Interesting Comment

[BritCard]

So you take what you like, pass on the rest and then imply that others are blind or biased.

Too funny!

Where exactly did I do that?

 

[GuernseyCard]

Where exactly did I do that?

On the sack totals!

 

[Chopper0080]

LTs 100% better than DJ Humphries

Taylor Lewan
Jake Matthews
Joe Staley
Trent Williams
Terron Armstead
Tyron Smith
David Bakhtiari
Anthony Castonzo
Alejandro Villanueva
Ronnie Stanley
Laremy Tunsil
Eric Fisher

LTs where there could be an argument
Russell Okung
Duane Brown
Andrew Whitworth
Charles Leno Jr.
Jason Peters
Taylor Decker
Donovan Smith

Ultimately, this means that DJ in the range of the 13th to 25th best LT in football at 26 years old. There are a lot of dudes on the above list that are in their 30s or could possibly retire. That changes things. Calling DJ an average LT in the NFL seems more than fair.

 

[Chopper0080]

and before anyone gets crazy about that list, if the margins are that close, it probably comes down to the QB and offensive scheme more than it does to the talent of the player.

Example: None of us on this board have enough info to actually quantify the difference between Charles Leno Jr and DJ Humphries. The same can be said for Donovan Smith and 34 year old Duane Brown.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

It's all health with DJ. Why move on from him, if he's healthy, when he's now showing the promise that earned him a first round grade. I seriously doubt he's going regress and will likely keep getting better. Of course, it's all on how his knees check out.

 

[kerouac9]

Every NFL team and 60 FBS teams must just pay for thier data for fun I guess. Anyone here getting paid for thier analytics data? No?

The constant railing against PFF by some fans baffles me. If its good enough for every team including the Pats it's good enough for me.

We've gone over this before. Teams pay PFF for the game charting data that they'd usually pay a QC assistant to do. Those teams do not care about PFF's grades, which everyone believes is marketing nonsense.

 

[Solar7]

Yes this. I’m good with drafting a young talented tackle. I’m not good with relying on him outta the gate. And I know Solar will be up in arms about a first round pick not starting, but there’s nothing wrong with him having to wrest the position away from a vet.

I'm not gonna freak out about it, but if we drafted a guy in the top 8 and he didn't beat out Justin Murray, I'd be really concerned. If we drafted a young guy and Marcus Gilbert was playing ahead of him to start, on a one-year deal? No biggie, everyone needs time to grow.

Of course, this all depends on what we fill before the draft. If we don't have a starting OLB, ILB, & DE, and we decide we're gonna sit our first rounder to learn for a year, I'd be up in arms.

 

[Krangodnzr]

And if we were contemplating giving Murray 50m+ I'd say that was dumb also.

The difference is Murray was thrown in the deep end and did significantly better than expected. Hump in his 4th year has starter and first injury free was rank average.

He's just not good. Has never been good and likely never will be.

If you don't want to roll with Hump we can pick up Cordy Glenn for 9.5m or Riley Reiff for 10.9m. Both better than Hump without long term commitments.

Reiff is dog poo. Ask any Vikings fan. Just the idea that one team moved on from him in an OL thirsty league and another might as well.

New flash, but if you can get a LT in free agency, he is probably doo-doo.

Cordy Glenn had had quite a few injuries and you would pay him only $4million less? And he is 30.

The problem with rating offensive lineman singularly, is that their play is completely reliant on scheme, the other linemen around them, tight ends, and RBs.

I've bee sitting back and reading your comment that if you believe PFF, then the OL only gave up 13 sacks. You do realize that RBs and TEs can give up sacks? QBs can hold the ball too long or run out of the pocket and give up sacks?

 

[BritCard]

Reiff is dog ****. Ask any Vikings fan. Just the idea that one team moved on from him in an OL thirsty league and another might as well.

New flash, but if you can get a LT in free agency, he is probably doo-doo.

Cordy Glenn had had quite a few injuries and you would pay him only $4million less? And he is 30.

The problem with rating offensive lineman singularly, is that their play is completely reliant on scheme, the other linemen around them, tight ends, and RBs.

I've bee sitting back and reading your comment that if you believe PFF, then the OL only gave up 13 sacks. You do realize that RBs and TEs can give up sacks? QBs can hold the ball too long or run out of the pocket and give up sacks?

I do realise other players can give up sacks. But not 75% of them. Can you really tell me we would have only had 13 sacks if not for TEs and Kyler?

You think Riley Reiff is dog poo because Vikings fans moan about him. News flash. Cards fans have spent 4 years moaning about Hump!

Riley Reiff has had a higher PFF grade than Hump every year of Humps career and started considerably more games. Most years his grade is much higher.

If Reiff is dog poo what's Hump?

 

[Veer]

Almost every OT in the draft can be considered raw compared to other positions. There may be some very sound interior OL prospects, but not at a tough position like OT, let alone LT. Andrew Thomas is far ahead of DJ Humphries as a rookie, much more sound technically than Humphries was. Andrew Thomas is a no-brainer top 10 pick who seems to slide a bit in pundit rankings because quite a few flashy OTs have entered the discussion (Wirfs, Becton). Humphries had 1st round talent, but was never even close to being selected in the 1st half of round one.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

I feel there is a pretty good shot the Cards skip OL in the first round. I know they weren't great, but the O-line came together and played better. We need to see some continuity to really evaluate them. Also, i saw some really good run blocking from this unit. Look how devastating the Niners have been with the run game in the playoffs. There were a couple games this year that

I like Thomas and Wirfs -- I think they are both 1st round talents. That being said, I don't think either would have the impact that Isiah Simmons, Derrick Brown or Jeff Okudah would have on defense. I also like Jeudy and Lamb -- I think they both will be a WR1. Still I am picking defense in the First Round if any of those three are there.

 

[Harry]

We can say this every year, but when do we actually pull the trigger on someone?

I suppose this is all in context of what we do with Humphries and if he's franchise tagged, but I'm not sure why an older Kyler Murray is better at having to use his feet to escape the pressure created by an inexperienced tackle than a younger one is.

Maybe I need to go back and watch the season broken down by snap, and my overall feeling is wrong, but it always seemed to me like Kyler was spooked by the pressure, his mechanics got sloppy, and therefore the offense could never really get into a rhythm, and none of that was his fault.

Older is better because hopefully he’ll get better at assessing from where the pressure will come. Also distinguishing which movements are real blitzes and which are fakes.

 

[Harry]

Come on dude. PFF are trained professionals trusted by the football world. From GMs to draft analysts.

Are they perfect? No. But they are far, far better than any of us.

If Kyler trusted his LT he wouldn't spend half his time running around and loading 22 sacks on himself and the other half throwing instant 5 yard passes.

If you search back through my earlier posts you will see the PFF modality. It’s very subjective. Some GMs like it, other think it’s crude. IMO it’s much like WAR was in baseball especially in its early years. It’s one of many tools that provide insight but I think it’s a mistake to get overly reliant upon it.

 

[BritCard]

If you search back through my earlier posts you will see the PFF modality. It’s very subjective. Some GMs like it, other think it’s crude. IMO it’s much like WAR was in baseball especially in its early years. It’s one of many tools that provide insight but I think it’s a mistake to get overly reliant upon it.

I agree but here's the thing. NFL teams have teams of scouts, analytics teams etc etc. PFF is just part of the picture.

For us, your average fan, PFF is by far the most accurate measure of player performance. There are others, ESPN, NGS, Football Outsiders etc but from an individual player perspective PFF is the most comprehensive.

They employ 300+ video analysts that watch and grade every player, every week. I have a very difficult time with someone saying "ignore those 300 pros, I've watched it and they are wrong. He passes the eye test".

I'll take the opinion 300+ experts and the successful, trusted business. They aren't always right but they are right much more than us armchair fans.

 

[BritCard]

Older is better because hopefully he’ll get better at assessing from where the pressure will come. Also distinguishing which movements are real blitzes and which are fakes.

He's been in the league 5 years now. Every year we say this is the year for Hump. If he can stay healthy he will kick on.

And then he stays healthy and its yet another year of same old Hump.

 

[Chopper0080]

Almost every OT in the draft can be considered raw compared to other positions. There may be some very sound interior OL prospects, but not at a tough position like OT, let alone LT. Andrew Thomas is far ahead of DJ Humphries as a rookie, much more sound technically than Humphries was. Andrew Thomas is a no-brainer top 10 pick who seems to slide a bit in pundit rankings because quite a few flashy OTs have entered the discussion (Wirfs, Becton). Humphries had 1st round talent, but was never even close to being selected in the 1st half of round one.

Personally, I trust Wirfs' transition to the NFL because of the school he came out of. I don't believe that ensures that he will be a star, but I do feel it signifies that he should be as prepared as college guys can be.

Notre Dame
Iowa
Wisconsin
North Carolina St (Bradbury, Will Richardson, Joe Thuney, JR Sweezy)
Oklahoma

Guys good enough to get drafted out of these schools tend to work out in the NFL. (I am sure there are others Miss St., Michigan,) but I have just done the digging on these schools.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I do realise other players can give up sacks. But not 75% of them. Can you really tell me we would have only had 13 sacks if not for TEs and Kyler?

You think Riley Reiff is dog **** because Vikings fans moan about him. News flash. Cards fans have spent 4 years moaning about Hump!

Riley Reiff has had a higher PFF grade than Hump every year of Humps career and started considerably more games. Most years his grade is much higher.

If Reiff is dog **** what's Hump?

LOL Humphries has a better Madden Rating, so HA, I win.

All kidding aside, I think you're downplaying the concept that if offensive linemen play with poor linemen around them, they tend not to do as well.

It's no wonder that Humphries starts playing pretty well when the line around him plays a little bit well.

 

[Krangodnzr]

LTs 100% better than DJ Humphries

Taylor Lewan
Jake Matthews
Joe Staley
Trent Williams
Terron Armstead
Tyron Smith
David Bakhtiari
Anthony Castonzo
Alejandro Villanueva
Ronnie Stanley
Laremy Tunsil
Eric Fisher

LTs where there could be an argument
Russell Okung
Duane Brown
Andrew Whitworth
Charles Leno Jr.
Jason Peters
Taylor Decker
Donovan Smith

Ultimately, this means that DJ in the range of the 13th to 25th best LT in football at 26 years old. There are a lot of dudes on the above list that are in their 30s or could possibly retire. That changes things. Calling DJ an average LT in the NFL seems more than fair.

Excellent breakdown. Totally agree.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I agree but here's the thing. NFL teams have teams of scouts, analytics teams etc etc. PFF is just part of the picture.

For us, your average fan, PFF is by far the most accurate measure of player performance. There are others, ESPN, NGS, Football Outsiders etc but from an individual player perspective PFF is the most comprehensive.

They employ 300+ video analysts that watch and grade every player, every week. I have a very difficult time with someone saying "ignore those 300 pros, I've watched it and they are wrong. He passes the eye test".

I'll take the opinion 300+ experts and the successful, trusted business. They aren't always right but they are right much more than us armchair fans.

Pros, experts?

There are more than a few on this site who do close review of tape and are every bit as capable of offering subjective grades, which is precisely what PFF does. Their charting is fine but teams are not depending on these self proclaimed experts and nor should you.

 

[GuernseyCard]

He's been in the league 5 years now. Every year we say this is the year for Hump. If he can stay healthy he will kick on.

And then he stays healthy and its yet another year of same old Hump.

Same old Hump?

What does that even mean?

He played 16 games and was consistent throughout.

What the f..... !!!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Same old Hump?

What does that even mean?

He played 16 games and was consistent throughout.

What the f..... !!!

I thought he was easily the Cardinals best lineman, and the others had their moments but werent consistent enough.

 

[Russ Smith]

After a rough start in his first live games Justin Murray was better than Hump. I'm pretty sure there are more games where Murray graded better than Hump than vice versa.

I don't get the Hump love. He's had one injury free average season in 5 years on the team. I don't know why anyone would want to sign that to a multi year top 5 money extension.

There isn't a thing about him that says he's a franchise LT. Unless you call consistently average play franchise-able, when he makes it onto the field.

If Hump was a free agent from the Broncos I guarantee everybody here is saying "Hell no, he's an injury prone bum" if rumors were around we wanted to sign him.

I pointed this out earlier in the year and it's kind of a backwards compliment but I think Hump really proved this year he gets it with respect to Kyler Murray and the Cards building around him. People complained all year about all the holding calls on Humphries, he had 5 on the season and we declined one of them. The reason I don't mind that is I think it was clear what he was doing, he understood in the long game it's more important to keep Murray upright and take a holding penalty than let him get hit trying to be penalty free. Yes that's a dumb thing it'd be better to just not get beaten AND not hold, but given the choice I was really happy to see him figure out sometimes you gotta protect your QB even if it means holding(and hope they don't call it).

Justin Murray didn't get called for a hold all year but he allowed 6 sacks, Humphries had 5 holds but only allowed 2 sacks.

 

[football karma]

Humphries, he had 5 on the season

fwiw: at least 2, and maybe 3 of the holding calls were on run plays -- and kinda cheap ones at that--- outside plays where he buried a DB and fell on top of him

 

[Russ Smith]

I agree but here's the thing. NFL teams have teams of scouts, analytics teams etc etc. PFF is just part of the picture.

For us, your average fan, PFF is by far the most accurate measure of player performance. There are others, ESPN, NGS, Football Outsiders etc but from an individual player perspective PFF is the most comprehensive.

They employ 300+ video analysts that watch and grade every player, every week. I have a very difficult time with someone saying "ignore those 300 pros, I've watched it and they are wrong. He passes the eye test".

I'll take the opinion 300+ experts and the successful, trusted business. They aren't always right but they are right much more than us armchair fans.

They have their place yes but don't forget PFF played a large role in us taking Andy Isabella in the 2nd round, they are not infallible.

 

[kerouac9]

this is a good list. Thought I'd add the ages of the players (Per OvertheCap).

LTs 100% better than DJ Humphries

Taylor Lewan - 29
Jake Matthews - 28
Joe Staley - 36
Trent Williams - 32
Terron Armstead - 29
Tyron Smith - 30
David Bakhtiari - 29
Anthony Castonzo - 32
Alejandro Villanueva - 32
Ronnie Stanley - 26
Laremy Tunsil - 26
Eric Fisher - 29

LTs where there could be an argument
Russell Okung - 32
Duane Brown - 35
Andrew Whitworth - 39(!)
Charles Leno Jr. - 29
Jason Peters - 38
Taylor Decker - 26
Donovan Smith - 27

Ultimately, this means that DJ in the range of the 13th to 25th best LT in football at 26 years old. There are a lot of dudes on the above list that are in their 30s or could possibly retire. That changes things. Calling DJ an average LT in the NFL seems more than fair.

They've said this a couple times on the Big Red Rage this year, but this was the first season of DJ Humphries' pro career where he wasn't younger than at least one rookie. I don't really expect Humphries to make a quantum leap, but I also expect him to have some time to be fine and maybe improve a little more.