot and pass. I don't think he will bust.

And I think he has three. He is an excellent ball handler. Maybe you kind of combine that with passing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And I think he has three. He is an excellent ball handler. Maybe you kind of combine that with passing.

I don’t classify his ballhandling as “excellent.” I reserve that for someone like curry and he’s nowhere near Curry’s class as a ball handler.

 

[AzStevenCal]

L

he can shoot and pass. But if his size and limited athleticism translates into not being able to get his shot off he becomes Kendall Marshall in effectiveness. When I say “floor” it’s talking a players projected worst case scenario. I think Young’s worst case scenario is bust.

I was anti-Marshall as a college player, I thought it was obvious that he wouldn't be as effective in the NBA. To me, Young is the opposite. The spacing at the next level will up his game. His change of pace and half court smarts rivals Steve Nash and I honestly don't see how he can be anything but a star.

I worry a little about his shot selection and the fact he needs a little more time or clearance to get his shot off but he is so creative with the ball and his body. I would put his absolute floor at peak Dragic.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I was anti-Marshall as a college player, I thought it was obvious that he wouldn't be as effective in the NBA. To me, Young is the opposite. The spacing at the next level will up his game. His change of pace and half court smarts rivals Steve Nash and I honestly don't see how he can be anything but a star.

I worry a little about his shot selection and the fact he needs a little more time or clearance to get his shot off but he is so creative with the ball and his body. I would put his absolute floor at peak Dragic.

I tend to agree, but his D will be hard to hide. I think Dragic is a better defender by a lot.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t classify his ballhandling as “excellent.” I reserve that for someone like curry and he’s nowhere near Curry’s class as a ball handler.

He's got excellent handles for a Freshman in college but it's unlikely he'll reach Curry level. He can shoot, pass and see the court at NBA stardom level so I'd still agree he has 3 NBA skills in his pocket already.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was anti-Marshall as a college player, I thought it was obvious that he wouldn't be as effective in the NBA. To me, Young is the opposite. The spacing at the next level will up his game. His change of pace and half court smarts rivals Steve Nash and I honestly don't see how he can be anything but a star.

I worry a little about his shot selection and the fact he needs a little more time or clearance to get his shot off but he is so creative with the ball and his body. I would put his absolute floor at peak Dragic.

Marshall was a head scratcher for sure.

If I knew good NBA defenders could not shut down Young, any questions I have about him would be alleviated.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I tend to agree, but his D will be hard to hide. I think Dragic is a better defender by a lot.

Yeah, defense is a concern but I think he's a stronger all around offensive weapon than Goran so I'd still put him at or above Dragic's level.

Trae has quick hands a strong lower body. He needs to add some upper body strength and he needs to have his NBA time dependent on giving effort on D. Most of his problems on defense are lack of effort and that's understandable to a certain extent given his offensive responsibilities at Oklahoma.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Marshall was a head scratcher for sure.

If I knew good NBA defenders could not shut down Young, any questions I have about him would be alleviated.

I do not believe they can. He is slippery. He is also much faster and a much better shooter than Marshall. Young might not be the fastest guard in the league, but he is fast. Marshall was slow footed.