It is just 1 game.

[cardsfanmd]

These days he appears less mobile however. .

I think he is maybe more mobile and definitely in better shape nowadays. He never had to move much in STL as he had better weapons and didn't need to hold the ball as long.

 

[Cards_Campos]

Warner: 84 fumbles in 97 games....3100 Pass Attempts(didnt see snaps) but this is usually the main concern anyway.

FUM%=2.079 a pass attempt


Favre: 149 fumbles in 261 games....8882 pass attempts.

FUM%=1.678 a pass attempt



Brady: 65 fumbles in 113 games.....3653 pass attempts

FUM%=1.779 a pass attempt

Romo:21 fumbles in 996 pass attempts

FUM%=2.108



So the stats do say Romo fumbles more per attempt...And Warner does come in 2nd...but not by the wide margin most would think.

INT%(career)

Warner: 3.4%
Favre:3.3%
Brady: 2.4%
Romo:3.6 %

And Romo has been Pro Bowl 2 years out of 3

 

[Russ Smith]

Well, if I recall, Warner was not quite as turnover prone during the Rams glory days. These days he appears less mobile however. Kurt hasn't played a full season as a starter in recent years which helps limit his fumbles in your analysis. Would be interesting to see a "turnover per snap" comparison.

I have CC on ignore but when people quote him I see it.

Talk about ironic telling someone to get their facts straight.

Big Ben fumbled 4 times against Philly last week, per NFL.com he fumbled twice. Whoever made that post, for all we know CC is quoting himself, read the TOTAL for 4 games for Ben which is now 4, not the total for the Philly game which was 2.


Warner doesn't fumble as much as Favre. Warner got hurt with the rams and since then has been fumble prone, so why is his career high only 12? Because nobody else LET HIM PLAY LONG ENOUGH TO TOP 12 IN A SEASON!

He had 6 in 2 games with the Rams his last year, 10 in 06 in 6 games(that was for us remember), 9 in 10 games in 05(us again), 12 in 04, in 10 games (Giants). Even last year his resurrection year 12 fumbles, 14 games 11 starts.

Favre also plays 16 games every season, nobody lets Warner play that long anymore because of all the turnovers, if someone would let him play 16 games as the starter, I'm betting he tops 12 fumbles, hell he may get to 20.

 

[Pariah]

Dude ...see you open your mouth to just switch feet. Only the ones that Critisize me personally. I said that based on the fans who use insults or sarcasm to prove a point...Instead of disagreeing and then using facts. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND??? I mean I dont get mad if you disagree.

I posted the wrong link. I apologize.

Look at this thread and tell me how 40% of the fans "Critisize [sic] you personally." You're pissed that people don't agree with you, and you call them out for being "clueless."

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1799884&postcount=19

Excuse me now while I switch feet again.

 

[Pariah]

INT%(career)

Warner: 3.4%
Favre:3.3%
Brady: 2.4%
Romo:3.6 %

And Romo has been Pro Bowl 2 years out of 3

Do it for the last 5 years. We'd all love to have Warner circa 1999.

 

[Pariah]

WOW this was a point threaded on AZCARDINALS.com....and I couldn't state this any better.....

You mean the same site you disregarded as "hilarious" in this thread?

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/azcardinals-com-is-hilarious-117981.html?highlight=fans

 

[Pariah]

Every fan here would take his 2nd half performance in every game from here on out Guarnateed!!! And if you wouldn't well that makes no sense. 35 points 330 yds and 2 TD's will win 95% of our games.

Sure, we'd all wet our pants at the prospect of that every game. But when you add in the first half, I'll bet we wouldn't get nearly as excited.

As has been pointed out, you're getting really excited about "Good Warner," but "Bad Warner" lurks and has reared his head. You can't have one without the other. It's impossible to know who will show up.

 

[dscher]

If you are such a Cards fan, then why is it so hard for you to criticize Warner when he obviously sucks, like all of us other Cards fans?? I know I can constructively judge a performance on any of our players because when they get killed in a game, they will get what is coming to them. You cant do that with Warner and he does no wrong in your mind. That is jock sniffing. I want to see one post from you that tells all of the the blunders from Warner instead of always defending him when he messes up. Just once! But, I know I am not the first poster to bring this to your attention, so it wont do that much good. But, when 95% of the fans on this board are here flaming the guy for a bad performance, and you and a few others are always here to the rescue for him no matter what... then, well, you know what it makes you look like..

Ok.. I'm done. lol

 

[MrYeahBut]

Its a shame Moklermans' thread about 'I can't defend Warner anymore' is locked. We could just continue that one til Warner retires

 

[joeshmo]

WOW this was a point threaded on AZCARDINALS.com....and I couldn't state this any better.....

"Big Ben fumbled 4 times last week against Philly.

Speaking of not letting facts get in the way.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxsc...box_score&season=2008&week=REG3&override=true

Count them 2 not 4 fumbles.

Farve has 149 career fumbles, he's had years of 16 and 14

Favre has 149 fumbles over a 19 year career. Favre also had those 16 and 14 totals years back in 1993 and way back in 2001. Can you get any more outdated. Guess what Favre also has the INT record. That sort of comes when you have more pass attempts and have played in more games then any other QB in the history of the league.

Warner's most was 12. Brady's had 65 fumbles with years of 13, 12, 12 and 11.

Brady also has over 500 more passing attempts in this league then Warner does in a shorter amount of time.

That should be written down along side Mark Twain kidding...but just think about that! Everyone thinks Warner is a fumble machine and yet he has NEVER had a year with more fumbles than Brady or Favre. A stat I didnt know but it makes my point so much sweeter.

Again lets not get facts in the way.

Warner = 3100 Pass Attempts Divided by 84 Fumbles = a fumble rating of a Fumble every 36.9 pass attempts

Favre = 8882 Pass Attempts Divided by 149 Fumbles = a fumble rating of a Fumble every 59.6 pass attempts

Brady = 3653 pass attempts divided by 65 fumbles = a Fumble rating of a fumble every 56.2 pass attempts.

Favre and Brady Blow Warner out of the water when it comes to protecting the football. The Facts show that clearly. You hitched your pony to the wrong Wagon over at the AZcardinals website were you got these facts because they are completely wrong and not done in context. You said once that that site was horrible or laughable or something like that. You may want to take your own advice and not take any more points from those clowns anymore.

And another point...He probably is sacked more than both of them too!

Why is that a good thing for your arguement. It is widely known that Warner holds on to the ball to long leading to more sacks then other QB's It is also a fact that he isnt as mobile. That is a negative against Warner not a positive. Kurt had the best LT of all time blocking for him in his prime while at STL.

I understand you found something that went along with your arguement on the message board. But before you actual use that info do some fact checking on it first because it actually ended up backfiring on you once you actual do some fact checking.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Instead of always going back to the 2001 KW as apoint of reference - can we just say this about Warner? He played behind the worlds best offensive line (one HOF and probably the biggest factor in his success - he was never touched), with Torry Holt and Issac Bruce (two potential HOF'ers), arguabally the best RB of all time, and a OC who let him sit back there and wing it.

I am not trying to disregard what he did but maybe for that three year span he had the greatest span in history because of circumstances - not because he is such a great QB. Asking any team since then to replicate that perfect storm is insane. If Trent Green didn't get hurt maybe we are talking about him as a two time MVP. Maybe not - but its all conjecture at this point and just as likely that he will EVER revert back to that form.

With the Cardinals luck he will sign on as a backup for head coach Mike Martz in SF next year and tear it up. And then those MB's can experience the joy that is Mokler and Brenda Campos.

But I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Speaking of not letting facts get in the way.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxsc...box_score&season=2008&week=REG3&override=true

Count them 2 not 4 fumbles.



Favre has 149 fumbles over a 19 year career. Favre also had those 16 and 14 totals years back in 1993 and way back in 2001. Can you get any more outdated. Guess what Favre also has the INT record. That sort of comes when you have more pass attempts and have played in more games then any other QB in the history of the league.



Brady also has over 500 more passing attempts in this league then Warner does in a shorter amount of time.



Again lets not get facts in the way.

Warner = 3100 Pass Attempts Divided by 84 Fumbles = a fumble rating of a Fumble every 36.9 pass attempts

Favre = 8882 Pass Attempts Divided by 149 Fumbles = a fumble rating of a Fumble every 59.6 pass attempts

Brady = 3653 pass attempts divided by 65 fumbles = a Fumble rating of a fumble every 56.2 pass attempts.

Favre and Brady Blow Warner out of the water when it comes to protecting the football. The Facts show that clearly. You hitched your pony to the wrong Wagon over at the AZcardinals website were you got these facts because they are completely wrong and not done in context. You said once that that site was horrible or laughable or something like that. You may want to take your own advice and not take any more points from those clowns anymore.



Why is that a good thing for your arguement. It is widely known that Warner holds on to the ball to long leading to more sacks then other QB's It is also a fact that he isnt as mobile. That is a negative against Warner not a positive. Kurt had the best LT of all time blocking for him in his prime while at STL.

I understand you found something that went along with your arguement on the message board. But before you actual use that info do some fact checking on it first because it actually ended up backfiring on you once you actual do some fact checking.

damn, Campos just got Palin'd!

 

[Cards_Campos]

damn, Campos just got Palin'd!

DUDE.. I wrote the same stats a page earlier...I know and showed the stats...I am aware of the stats that Warner has. Warner is also on pace for 32 TDS and 16 ints...with almost 4900 YDS passing yards this year....stats I am sure will win us many a game....Thanks for the re hash of the same argument I pointed out 2 messages right before yours. You are the Chris Mortensen of the ASFN board. Slap yourself on the back and drink another Yahoo...You deserve it. lol...what a bafoon.

 

[Cards_Campos]

I have CC on ignore but when people quote him I see it.

Talk about ironic telling someone to get their facts straight.

Big Ben fumbled 4 times against Philly last week, per NFL.com he fumbled twice. Whoever made that post, for all we know CC is quoting himself, read the TOTAL for 4 games for Ben which is now 4, not the total for the Philly game which was 2.


Warner doesn't fumble as much as Favre. Warner got hurt with the rams and since then has been fumble prone, so why is his career high only 12? Because nobody else LET HIM PLAY LONG ENOUGH TO TOP 12 IN A SEASON!

He had 6 in 2 games with the Rams his last year, 10 in 06 in 6 games(that was for us remember), 9 in 10 games in 05(us again), 12 in 04, in 10 games (Giants). Even last year his resurrection year 12 fumbles, 14 games 11 starts.

Favre also plays 16 games every season, nobody lets Warner play that long anymore because of all the turnovers, if someone would let him play 16 games as the starter, I'm betting he tops 12 fumbles, hell he may get to 20.

Dude goto the damn Azcardinals board..it is a direct quote...Put me on ignor...to bad I cant ban people from reading my posts...

 

[Cards_Campos]

Yes Warner has played some bad games...Jesus...He had the Giants 5-4 and in the wild card lead and they benched him to goto 6-10 for the season. He lad St louis to 2 superbowls...and they bench him after 2 bad games...Bulger hasnt taken them past the first round ever..and now he is benched. He got benched by Denny and Lienart loses 8 games in a row. Now show me 1 stat that proves he should have been benched. He is on pace for 32 TDS and 4900 yds passing....He has the 2nd HIGHEST QB RATING in the history of the NFL...and the last 2 years for us he a rating of over 91.0!!!!!HOLY HELL is that hard to see??????????????????????? He tied our franhise record and now may break it...yet you guys throw stones....No wonder no free agents want to come here...

 

[cdex99]

Yes Warner has played some bad games...Jesus...He had the Giants 5-4 and in the wild card lead and they benched him to goto 6-10 for the season. He lad St louis to 2 superbowls...and they bench him after 2 bad games...Bulger hasnt taken them past the first round ever..and now he is benched. He got benched by Denny and Lienart loses 8 games in a row. Now show me 1 stat that proves he should have been benched. He is on pace for 32 TDS and 4900 yds passing....He has the 2nd HIGHEST QB RATING in the history of the NFL...and the last 2 years for us he a rating of over 91.0!!!!!HOLY HELL is that hard to see??????????????????????? He tied our franhise record and now may break it...yet you guys throw stones....No wonder no free agents want to come here...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Warner is also on pace for 32 TDS and 16 ints...with almost 4900 YDS passing yards this year....stats I am sure will win us many a game....

4900 yards, 32 TD and 28 turnovers (with 16 total fumbles). In other words, just enough to get you beat. A 32:28 TD:Turnover ratio WON'T win us many games. That ratio is PATHETIC. It might get us to .500. Sorry if I don't celebrate mediocrity.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Yes Warner has played some bad games...Jesus...He had the Giants 5-4 and in the wild card lead and they benched him to goto 6-10 for the season. He lad St louis to 2 superbowls...and they bench him after 2 bad games...Bulger hasnt taken them past the first round ever..and now he is benched. He got benched by Denny and Lienart loses 8 games in a row. Now show me 1 stat that proves he should have been benched. He is on pace for 32 TDS and 4900 yds passing....He has the 2nd HIGHEST QB RATING in the history of the NFL...and the last 2 years for us he a rating of over 91.0!!!!!HOLY HELL is that hard to see??????????????????????? He tied our franhise record and now may break it...yet you guys throw stones....No wonder no free agents want to come here...

do you think coaches bench guys for no reason? You just stated how many times he's been benched. It's because of turnovers. I don't care how many yards, TD's or what your QB rating is, if your team turns the ball over more than the other, then you are likely going to lose and that's the bottom line.

 

[jefftheshark]

and the last 2 years for us he a rating of over 91.0!!!!!HOLY HELL is that hard to see??????????????????????? He tied our franhise record and now may break it...yet you guys throw stones....No wonder no free agents want to come here...

I've always known it! Those darn free agents have been reading this board and deciding they'd rather play someplace else!

Hey Keebali, for the sake of the Cardinals, we need to shut this damn board down right now!!!!!!!!!



JTS

 

[Cheesebeef]

here's some more numbers, since Kurt was taken on the team with probably the best offensive talent of all time, his TD:Turnover ratio is 64:72 (even though he's continued to play with numerous ALL-Pro WRs/RBs). Woeful.

the name of the game in the NFL is TURNOVER RATIO. You lose that, you're going to lose more games than you win.

 

[Russ Smith]

do you think coaches bench guys for no reason? You just stated how many times he's been benched. It's because of turnovers. I don't care how many yards, TD's or what your QB rating is, if your team turns the ball over more than the other, then you are likely going to lose and that's the bottom line.

It doesn't matter he apparently picks and chooses which stats to believe and which not to. Both Joe and I pointed out the post from the other board was not correct.

Now he's apparently extrapolating stats from 4 games for a whole season to argue his point.

So we have a guy who said he he had a bad half but it all evened out, and a guy who said his biggest concern from the last game was what HIghtower failed to do with more early carries. That's right not my concern was Kurt fumbling over and over after I swore he wouldn't do that anymore because of his magic gloves, my concern is with Tim Hightower.

 

[Cards_Campos]

4900 yards, 32 TD and 28 turnovers (with 16 total fumbles). In other words, just enough to get you beat. A 32:28 TD:Turnover ratio WON'T win us many games. That ratio is PATHETIC. It might get us to .500. Sorry if I don't celebrate mediocrity.

LOL 4-12,5-11, 5-11,6-10,5-11 basically are records the last 5 years before Warner started....8-8 last year with him starting most of the season....I think maybe you should celebrate Improvement...or did you like those stellar seasons?? When have we been above mediocrity???? WOW I could understand if we were 11-5 4 years in a row....Baby steps man baby steps.

 

[Cards_Campos]

do you think coaches bench guys for no reason? You just stated how many times he's been benched. It's because of turnovers. I don't care how many yards, TD's or what your QB rating is, if your team turns the ball over more than the other, then you are likely going to lose and that's the bottom line.

Do you guys read every other line. Those teams NEVER improved....Warner is NOT the problem. If you have an ear ache do you get rid of your glasses? His QB rating is a DIRECT account of his game play??? That is why he has a better QB rating then 45 Hall of Fame Qb's. Look I feel like I might as well be his agent around here....The whole reason I argue is he makes us win more than we lose...atleast compared to our past QB's...

 

[Stout]

WOw another great example of why the Cardinals are 32nd in fan base.

And there you have it in a nutshell. Notice you aren't including yourself in the group of Cards fans, buddy. Notice you're rooting for Warner exclusively. Why can't you just say that you're a Warner fan and not a Cards fan. I could understand that and respect that. I won't respect how you attempt to completely ignore how awful he was in this game. Spin it however you like, Warner was one of the big reasons we lost. He gave up at least 10 points PERSONALLY.

 

[joeshmo]

His QB rating is a DIRECT account of his game play???

No it is not. QB Rating doesnt take into account all turnovers because they dont include fumbles, and issue that many a sports writter and coach have been wondering about for some time. In fact the Cards just did a thing on there Maximum Cardinals show and asked everyone how you come up with a QB Rating, not a one knew how to calculate it not even Warner. It is not nearly as uncomvaluted or straight forward as lets say a batters batting average. A batters average is what it is and nothing more. But just like the pass rating, it is just one stat out of many that goes into the whole picture. It is just one puzzle piece.

In fact the QB rating isnt even agreed upon by all. For example NCAA and the NFL use different formula's.