Is it time to trade Nash?

[leclerc]

Never trade Steve Nash unless he asks for it.

Dragic is a pretty good defender. One game does not change that. He was better last year when he had the ball in his hands when he was on the court. Now he defers to Hedo and he stands around too much not being aggressive.

 

[BC867]

Are we forgetting that we traded a young Steve Nash -- a potential superstar Point Guard? The only reason we ultimately benefited is that were able to re-sign him after Dallas gave him the chance to develop. And now some of our posters are advocating giving up on Dragic's potential.

Nine time out of ten, once you let a young talent get away, you're not going to have the golden opportunity to get him back after another team has done the work for you.

I thought the "It's not my job to develop young players" mentality left with D'Antoni.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yea agreed. I bet no one was sayin all this crap about trading Nash once JJ, D'Antoni, or Marion when we went to the WCFs last year.

But unfortunately now its over. If Sarver wasnt a selfish idiot, he'd trade Nash & Hill and use the talent we get from that to build for the future. I want Steve to win a ring even if its wearing another jersey.

And to all those defending Dragic; What is the whole the offense isnt built for Dragic thing? You mean to say that Dragic is better in a half-court system? I highly doubt it. But I hope you guys are right. And maybe its just me but I dont think he likes Turkoglu much.

I used to think Dragic was a decent defender. He proved me wrong today. He's maybe worse than Nash.

Usually, you bring in a guy and he learns the system and if he's got NBA talent, you have a backup point guard. This system however, is not your typical NBA system. There are a lot of quality PG's that would fail miserably in it and very, very few could hope to run it anywhere near the level of Nash. That's why many of us keep repeating that we won't know for sure what we have in Dragic until we see him in a more traditional offense. He doesn't always seem to have the vision of a top flight PG but he sees the court better now than he did 2 years ago so perhaps he's still got room for growth there.

As for Dragic's defense - he really doesn't seem to have the overall quickness that he had last year. I don't know if it's exhaustion from playing through the summer or if he's injured but he just doesn't look like the same player this season.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

Once Nash is gone, this system WILL change. I don't think Dragic is a starting PG right now, but given what will happen in a year or two, I'm not that worried about him. Another PG would be better suited for the time when Nash is still here.

 

[sunsfan88]

Are we forgetting that we traded a young Steve Nash -- a potential superstar Point Guard? The only reason we ultimately benefited is that were able to re-sign him after Dallas gave him the chance to develop. And now some of our posters are advocating giving up on Dragic's potential.

Nine time out of ten, once you let a young talent get away, you're not going to have the golden opportunity to get him back after another team has done the work for you.

I thought the "It's not my job to develop young players" mentality left with D'Antoni.

Dont forget we gave away Rondo....

 

[SactownSunsFan]

What if it was something like this?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28z8xap

Oh dear God no!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Are we forgetting that we traded a young Steve Nash -- a potential superstar Point Guard? The only reason we ultimately benefited is that were able to re-sign him after Dallas gave him the chance to develop. And now some of our posters are advocating giving up on Dragic's potential.

Nine time out of ten, once you let a young talent get away, you're not going to have the golden opportunity to get him back after another team has done the work for you.

I thought the "It's not my job to develop young players" mentality left with D'Antoni.

I'm in favor of keeping Dragic but I don't think it's anything close to what went on with Nash. Steve was also stuck behind arguably the best PG in the league but they were roughly the same age. That meant Nash probably had more value as a trade chip than he did for our long term success. Also, because of the logjam and the fact that he was already an excellent shooter, we wanted to move him to SG. The trade was done, at least in part, in order to accommodate Steve's desire to be a starting PG.

Steve

 

[Wonder]

Now that JRich is gone, I'd like to see Nash/Hill go to a contender. Even though Hill said he was retiring after his time with the Suns =[

 

[Mainstreet]

Now that JRich is gone, I'd like to see Nash/Hill go to a contender. Even though Hill said he was retiring after his time with the Suns =[

This trade will improve the Suns now and into the future. Plus, I'm guessing, there is an additional trade on the way for more help at PF. There is less reason to move Nash/Hill than before as the Suns are improving. Their defense will get better with Gortat and Petrius. Plus Vince Carter can hopefully fill the role of JRich.

 

[mojorizen7]

Once Nash is gone, this system WILL change.

I'll believe that when i see it. My hunch is that the SUNS radar is strictly fixed on finding another PG to build around....and the prerequisite will be strictly "can he shoot and pass?"

If there's a change in ownership(once Nash retires) there's a chance for a change in culture. Thats all i've got to hope for.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'll believe that when i see it. My hunch is that the SUNS radar is strictly fixed on finding another PG to build around....and the prerequisite will be strictly "can he shoot and pass?"

If there's a change in ownership(once Nash retires) there's a chance for a change in culture. Thats all i've got to hope for.

A PG that can pass and shoot are very good qualities. I don't think the Suns would reject a PG candidate if he can defend. I can understand if you want a Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Michael Westbrook but who doesn't. There were not many believers among many NBA teams about Rondo. Hindsight can be 20/20.

 

[Griffin]

I'll believe that when i see it. My hunch is that the SUNS radar is strictly fixed on finding another PG to build around....and the prerequisite will be strictly "can he shoot and pass?"

If there's a change in ownership(once Nash retires) there's a chance for a change in culture. Thats all i've got to hope for.

When the Suns start looking for a replacement for Nash, and I don't believe that will be Dragic, I don't think they'll necessarily look for a similar player. That would be difficult anyway, because there aren't many players like Nash. But the Suns have always had great point guards. My guess is once the Suns are finally able to get another all-star type PG on the team, then they'll build a system around him (and perhaps whatever PF/C we have at the time) that will suit him the most.

We did not sign Nash because we wanted to be a run-n-gun team, we became a run-n-gun team because we signed Nash and because we built around Nash and Amare, and that system enabled us to get the most out of those players. The same will happen in the future. The system will depend on the players we are able to get to build around.

And btw, if a PG can't shoot nor pass, then he's not much of a PG.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This trade will improve the Suns now and into the future. Plus, I'm guessing, there is an additional trade on the way for more help at PF. There is less reason to move Nash/Hill than before as the Suns are improving. Their defense will get better with Gortat and Petrius. Plus Vince Carter can hopefully fill the role of JRich.

I think this is a good deal for the Suns but I'm not convinced it improves us in the short run. As a matter of fact, I suspect it weakens us noticeably in the short term. I say that because it will take time for the players to acclimate to each other and our system plus the fact that much of the value of this trade is future oriented. Trading Hedo's contract for Carter's contract plus the late first round pick won't likely pay dividends for awhile. I guess there's always a chance that Carter will match or even exceed JR but he hasn't played at that level consistently in quite a while.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

A PG that can pass and shoot are very good qualities. I don't think the Suns would reject a PG candidate if he can defend. I can understand if you want a Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Michael Westbrook but who doesn't. There were not many believers among many NBA teams about Rondo. Hindsight can be 20/20.

Russell Westbrook maybe?

Rondo was an exceptional talent coming out of high school who immediately clashed with his college coach and his teammates. NBA scouts new exactly what he was capable of but feared the damage his headstrong approach would cause if he ended up in the wrong locker room. Even with all the vets in Boston, he was almost too much to deal with - that's why his name kept hitting the rumor mill despite his on-court successes. I'm not at all sure he wouldn't have destroyed most teams so I don't think I'd write it all off to hindsight.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

I think this is a good deal for the Suns but I'm not convinced it improves us in the short run. As a matter of fact, I suspect it weakens us noticeably in the short term. I say that because it will take time for the players to acclimate to each other and our system plus the fact that much of the value of this trade is future oriented. Trading Hedo's contract for Carter's contract plus the late first round pick won't likely pay dividends for awhile. I guess there's always a chance that Carter will match or even exceed JR but he hasn't played at that level consistently in quite a while.

Steve

But Carter, Gortat AND Pietrus should more than exceed JRich and Hedo (and Clark).

 

[AzStevenCal]

But Carter, Gortat AND Pietrus should more than exceed JRich and Hedo (and Clark).

I guess I haven't really seen enough of Gortat to share your confidence. It helps that he brings something to a position of real need (as opposed to Pietrus and Carter) but the NBA is a league of stars and unless Carter has a lot left, we sent away the best player involved in this deal. Either way, if it turns out that we're improved even in the short run then that's just icing on the cake AFAIC because we definitely helped ourselves in the long run.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Russell Westbrook maybe?

Thank you. Just too excited to look up Wesbrook's first name.

 

[Mainstreet]

But Carter, Gortat AND Pietrus should more than exceed JRich and Hedo (and Clark).

I agree although I'm looking at more than talent as probably you are as well. Gortat fills a need at FC where Hedo simply didn't fit or help the Suns. Carter should be able to fill JRich's shoes at least for the rest of the season. Clark was as good as gone as was JRich. Sadly losing Hedo was addition by subtraction but I definitely wish him well. Adding Pietrus will be interesting. I've always liked him. If the Suns had not gotten stronger on their frontline they could simply not compete. Gortat really helps in this area. The addition of a first round pick was an extra bonus. I like the way the Suns are set up to do another deal for a PF if they so desire. I like this flexibility now and going forward.

 

[jagu]

I can't believe we have a big man who is actually a rough and tough guy like Gortat. Someone pinch me... Getting rid of Turk's contract for one expiring, one who can be bought out, and Gortat (whose contract is nowhere near as scary as Hedo's) is brilliance... and also getting a pick!! WTH!!

 

[sunsfan88]

I guess I haven't really seen enough of Gortat to share your confidence. It helps that he brings something to a position of real need (as opposed to Pietrus and Carter) but the NBA is a league of stars and unless Carter has a lot left, we sent away the best player involved in this deal. Either way, if it turns out that we're improved even in the short run then that's just icing on the cake AFAIC because we definitely helped ourselves in the long run.

Steve

Yea I really hope Carter is motivated enough to play well. He's on an expiring contract though so he has to do good to get a new deal. Hopefully that's enough motivation.

Size wise, we are now one of the best in the NBA. And I personally don't think our offense will have a huge decrease in production BECAUSE NASH CAN CREATE OFFENSE OUT OF NOTHING.

 

[Trifecta]

I can't believe we have a big man who is actually a rough and tough guy like Gortat. Someone pinch me... Getting rid of Turk's contract for one expiring, one who can be bought out, and Gortat (whose contract is nowhere near as scary as Hedo's) is brilliance... and also getting a pick!! WTH!!

Are there still physicals etc to be completed before the trade goes through? I don't want anything to come along and snatch this away.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Yes, as cheese said Ray Borque him to the Knicks or something.

Nash for Curry's expiring K and Landry Fields. I think that should open up a max slot in free agency.

 

[S_Nash]

They don't want to give up Fields for Anthony. So I doubt they'll give him up for Nash

 

[TBaslim]

When the Suns start looking for a replacement for Nash, and I don't believe that will be Dragic, I don't think they'll necessarily look for a similar player. That would be difficult anyway, because there aren't many players like Nash. But the Suns have always had great point guards. My guess is once the Suns are finally able to get another all-star type PG on the team, then they'll build a system around him (and perhaps whatever PF/C we have at the time) that will suit him the most.

We did not sign Nash because we wanted to be a run-n-gun team, we became a run-n-gun team because we signed Nash and because we built around Nash and Amare, and that system enabled us to get the most out of those players. The same will happen in the future. The system will depend on the players we are able to get to build around.

And btw, if a PG can't shoot nor pass, then he's not much of a PG.

Great post.

 

[mojorizen7]

My guess is once the Suns are finally able to get another all-star type PG on the team, then they'll build a system around him (and perhaps whatever PF/C we have at the time) that will suit him the most.

Fair enough. I feel that building around a PG is not a good idea.

We did not sign Nash because we wanted to be a run-n-gun team, we became a run-n-gun team because we signed Nash

Haha nicely done. D'Antoni factors into this statement as well Griff,dont forget that.

The system will depend on the players we are able to get to build around.

Is that why we're still putting pieces around a 38 yr old PG? I guess the answer to that would be "yes."

And btw, if a PG can't shoot nor pass, then he's not much of a PG.

Certainly not,especially in Phoenix. I prefer complete basketball players(dont we all right?). Despite Nash's offensive brilliance, its not a good idea to have a PG who cannot defend anyone.
I'm a firm believer that a basketball team needs to be strongest defensively in two critical areas.
PG and Center.
1)The point of attack on the perimeter (PG)
and
2) the last line of defense at the basket.(C)

Building a roster where you may have one or two defensive liabilities is a normality....but building around two guys(Nas/Amare) who are as equally brilliant offensively as they are awful defensively,and surrounding those guys with more offensive players and throwing in one or two guys who can actually guard people is two things:
1) Fun to watch
2) Doomed to ultimate failure


I believe its time(especially in light of todays trade) for the SUNS to sit down with Nash and discuss the possibilities of moving him to a contender or somewhere else where he can do what he does for a team that needs him.