Is Brenly braindead?

[mark1]

Why does he keep trotting out a 146 hitter in the 3 hole? Junior is in a terrible slump yet Brenly insists Junior bat third. Junior is the worst hitter on the team right now, why put added pressure on him? Move him down to the 8 hole until he comes out of it (actually I'd start Baerga) for awhile. Heck, Overbay is hitting 323 with two home runs, hit him 3 right now.

GO GET A HITTER!

 

[BC867]

I've been pushing for Junior to be put back to 2nd in the order for some time. It's what led to him being an All Star last season.

And I've been a supporter of Bob Brenly since before he was chosen as Manager.

But I just can't understand why, when we did so well on Sunday, with a 1-2-3 of Counsell, Spivey, and Gonzo (just as early last season) . . . Brenly abandoned it on Monday.

"Hey, this worked well. I better not use it again!" Maybe not brain-dead . . . but certainly in a coma!

Even if you disagree with the concept of Spivey batting second, if it works . . . !

P.S.: I wouldn't bat Overbay 3rd for quite awhile. Putting a promising rookie into the pressure spot too early could result in the Travis Lee syndrome.

 

[AZZenny]

OH! That was a rhetorical question! heh heh
He certainly acts like it sometimes. To bring in Randolph at that point, a man with notoriously erratic control...even if Myers usually gets hit by Walker, that was too critical a point to give up a HR, and Myers is going to be craftier about it than Randolph, who is struggling... And BB's insistence on keeping Womack and Spivey IN the lineup, much less top of the order... I think they need to consider sending Junior to Tucson, get him in the hands of a different hitting coach for awhile, if this goes too much longer.

 

[moviegeekjn]

Originally posted by AZZenny
I think they need to consider sending Junior to Tucson, get him in the hands of a different hitting coach for awhile, if this goes too much longer.

THERE'S a concept worth considering since it doesn't look like the D'backs are going to make a batting coach switch in the immediate future.

Just started reading Whitey Herzog's latest book, You're Missin' a Great Game where early in the book he describes his early frustrations with Willie Wilson (as illustrative of some of the horses**t mentality of many current players), who was attempting to be a slugger while housed in a greyhound body. Watching some of the D'backs swing from the heels to knock the ball out of the park AL style when a comfortable gapper would do nicely makes me wonder just what our hitting coach is doing.

 

[mark1]

Lets bring Tracy up and bat him lead off. His OBP is .483 Wohacks is .205

GO GET A HITTER!

 

[AZZenny]

Cintron ain't doing too shabby, either, and I wasn't ever his biggest fan.
BA=.457, SLG=.674, OBP=.479 after 50-plus PA. Man, could those numbers make a difference up here right about now.




just 'cause you pay 'em, you don't have to play 'em!

 

[schillingfan]

Originally posted by AZZenny
OH! That was a rhetorical question! heh heh
He certainly acts like it sometimes. To bring in Randolph at that point, a man with notoriously erratic control...even if Myers usually gets hit by Walker, that was too critical a point to give up a HR, and Myers is going to be craftier about it than Randolph, who is struggling

I thought the same thing about Randolph. It was the game at that point and he brings out ostensibly his worst bullpen arm and the worst possible happened. That was just an excusable mistake to me. Myers should have been pitching to Walker. Oh wait, he was saving him for ??? The game was there to be won or lost at that point and Randolph lost it.

 

[az240zz]

lineup

Why did he change a lineup that had 17 hits on Sunday to the one on Monday?? Also its my opinion that Gonzo hasn't ever done well in the 4th spot. I would much rather see him in the 3rd spot. The cleanup should go to whatever batter is curently hot, if there is one, to drive in runs. At this stage we need runs!!!

Az240z

 

[Moose Lady]

Have to agree about Randolph. When I saw who was in I just sat here going Oh No. I just have no confidence what so ever in that man. You bring out your best not your worse if you want to keep them from scoring again. Hopefully BB actually learns from his mistakes. Oh yeah, and about B Melvin. I really think that he had alot more input as to pinch hitters, relief pitchers etc. than we know. And especially with BB having been a brand new manager. Obviously, Melvin has to be very baseball intelligent or the Mariners wouldn't have hired him. So he was probably a huge contributor to our wins and our WS victory.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by BC867
I wouldn't bat Overbay 3rd for quite awhile. Putting a promising rookie into the pressure spot too early could result in the Travis Lee syndrome.

I've re-thought about whether Lyle Overbay can handle the #3 spot in the batting order, and I believe he can. Here's what I posted on another thread.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Smolder
Overbay in cleanup? couldn't be worse than Matty there...and he's our most consistent hitter right now-this kid is incredible. but I'm also concerned the pressure might be too much for him...remember the start of the season?

I posted on another thread yesterday that it would be a mistake to take the temptation to bat Overbay 3rd. That's what ruined Travis Lee . . . that, and his lack of desire.

With a picture-perfect swing, outstanding fielding at 1B, and the best base-running 1B in the league, Travis felt he had to hit 40 HR in the 3-slot. That's when the popups take over. (Y'know, like Williams, Finley, and even Womack, hacking indiscriminantly at every pitch.)

But I've changed my mind. Lyle Overbay is an intelligent hitter, who knows his role. He's another Mark Grace. He'll hit .300 and drive in runs . . . and pick his spots for a HR now and then.

And, although our Catchers have been hitting well behind Overbay batting 7th, hitting ahead of Gonzo will move him to a new dimension. (I believe he's already 3rd on the team in RBI's.)

And with Counsell and Bautista, or Counsell and Baerga, hitting ahead of him, well, the D'backs are back! Of course, if Brenly returns to the stale ol' Womack and Spivey 1 and 2, it's going to hurt everyone else in the lineup, including Overbay.

So I do think it's just a matter of time until Overbay is moved to 3rd permanently. It might even be as good a combination as Gonzo and Walker would have been, batting 3 and 4. (Don't let Williams hear it. He'll probably want to screw that up, too!)

 

[RLakin]

Originally posted by BC867
It might even be as good a combination as Gonzo and Walker would have been, batting 3 and 4.

I hope you're kidding.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by RLakin
I hope you're kidding.

Am I a D'backs fan, desperate to see someone good join Gonzo in the middle of the batting order?

Or is Overbay showing us a sign of things to come? After 9 Major League at-bats last September, and a slow start this season . . . after 15 games, he is among the D'backs leaders in batting and RBI's -- even tied for 2nd in HR's.

I believe he is ahead of schedule on being what Mark Grace was. (Erubiel who?) No, I am not kidding!

Remember, Larry Walker didn't hit a HR this year until, what was it, Game 12?

 

[unc84steve]

From a theoretical/statistical point, batting orders don't matter much in several senses (though platoon differentials are very real). I mean there's little evidence for batting order differences themselves leading to more runs. There's little evidence when you look for it that hitters "protect" each other or "get better pitches to hit", etc.

The leadoff spot matters because it starts the 1st & pitchers make the most outs (on most teams), thus end more than their share of innings--in turn the next inning starts at #!

But from an psychological/"intangible" view, the leadoff, #3 & cleanup spots are the glamous ones & have more emotional baggage. This cuts both ways for a rookie moving up & for a pressing veteran. That's why we have a Mark Grace mentor plan--to ease pressure.

I'd answer this thread's title ("Is Brenly braindead?") with a strong no. From what I see, BB balances dozens of factors when he composes his lineups. The juggling itself avoids the following dramatic demotion & headline saying

"Junior demoted from 3 spot,
Can Overbay handle pressure?"

Geez, it was national news when the Giants changed their 3-4-5 hitters.

 

[RLakin]

Originally posted by BC867
Am I a D'backs fan, desperate to see someone good join Gonzo in the middle of the batting order?

Sure, but that doesn't make the comparison any less ridiculous. You're comparing a guy who's a lifetime .316 hitter, 1997 National League MVP, and has hit over 30 HR's 4 times, 100 RBI's 5 times, and has one the batting title three times to a guy who has hit .300 yet under 20 HRs at every level of the minor leagues.
I've been impressed with Overbay and I think that he should be the #3 hitter, but that doesn't mean that he's better than Walker.

Originally posted by BC867
Remember, Larry Walker didn't hit a HR this year until, what was it, Game 12?

Yeah, I'd put about as much stock into that as into Randy Johnson's being winless thus far.

Originally posted by BC867
(Erubiel who?) No, I am not kidding!

You should be.

Durazo- 48 AB 11R 3 HR 14 RBI .313 BA .583 SLG

Overbay- 43 AB 4 R 2 HR 5 RBI .372 BA .651 SLG

 

[RLakin]

Originally posted by unc84steve
From what I see, BB balances dozens of factors when he composes his lineups. The juggling itself avoids the following dramatic demotion & headline saying

"Junior demoted from 3 spot,
Can Overbay handle pressure?"

Believe me, there is no grand theory to Bob Brenly's lineups. And I would say that Junior was demoted to the 3 spot since he hit .363 in the #2 spot last year and .266 in the #3 hole.

 

[unc84steve]

I never said there was a "grand theory"--I just meant that he wasn't asleep on the bench.

I often deconstuct words literally, so I was looking at the "braindead" part. There are plenty of signs of EEG activity unlike some managers. Cinci's Bob Boone will stick establishing his "running game" longer than an NFL coach down 17 pts. Last year against the D'backs the Reds in 9th innings down several, had 2 runners picked off the bases or caught stealing.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gameLog?gameId=220813117

This week vs. the Cubs down by 5 in the 6th, he had a strike 'em out, throw 'em out DP:

CINCINNATI 6TH
-Top of the 6th inning
-R Mateo struck out swinging.
-J Castro singled to center.
-K Stinnett struck out swinging.
-K Stinnett struck out swinging. J Castro caught stealing second, catcher to shortstop.

0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors
Cincinnati 2, Chicago Cubs 7
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gameLog?gameId=230416116

Since my sister has Carlos Zambrano in her roto league, I sent her this e-mail based on the Iraq war Pentagon press briefings of a "General" Boone

When asked why didn't he wait for Zambrano to possibly get wild and give up a walk or HR, the Cinci skipper replied testily, "Didn't you see the recent war? That's what the enemy would have been expecting us to do! You have no idea what we're trying to accomplish here. You don't have our plan, do you?"

When asked if running the 30 year old Juan Castro who has 1 career MLB stolen base was really part of "the plan", Bob Boone replied with a sly grin "well, was Zambrano able to strike out the side?"

 

[RLakin]

Fair enough, although often times I think Brenly may be asleep at the wheel. Last years playoffs come to mind, as does every situation with Womack not stealing when he's on 1st (which is rare) w/ two outs and the #2 hitter up in the inning. I also don't understand why he refuses to put a take sign on some of these hitters. Nobody wants another Buck Showalter, but it's OK to exercise power every once in awhile. After all, why else would you need a manager. All this makes me wonder why Brenly even goes to the trouble of relaying signals to Rodriguez on 3rd. I guess it must all be a universal sign of "do whatever you want." Makes that Fox Sports Net commercial w/ Brenly look pretty stupid, though.

Good stuff Steve. I enjoy your posts.

 

[DWKB]

Originally posted by RLakin

Durazo- 48 AB 11R 3 HR 14 RBI .313 BA .583 SLG

Overbay- 43 AB 4 R 2 HR 5 RBI .372 BA .651 SLG

This really is amazing. (sample size issues accounted for)


I do wish RLarkin would have included OBP in his numbers. Both these guys are taking some BBs and should be credited for such.

Player    PA     AVG     OBP     SLG     OPS
Durazo    61    .313    .459    .583    1.042
Overbay   47    .372    .426    .651    1.077

That is way to close to judge. I'd take both of em though ;-)

 

[RLakin]

Yeah, I agree that OBP is very important. I used a quick link from ESPN on Durazo and just entered Overbay's in. Both are playing great, but the "Erubiel who" seemed outlandish considering his numbers are better than Overbay's right now.

 

[RLakin]

C. Counsell SS
C. Baerga 2B
L. Gonzalez LF
D. Dellucci RF
M. Williams 3B
L. Overbay 1B
S. Finley CF
C. Moeller C
E. Dessens P


This guy's lineups just baffle me.

 

[Smolder]

this is painful just to watch...we're doing nothing against williams, who seems to to have the dbacks' number... why couldn't we just have gotten someone like him? dessens was awful today...argh. what a letdown. i was hoping we could just keep building momentum and keep on rolling, but it looks like the dbacks are stuck in this losing mentality...

 

[RLakin]

Matt Williams is batting .083 against right handers this season. So not only does he play today, but he hits in front of left handed Lyle Overbay, who only happens to be the teams best hitter right now. All while Junior Spivey sits for struggling after being put in a place in the lineup that Brenly knew he wasn't as successful in last season.

Crazy.

 

[AZZenny]

No, No! We bring Junior in as PH in the bottom of the ninth. No pressure there! I can't believe Williams was in the lineup. Maybe not brain-dead, but sometimes brain-less.


btw - maybe I'm dyslexic, but it looked to me like Overbay has microscopically better numbers at the moment.

 

[Lefty]

Matt Williams was hitting over 350 lifetime against Williams. Also, Matt Williams has been has been one of the better hitters on this team. I hate to tell all the people who do not like Matt, he will be starting third baseman unless he gets hurt. Besides hitting, Matt is one of the best defensive players on this team. Did you notice the mishaps by Finley(twice) and Gonzo early in the game? The Cardinals took advantage of those blunders to score 4 runs. I guess they need to sit also, right? I just love it when a player goes hitless in a game or two and then people get on his case saying he needs to sit. This team is not hitting as well as they can but I think they will heat up, especially when the weather gets warmer.

 

[RLakin]

Originally posted by Zona90
Also, Matt Williams has been has been one of the better hitters on this team.

He's batting .205 this season.