Is Kyler Murray the answer at QB for next year and beyond?

[cardpa]

In Murray's defense, I'll also say that right now, I don't think the offensive system and players around him really work with how Murray ideally plays.

He's not really a rhythm QB and a rhythm based approach won't really work with him.

Which leads one to believe that Murray is not long for Arizona. If you are installing an offense that does not work to the strengths of your QB, then one could say the idea behind this is to build a team and a concept that will build out your offense at the other ten positions and then go get a QB that fits the philosophy of the offense. This leads me to believe that Murray is a placeholder until the Monti and company finish building the offense into their vision and then fitting in a QB as the last piece.

 

[HoodieBets]

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That kind of makes me feel worse, Kyler has had teams just as good as Palmers. We should have accomplished more.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

That kind of makes me feel worse, Kyler has had teams just as good as Palmers. We should have accomplished more.

Ha. Kyler's best team couldn't even clinch a gift-wrapped playoff berth. Had to back into the playoffs and then give us the most embarrassing playoff loss ever.

 

[DVontel]

That kind of makes me feel worse, Kyler has had teams just as good as Palmers. We should have accomplished more.

“Coaching” isn’t a word to you?

 

[SoonerLou]

Which leads one to believe that Murray is not long for Arizona. If you are installing an offense that does not work to the strengths of your QB, then one could say the idea behind this is to build a team and a concept that will build out your offense at the other ten positions and then go get a QB that fits the philosophy of the offense. This leads me to believe that Murray is a placeholder until the Monti and company finish building the offense into their vision and then fitting in a QB as the last piece.

Its why I say Monti didnt do Kyler any favors. They wanted to strip the roster down for a 2024 or 2025 outlook. If Kyler works great. If not they simply move on. This offseason seemed more about Kyler making it work then the other way around.

That kind of makes me feel worse, Kyler has had teams just as good as Palmers. We should have accomplished more.

Coaching. And tbf Palmer at his age just had a level of wisdom Kyler hasnt received yet.

I think Kyler can be very good when he's in his late 20s/early 30s. Are we going to get there is the question.

 

[kerouac9]

That kind of makes me feel worse, Kyler has had teams just as good as Palmers. We should have accomplished more.

He's had teams just as talented as Palmers, but Palmer has one more playoff win than Kyler and the boat-race of the NFC Championship game is almost as embarrassing as Kyler's playoff loss.

It's still frankly amazing that Carson Palmer is in the ROH.

I think Kyler can be very good when he's in his late 20s/early 30s. Are we going to get there is the question.

Kyler's 26 now and a terrible pocket passer. The only time he looks good is when he's on the move. As his physical skills start to decline, why would you think he'd play better?

 

[Cheesebeef]

the fact that this is still a question at the end of year 5 sucks.

especially because he simply hasn't been a good QB for the past two seasons.

 

[PACardsFan]

That kind of makes me feel worse, Kyler has had teams just as good as Palmers. We should have accomplished more.

That’s comical because you forget to mention that Palmer had BA & Murray had hapless KK. That‘s all that needs to be said.

 

[BritCard]

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[BritCard]

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Feels much longer...

 

[SoonerLou]

He's had teams just as talented as Palmers, but Palmer has one more playoff win than Kyler and the boat-race of the NFC Championship game is almost as embarrassing as Kyler's playoff loss.

It's still frankly amazing that Carson Palmer is in the ROH.


Kyler's 26 now and a terrible pocket passer. The only time he looks good is when he's on the move. As his physical skills start to decline, why would you think he'd play better?

Michael Vick had a much better understanding of the game once he was in his early 30s.

Cam Newton finally had a good feel for the pocket and how to find the underneath man.

Ben Big was dynamic game manager until his late 20s/early 30s and then he became a prolific passer.

Only one of those guys physically held up to match game w/ some athleticism.

Im saying/asking if Kyler can somehow physically hold up to the point where he just has the reps/mental understanding he can be very good.

The question was asking if he physically can maintain it until then.

 

[DVontel]

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I loved that he followed it up with this:

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[DVontel]

The All-22 aspect from us is hilarious considering I can just watch any film from college to the NFL regardless of talent & just go “Hey, that guy is open” 95% of the time

 

[DaHilg]

I loved that he followed it up with this:

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Completely contradicts himself.. I guess Mahomes can’t hit those WRs with “1 step of separation”.. we should start throwing shade at Mahomes

 

[SoonerLou]

Ian Rapoport is saying there's no 100% guarantee of Kyler come back. There is still a lot of interest around the league that could temp the Cards.



Im paraphrasing what the PHNX guys said they heard when Ian was on Jody's radio show.

 

[DaHilg]

Ian Rapoport is saying there's no 100% guarantee of Kyler come back. There is still a lot of interest around the league that could temp the Cards.



Im paraphrasing what the PHNX guys said they heard when Ian was on Jody's radio show.

Rap was also one of the guys saying there’s a chance Kyler doesn’t play at all this season based on his contract stips… all these reporters nowadays talk out of both sides of their mouths. With that said, I really wouldn’t be surprised if Minnesota or Atlanta would make strong plays for Kyler

 

[Stout]

I think I want us going after Minshew in the offseason as a backup. He's one of the best backups in the league and can give us some cover if we trade Kyler.

 

[Stout]

I agree.. I am just throughly confused why we aren’t rolling him out and using TONS of play action like Hurts. I honestly think he would be a better version of Hurts if utilized in the same capacity (minus the 1 yard QB sneaks).

I don’t know if we are not doing this on purpose to work on his in the pocket rhythm passing knowing this season is going nowhere OR we are once again playing towards a coaches scheme and not a players talent/skillset.

I don’t think we will know the answer to this until next season.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your second paragraph. They do seem to be purposefully keeping him in the pocket so they can evaluate him there.

 

[oaken1]

Michael Vick had a much better understanding of the game once he was in his early 30s.

Cam Newton finally had a good feel for the pocket and how to find the underneath man.

Ben Big was dynamic game manager until his late 20s/early 30s and then he became a prolific passer.

Only one of those guys physically held up to match game w/ some athleticism.

Im saying/asking if Kyler can somehow physically hold up to the point where he just has the reps/mental understanding he can be very good.

The question was asking if he physically can maintain it until then.

Yeah but Vick had the benefit of a couple years coaching by the experts in cell block D. Nothing makes a guy learn more than brought down to earth

 

[Krangodnzr]

Ian Rapoport is saying there's no 100% guarantee of Kyler come back. There is still a lot of interest around the league that could temp the Cards.



Im paraphrasing what the PHNX guys said they heard when Ian was on Jody's radio show.

I'm only moving on from Kyler under these circumstances:

1) Cardinals end up with #2 overall pick
2) a team in the top ten is offering a top ten pick and more for Murray.

If the Cardinals ended up with Drake Maye and Nabers AND the Texans pick I'd be stoked.

 

[ajcardfan]

I think I want us going after Minshew in the offseason as a backup. He's one of the best backups in the league and can give us some cover if we trade Kyler.

I have always liked Minshew. In the NFL, he is a capable backup, nothing more. But capable backups are gold. I would be happy to see him here.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ian Rapoport is saying there's no 100% guarantee of Kyler come back. There is still a lot of interest around the league that could temp the Cards.



Im paraphrasing what the PHNX guys said they heard when Ian was on Jody's radio show.

I want to build the rest of the team with those draft picks, but if Murray could be traded for positive assets, I'd be tempted to move on.

 

[Harry]

In all likelihood Murray is going to be the QB in 2024. That said I expect the team will forgo a QB in the 2024 draft and run with Murray while using the higher draft picks in 2024 to build out the team. Unless I'm mistaken there are going to be some good QBs available in the 2025 draft so they can take one then.

This is from NFLdraftbuzz.com These four per this website seem to have the most polish on their overall game and you are looking for a more traditional pocket passer. Players like Shedeur Sanders, Jalen Milroe, and Cameron Ward all have been described as QBs who are more dual threats because of their ability to run however they are not as polished in the areas of progressions, reads, etc.

Drew Allar
6'-4" 242 lbs.

• Most of the time Allar is at ease mentally in the pocket, and he’s willing to stand in and absorb hits while making a throw.
• Good zip and ball placement on the quick slant. Good touch down the seam and on post-corner, flag routes to attack the defense vertically and horizontally.
• Because he’s tall and broad-shouldered, he’s able to withstand big hits. Allar plays with a confident, gunslinger mentality and will test windows downfield.
• He shows very nice touch on deep balls, as well as the ability to anticipate windows and fit in tight throws with good velocity.
• He stands tall in the pocket and has the toughness and strong build to withstand contact when he throws.
• Sees the field very well when the play breaks down and occasionally changes plays at the line.
• He checks all the boxes from a physical standpoint. Allar has as much arm talent as anyone in this class and exhibits the ability to get zip on passes even when he’s off-balance.

Connor Weigman
6'-3"
215 lbs.

• Good zip and ball placement on the quick slant. Good touch down the seam and on post-corner, flag routes to attack the defense vertically and horizontally.
• Flashes good accuracy to all levels of the field and has the arm strength to make every requisite NFL throw.
• Weigman has enough arm strength to throw the deep out as well.
• He has a quick release and shows good accuracy on shorter throws when on the move to either side.
• Very confident passer and shows good accuracy and feel when in rhythm. Showed better ball placement from past years and throws very catchable passes. Puts too much air in some of his throws and needs to show a lower trajectory on deep throws.
• He has a compact release and keeps his eyes up in the pocket. Weigman has enough speed and athleticism to threaten with his legs when plays break down.

Tyler Van Dyke
6'-4"
230 lbs.

• Surprisingly athletic quarterback who is a threat to leave the pocket and gain positive yardage at any time
• Able to make all passes you need and has the live arm enabling him to fire frozen ropes from acute angles
• Fast processor and moves through his reads with confidence and speed. Able to look off the safety and beat the defense deep
• Flashes anticipation and placement on intermediate outs and the ability to lead receivers on deeper throws.
• Possesses an NFL arm. Gets the ball from one hash to the opposite sideline in a hurry. Has the zip to hit tight windows on short and intermediate throws.
• Good zip and ball placement on the quick slant. Good touch down the seam and on post-corner, flag routes to attack the defense vertically and horizontally.
• Very confident passer and shows good accuracy and feel when in rhythm. Showed better ball placement from past years and throws very catchable passes.
• Big athlete with good height and stands tall in the pocket to survey. the field. Uses good technique, squaring his shoulders to the target and stepping into his throws.
• Good height and impressive build - prototypical for the position
• Has produced good numbers despite being surrounded by a subpar supporting talent.

Carson Beck
6'-4"
215 lbs.

• Highly-tuned pocket mechanics: connects eyes, shoulders, and feet for fluid and consistent pass delivery under varying game situations.
• Generates elite torque, giving the ball zip and ensuring it arrives with velocity even on deeper throws.
• Displays a natural pocket presence; instinctively feels pressure, adjusts on the fly to craft clean throwing lanes.
• Remarkable poise against the pass rush; Beck's unflappable demeanor under duress is a testament to his game maturity.
• Master of play-action under center; his ability to quickly swing his head and scan post-snap separates him from his peers.
• Ball placement is next-level; surgical on quick slants, with the touch to drop it in the bucket down the seam.
• Physically ideal for the pro game at 6-foot-4, 215 pounds, he's equipped with the arm to challenge all field areas.
• Quick thinker with an innate ability to cycle through reads; Beck's football IQ and instincts shine in high-pressure scenarios.
• His rhythm-based passing style keeps defenses guessing; displays superior short to intermediate accuracy, setting receivers up for yards after catch.

Don’t think Allar has the arm or poise.
Weigman is very inexperience. As a result he has very inconsistant mechanics, he’s much like Dobbs. Major project, but good athlete.
Van Dyke has poor field vision and thus throws too many interceptions. Hard to correct.
Beck is the best of this group. Cerebral, poised, understands the position. He’s a little weak on athleticism. I think his best is a backup, he’s much like McCoy.

 

[SoonerLou]

I'm only moving on from Kyler under these circumstances:

1) Cardinals end up with #2 overall pick
2) a team in the top ten is offering a top ten pick and more for Murray.

If the Cardinals ended up with Drake Maye and Nabers AND the Texans pick I'd be stoked.

Until Drake Maye ruins it all by becoming Never Lawrence. Trevor's less talented brother.

 

[nashman]

Ehh. This is only if you never watched that Ravens team play. I'd argue Hollywood actually seemed more dynamic back then and Snead was a solid vet.

However, this was more about scheme and execution.

You're comparing 1st time play caller Drew Petzing to Greg Roman who had a very clear plan with Lamar Jackson. They leaned heavy on 2 to 3 TE sets AND a FB, Lamar rushing double figures a game and pistol/read option pass plays that opened up free passing lanes for Lamar to decipher quickly.

The Oline constantly mauled teams into getting 3rd and shorts or first downs. Its like comparing the efficiency of those Nebraska teams in the 90s. It worked really well for a year with Roman bringing his 49ers experience with Kaep to Lamar.


I love Lamar as he has constantly improved his pocket movement though.

Not to mention Kyler hasn’t had a healthy Hollywood or Wilson this season lol. They’re both been Nagging injuries so not 100% and it’s damn clear when you watch them trying to play! Has a new TE that is good and look how well that’s going and he trusts him. No WR can say the same as they all pretty much suck right now!