Is this club a David Boston and Rosie Colvin away from a serious playoff run?

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by CardinalChris
But at the same time have you considered the possibility that there was NOTHING Graves could have done to sign Colvin?

Then he shouldn't have said that we were going to get this guy on the roster. If he knew that Colvin wasn't interested in playing with the Cards, this "standup" guy (as everyone in the media calls him) should have said that at the press conference, instead of trotting him out like he was minutes away from signing a contract.

I want the Cards to have Champ Bailey and Charles Woodson in two years. If I say those are my guys, my #1 priorities, and don't get either of them, then I should be held responsible for it, regardless of whether or not they wanted to come.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Then he shouldn't have said that we were going to get this guy on the roster. If he knew that Colvin wasn't interested in playing with the Cards, this "standup" guy (as everyone in the media calls him) should have said that at the press conference, instead of trotting him out like he was minutes away from signing a contract.

I want the Cards to have Champ Bailey and Charles Woodson in two years. If I say those are my guys, my #1 priorities, and don't get either of them, then I should be held responsible for it, regardless of whether or not they wanted to come.

I think you are misquoting Graves a little. He said he wanted to upgrade LB (which he did in the draft and free agency). He did say we wanted Colvin, but not like you are making it out.

If I were in Graves' place, I actually would have offered Colvin at least 4-5 million more. I would have literally offered him something he couldn't refuse.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Please don't try and confuse Kerouac with facts here.
Obviously he has his mind made up.
Not only about Colvin but Bailey and Woodson too.

Amazing, simply amazing.

I'm beginning to see how his path to this board via the azcentral one came into being.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by Renz
Colvin took far less $ to sign with New England. Why do the Cards get criticized for not signing him? Maybe next time they should put a gun to the guy's head, "Please Rosevelt! Accept our millions!"

they get criticized for not closing the deal. whatever it was that swayed rosie to NE we didn't match. this is not saying that anything we did would have convinced him to come here, but always saying we offered the most money so he wouldn't have come here no matter what is, in my mind, shortsighted. it is graves' job to not only find players and offer them contracts, but in this day and age of free agents it is also his job to sell them on the team. he has apparently not done a good job of this generally (see #1 FA wish - colvin, see #1 FA QB wish - kordell, see holliday, marcus robinson, clemons).

 

[Cardsmasochist]

Originally posted by Renz
Colvin took far less $ to sign with New England. Why do the Cards get criticized for not signing him? Maybe next time they should put a gun to the guy's head, "Please Rosevelt! Accept our millions!"

What if we took the $7 MM we are paying Emmit Smith over the next two years and instead, add it to the already higher offer compared to New England? Maybe RColvin would not have been able to turn down such a huge difference in pay. EVERY MAN HAS A PRICE. The Cardinals would be better with Colvin instead of Smith

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
they get criticized for not closing the deal. whatever it was that swayed rosie to NE we didn't match. this is not saying that anything we did would have convinced him to come here, but always saying we offered the most money so he wouldn't have come here no matter what is, in my mind, shortsighted. it is graves' job to not only find players and offer them contracts, but in this day and age of free agents it is also his job to sell them on the team. he has apparently not done a good job of this generally (see #1 FA wish - colvin, see #1 FA QB wish - kordell, see holliday, marcus robinson, clemons).

Nope!!! I don't buy that. Who says Kordell was their first wish? He WAS the first in, and offered a contract. Do you know for sure they thought Kordell would immediately accept the offer? Was it not possible that they gave him the offer they did figuring it was not a lock that he would immediately jump on it? After all, they didn't throw the bank at him.
Once things started to fall...and Jake was the initiator of those events.....they moved quickly and tied up Blake, letting Kordell's butt swing in the breeze.
They made decent offers to everyone. Not outrageous. But certainly they didn't lowball people either.
Do you actually know to what degree they pursued Clemons?
I doubt it.
Do you not think that if they had really wanted Robinson, they would have made more of an effort to get him?

naahhhh...you'd never consider that. You take too much pride in criticizing them.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Nope!!! I don't buy that. Who says Kordell was their first wish? He WAS the first in, and offered a contract. Do you know for sure they thought Kordell would immediately accept the offer? Was it not possible that they gave him the offer they did figuring it was not a lock that he would immediately jump on it? After all, they didn't throw the bank at him.
Once things started to fall...and Jake was the initiator of those events.....they moved quickly and tied up Blake, letting Kordell's butt swing in the breeze.
They made decent offers to everyone. Not outrageous. But certainly they didn't lowball people either.

Tango, you're living in a fantasy land.

The Cards wanted Kordell (since when did this team offer "form" contracts, to make FAs feel better?), and got tired of waiting for him and were wary of the risk of being embarrassed when he took the offer from Chi-town for less money.

They made lowball, humiliating offers to Jake and DB. If those numbers ever come out, I'm sure they'll be laughable.

I know that, to your rolling eyes, the Cards can do no wrong, but be real.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Tango, you're living in a fantasy land.

The Cards wanted Kordell (since when did this team offer "form" contracts, to make FAs feel better?), and got tired of waiting for him and were wary of the risk of being embarrassed when he took the offer from Chi-town for less money.

They made lowball, humiliating offers to Jake and DB. If those numbers ever come out, I'm sure they'll be laughable.

I know that, to your rolling eyes, the Cards can do no wrong, but be real.

Wrong, at least on one point....they offered Boston MORE than San Diego, but he didn't get a very large signing bonus.

 

[Buckybird]

what if we signed Boston to a deal and drafted Byron Leftwich.
Our offense would been deadly and we could have drafted a DE in the second round or maybe next season. We possibly could have traded next years #1 and next years #2 to Jax and still drafted Suggs. Maybe?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

tango, i no longer even want to converse with you. everything is so combative and derogatory. i make comments about what i perceive in the cards organization and then you scream at me. whee, what fun. i don't even want to rationally discuss this team with you any longer.

as for the offer to boston, c'mon, we all know that the signing bonus is the most important part of almost every contract in the nfl. if it's true that the cards offered no signing bonus, we were givin' him away.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE


as for the offer to boston, c'mon, we all know that the signing bonus is the most important part of almost every contract in the nfl. if it's true that the cards offered no signing bonus, we were givin' him away.

Of course, but the total package was more. Obviously the Cards sent him a message with that, basically in my opinion, that we want you ONLY on our terms. No star player in the league would stay with a losing team with those kind of terms (even though he is going to a team that hasn't been to the playoffs since like 95).

 

[mdsisquo]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
If my aunt had a package, she'd be my uncle.

Damn you S11, I swear I was JUST going to type that one! NICE!

 

[Skkorpion]

They made lowball, humiliating offers to Jake and DB. If those numbers ever come out, I'm sure they'll be laughable.

That was a Kerouac quote. Without a clue about what the Cards offered Plummer, Kerouac knows it was humiliatingly low.

 

[Skkorpion]

This arguing about David Boston's offer is silly.

Rod Graves has openly stated they only wanted Boston back on Cards terms - meaning no signing bonus, no guaranteed money.

So what's the problem? Like it or not, that's the deal.

And, it's over! Move on.

Listen, fans, if we had signed Boston to the kind of terms he wanted, and he later screwed up, leaving the Cards in a mess, Kerouac and the rest of the dark side would cruxify the Cards for that too.

I get tired of these threads. If you don't like a particular poster's stuff, put that poster on your ignore list. It's a luxury I don't have and wish I did.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
I get tired of these threads. If you don't like a particular poster's stuff, put that poster on your ignore list. It's a luxury I don't have and wish I did.

Why is it when you say that, I feel like you're talking about me...

 

[Skkorpion]

Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken
Why is it when you say that, I feel like you're talking about me...

I'm not. I just feel obliged to check every post. I'm sure many of you skim what doesn't interest you. I don't do that and I shouldn't be so testy. Kerouac sets me off like Tango sets off some of you.

My apologies to all. I find it difficult sometimes to separate being a fan from running the board with impartiality.

 

[JeffGollin]

Is this club a David Boston and Rosie Colvin away from a serious playoff run?
A false premise lurks somewhere beneath the question (I'm not sure where, but trust me, it's there lurking).

It assumes that either of these two players could put us over the top.

I'm not sure Boston will be good again. I'm not sure that if he is, he'd be that all that much better than the guys we've got in order to make that much of a difference. Some games we'll lose anyway (so D-Bo's presence would be moot). Other games we'll win by a large margin (so here D-Bo's presence would probably not be a game winning factor). So it might boil down to his presence in a handful of games - maybe.

Can any one player make enough difference to put us into the playoffs? Only a few very special players at a few key positions could do that - An Elway-type QB, a really good pass rusher (Colvin? I'm not so sure he would have turned out to be that good). A Junior Seau-type LB or an Aeneas-type CB. Possibly a big moose at DT, but I can't think of any playing right now who could be depended on to make that big a difference on a consistent basis. A WR like Randy Moss? (See previous comments re Boston).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by Skkorpion

Listen, fans, if we had signed Boston to the kind of terms he wanted, and he later screwed up, leaving the Cards in a mess, Kerouac and the rest of the dark side would cruxify the Cards for that too.

skorp, that's awfully quick of you to jump to conclusions. i would have had no problem if we signed the premier FA (in my mind) on the FA market for market, or above market (given we're talkin' cardinals), value. in fact, i still think they should have been proactive and signed him before last season (even with his injury). i have never ripped the organization for giving plummer his contract, at the time, it seemed like a good idea. we may have a negative view of the cards, but c'mon, you can't argue we're inconsistent or two-faced in our views unless you can present us with evidence of where we've been so in the past. sheesh, i'm defending the entire darkside. rather, show me when i've gone back on anything i've said and been two-faced. be fair with your criticism please.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

skorp, i also appreciate your later post. i can understand emotions getting carried away and you always seem to come back with a rational follow up. that's greatly appreciated.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
skorp, that's awfully quick of you to jump to conclusions. i would have had no problem if we signed the premier FA (in my mind) on the FA market for market, or above market (given we're talkin' cardinals), value. in fact, i still think they should have been proactive and signed him before last season (even with his injury). i have never ripped the organization for giving plummer his contract, at the time, it seemed like a good idea. we may have a negative view of the cards, but c'mon, you can't argue we're inconsistent or two-faced in our views unless you can present us with evidence of where we've been so in the past. sheesh, i'm defending the entire darkside. rather, show me when i've gone back on anything i've said and been two-faced. be fair with your criticism please.

But he isn't talking about you....he is talking about one specific person, Kerouac....

 

[pinnacle]

Jeff: interesting thoughts on colvin.. I was all excited about us trying to sign him...but I heard a reporter from the chicago sun times on KDUS and he had a different take..He thought Colvin was a great guy and he had a great rapport with the media. But..the reporter was shocked that colvin was getting the kind of offers he was in the free agent market. He pointed out that in 2002 colvin had 7 sacks in the 1st five games..then he had 3 sacks total in the final 11 games of the season. He was speculating that colvin could have been playing injured - but he was not sure. He also pointed out that in the 2001 season - colvin sacks came in bunches..something like in 10 of 16 games he had no sacks in 2001 - but he had like 3 against atlanta and 2 each against cleveland and washington...the main point was that colvin was very inconsistent - and was not always a pass rushing threat..not sure if this was by design due to different schemes..or what. The reporter also commented that colvin was a marginal run defender - not sure if this is the case of not..

Anyway..colvin has really only been a full time starter for 2 seasons..his 1st 2 seasons he was mostly a backup. Given his age - I am shocked the bears let him walk for nothing..


Anyway..would colvin have been an upgrade - yes. Is he a superstar pass rusher who would have gotten us at least 10 sacks and earned the $$ we were throwing at him? No guarantees on this one...

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
tango, i no longer even want to converse with you. everything is so combative and derogatory. i make comments about what i perceive in the cards organization and then you scream at me. whee, what fun. i don't even want to rationally discuss this team with you any longer.

]

LOL. and how so? You know phx4, you seem to make what I call the classic criminal mistake....You evidently seem to think everyone else thinks like you do. You make some comments, I rebut them, and in doing that you accuse me of being combative and derogatory. Here's the post you evidently were referring to:

Tangodnzr
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
they get criticized for not closing the deal. whatever it was that swayed rosie to NE we didn't match. this is not saying that anything we did would have convinced him to come here, but always saying we offered the most money so he wouldn't have come here no matter what is, in my mind, shortsighted. it is graves' job to not only find players and offer them contracts, but in this day and age of free agents it is also his job to sell them on the team. he has apparently not done a good job of this generally (see #1 FA wish - colvin, see #1 FA QB wish - kordell, see holliday, marcus robinson, clemons).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nope!!! I don't buy that. Who says Kordell was their first wish? He WAS the first in, and offered a contract. Do you know for sure they thought Kordell would immediately accept the offer? Was it not possible that they gave him the offer they did figuring it was not a lock that he would immediately jump on it? After all, they didn't throw the bank at him.
Once things started to fall...and Jake was the initiator of those events.....they moved quickly and tied up Blake, letting Kordell's butt swing in the breeze.
They made decent offers to everyone. Not outrageous. But certainly they didn't lowball people either.
Do you actually know to what degree they pursued Clemons?
I doubt it.
Do you not think that if they had really wanted Robinson, they would have made more of an effort to get him?

naahhhh...you'd never consider that. You take too much pride in criticizing them.
_________________


So where was I combative here? Where was I derogatory? Where did I "SCREAM" at you?
I would guess you say you don't want to rationally discuss this team with me, because doing such a thing is beyond your capabilities. You say you are an attorney....pardon me, but I personally find that a little hard to believe. Your posting methods and comments generally don't seem to display a mind mature or educated enough to be much of a real one (attorney). You instead seem to delight more in identifying with the "darkside" group, like a bunch of uneducated teen gang members. It appears that , that recoginition is more of a priority to you than being a Cardinal football fan.
As Harry Truman said...."If you can't take the heat, get out of the kicthen!".
And spare me your childish rants. They do not impress.

 

[SECTION 11]

christ almighty.

raise your hand if you read all that.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
christ almighty.

raise your hand if you read all that.

yeah boys and girls. Raise your hands.

Is there some attention deficit disorder going on here?

how long till recess?

Can I go potty now?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
LOL. and how so? You know phx4, you seem to make what I call the classic criminal mistake....You evidently seem to think everyone else thinks like you do. You make some comments, I rebut them, and in doing that you accuse me of being combative and derogatory. Here's the post you evidently were referring to:

Tangodnzr
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
they get criticized for not closing the deal. whatever it was that swayed rosie to NE we didn't match. this is not saying that anything we did would have convinced him to come here, but always saying we offered the most money so he wouldn't have come here no matter what is, in my mind, shortsighted. it is graves' job to not only find players and offer them contracts, but in this day and age of free agents it is also his job to sell them on the team. he has apparently not done a good job of this generally (see #1 FA wish - colvin, see #1 FA QB wish - kordell, see holliday, marcus robinson, clemons).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nope!!! I don't buy that. Who says Kordell was their first wish? He WAS the first in, and offered a contract. Do you know for sure they thought Kordell would immediately accept the offer? Was it not possible that they gave him the offer they did figuring it was not a lock that he would immediately jump on it? After all, they didn't throw the bank at him.
Once things started to fall...and Jake was the initiator of those events.....they moved quickly and tied up Blake, letting Kordell's butt swing in the breeze.
They made decent offers to everyone. Not outrageous. But certainly they didn't lowball people either.
Do you actually know to what degree they pursued Clemons?
I doubt it.
Do you not think that if they had really wanted Robinson, they would have made more of an effort to get him?

naahhhh...you'd never consider that. You take too much pride in criticizing them.
_________________


So where was I combative here? Where was I derogatory? Where did I "SCREAM" at you?
I would guess you say you don't want to rationally discuss this team with me, because doing such a thing is beyond your capabilities. You say you are an attorney....pardon me, but I personally find that a little hard to believe. Your posting methods and comments generally don't seem to display a mind mature or educated enough to be much of a real one. You instead seem to delight more in identifying with the "darkside" group, like a bunch of uneducated teen gang members. It appears that, that is more of a priority to you than being a Cardinal football fan.
As Harry Truman said...."If you can't take the heat, get out of the kicthen!".
And spare me your childish rants. They do not impress.

[/B]

Okay - now you're calling my brother - who graduated from Tufts University, then went on to American U for Law school and then got his masters in tax law from Georgetown - a liar. Sorry, I forgot those credentials aren't as impressive as The Fred Seagal School of Dancing that you have on your resume.