Its Official: We have a QB Controversy

[Fiasco]

Fitz' amazing athletic ability was the key to today's offense not Skelton. Meanwhile Kolb has looked like a slowly sinking ship getting worse every week.

Skelton's amazing 4th Q didn't hurt.

 

[GatorAZ]

I say give Skelton another shot and use Kolb's toe as an excuse if you want to avoid any "controversy" with the fans... Skelton has more potential, that point isn't even debateable. Skelton was far from perfect but he doesn't fold in the pocket and always keeps his eyes on the WR's unlike #4.

 

[Duckjake]

Skelton's amazing 4th Q didn't hurt.

There is no Skelton's amazing 4th quarter if Fitz doesn't make an incredible catch for a 37 yard gain to the Eagles 1 yard line. I thought the ball was overthrown for sure but the FRANCHISE stretches out and catches it.

Larry is just unreal. He had at least 4 catches today that left me wondering how in the world did a talent like this with his outstanding character end up playing for the Cardinals.

 

[GatorAZ]

There is no Skelton's amazing 4th quarter if Fitz doesn't make an incredible catch for a 37 yard gain to the Eagles 1 yard line. I thought the ball was overthrown for sure but the FRANCHISE stretches out and catches it.

Larry is just unreal. He had at least 4 catches today that left me wondering how in the world did a talent like this with his outstanding character end up playing for the Cardinals.

Not sure how only Larry gets the credit today. That throw to the 1 yrd line was amazing. Skelton rolled out left and noticed the 1v1 coverage on Fitz, dropped a dime that had the right amount of air underneath and led him about 40 yards in the air. Fitz' first catch was dropped between the corner and safety only where he had a chance to catch. Fitz' first TD he walked in because Skelton pumped faked the entire defense. Now he made some huge mistakes but some of that miscommunication will be cleared up with game experience. That said he could implode next week, then we'll take the next step whether it be back to Kolb or not.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Larry is just unreal. He had at least 4 catches today that left me wondering how in the world did a talent like this with his outstanding character end up playing for the Cardinals.

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Cause Larry is who this man thought he was, and Denny did not let him off the hook on draft day.

 

[londonpete]

This is a pretty good QB controversy to have to be honest.

Kolb/Skelton vs Anderson/Hall...??

Neither guy, despite what we are paying KK ,has a huge amount of actual gametime experience but Skelton has shown he can make comebacks, make pressure throws and be very Plummer-esque.

KK could be a good QB but he could either go the way of a Matt Schaub or a David Carr.

With the Oline we have got now, I prefer Skelton under centre.
If we eventually sort out the Oline and some some decent pass protection ( yeh I can dream) , then we will really see what Kolb is capable of.
Until that point , you have to go with #19 I think.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Its funny no one was saying don't get the best QB available in the offseason because we have John Skelton on the roster!.

Actually, I was all for picking up an aging vet and letting Skelton be our QOF. Actually, there was a good number who were in that category as well.

No but after we win 2 games against bad teams 1 from a punt return in OT against a terrible 1-6 rams team and one against a banged up Philly team with Skelton playing decent, he is all of a sudden the guy that should start? Hopefully Whiz is not as shortsighted as some of you fans, the much improved D that has showed up is much more responsible for the wins than John Skelton!

Great points.

I think Skelton is a better prospect then Kolb for many reasons.

And the Rams game gave us the double deuce. Kolb ain't got no double deuce, heck that is all the arguement I need. DOUBLE DEUCE!

To judge Kolb on playing much tougher competition and losing very close games with the D playing like complete s%# much of the time is just ignorant. When Kolb is healthy he should be the starter.

Bullcocky. I didn't know the Panthers, Vikings, Redskins, and Seahawks were such power houses in the NFL.

Not to mention Kolb had the game on his shoulders a couple of times, and choked.

Start Skelton. Kolb has shown his what he can do, and either he sucks or needs time to learn the system so he can be confident in the system.


So, I guess the debate is between the short sighted, and ignorant versus the stubborn, and blind

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I went into this in more detail in another thread, but starting Skelton over Kolbis incredibly short sighted. I understand the argument as I, like all of you, want wins. What makes the move short sighted is that you can never go back Kolb if Skelton fails. You have nothing to lose if you start Kolb and give him every opportunity to succeed this season as the season is lost already. However, if you start Skelton over a healthy Kolb, you have ruined any chance that Kolb has to develop in the future. You have given up on a QB that you went to great lengths to acquire after 7 starts for a guy who has looked mediocre, albeit impressively mediocre, against two sub .500 teams. We can always turn the reins to Skelton down the line if Kolb doesn't pan out. The only way that we can lose in the deal is if we bench a healthy Kolb for Skelton.

Oh no. We might risk losing Kolb. :shudder:

Again, for the umpteenth time. We are we talking about "developing" Kevin Kolb ?

He was brought in to be a polished, starting QB.

So you "develop" the 27 year old QB who has been in the league for 5 years and has seemed to regress as the year has been going on.

And you don't develop the 23 year old QB who has been in the league for 2 years, and has seemed to progress with each of these starts ?

Now who is being short sighted again ?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Everyone's looking awful in Philly. The Trade looks all right if it's DRC for Kolb, but we also threw in a second-round pick that's looking like it might be in the Top 45.

That makes the trade terrible, because at least DRC's absence for the Eagles was glaring once he went down (like how our offense started operating). This team improved once Kolb went down.

Take your time getting better, Kevin.

Maybe you should wait and see what kind of career that 2nd pick has before saying that is what made it a terrible trade. The trade was the right move at the time and more people were bemoaning giving up DRC than a 2nd round pick. I'm not writing Kolb off yet but there is risk involved in any trade. Heck, Philly may be wishing they kept Kolb over Vick. Kolb performed well in their system.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The thing I like best about Skelton is he doesn't let bad plays fluster him and had some bad plays. He was was responsible for 17 points for Philly with the pick six, the INT that led to a FG, and overthrowing Fitz by 15 yards on a sure TD but then he comes back an led the Cards to two scoring drives after the mistakes.

 

[kerouac9]

Maybe you should wait and see what kind of career that 2nd pick has before saying that is what made it a terrible trade. The trade was the right move at the time and more people were bemoaning giving up DRC than a 2nd round pick. I'm not writing Kolb off yet but there is risk involved in any trade. Heck, Philly may be wishing they kept Kolb over Vick. Kolb performed well in their system.

So now we can't evaluate the trade until... three or four years after next April? Seriously?

The trade was stupid when it was made, and it looks even worse now that Kolb has been awful and Skelton has looked better than him in nearly every phase of the game. The only defense of the trade right now was that it convinced Fitz to re-sign, which is still pretty weak sauce.

If by "the right move at the time" you mean "the only move we could've made after sitting on our hands through the draft and the opening of free agency," then you're probably right. But if the start of the plan was to get backed into a corner by the Eagles until we gave up the farm (and the promise of a 2nd round pick + passing on a QB in the first round of the 2012 draft was too high a price), then it was and remains a dumb trade.

 

[Totally_Red]

In a way this reminds me of the Rams when Marc Bulger grabbed the reins from a shell-shocked Kurt Warner and led the Rams to several victories. When Kurt returned to health, Mike Martz still rode the hot hand. It didn't pay off in the long run, but it did yield some short-term results.

I'm not convinced Skelton is the long-term solution, but you have to go with the hot hand. If he proves his mettle against a very tough SF defense Sunday and beats the much bally-hooed Whiners, he's the guy the rest of the season IMO. If not, you very likely go back to Kevin Kolb.

 

[az jam]

In a way this reminds me of the Rams when Marc Bulger grabbed the reins from a shell-shocked Kurt Warner and led the Rams to several victories. When Kurt returned to health, Mike Martz still rode the hot hand. It didn't pay off in the long run, but it did yield some short-term results.

I'm not convinced Skelton is the long-term solution, but you have to go with the hot hand. If he proves his mettle against a very tough SF defense Sunday and beats the much bally-hooed Whiners, he's the guy the rest of the season IMO. If not, you very likely go back to Kevin Kolb.

Agree, that most likely is what will happen. Whiz will give Kolb another week to heal, which makes sense.

 

[THESMEL]

actually

your right but but I did say that John could be better than Kolb with the same experience. Kolb is average, he may always be average?

Skelton is 6'6" with wheels that can throw it through a wall. He might peak out average like Mcnown or He might start for 10 years? It is nice to see somebody get the ball to Larry.

Skelton is about Equal to Kolb right now, with upside. What you seee is what you may get from Kolb. I had him graded at an 80 starter quality with no frills. That is better than last year.

Its funny no one was saying don't get the best QB available in the offseason because we have John Skelton on the roster! No but after we win 2 games against bad teams 1 from a punt return in OT against a terrible 1-6 rams team and one against a banged up Philly team with Skelton playing decent, he is all of a sudden the guy that should start? Hopefully Whiz is not as shortsighted as some of you fans, the much improved D that has showed up is much more responsible for the wins than John Skelton! To judge Kolb on playing much tougher competition and losing very close games with the D playing like complete s%# much of the time is just ignorant. When Kolb is healthy he should be the starter.

 

[BigRedFan]

As Kolb has not shown to be any better than Skelton, at least not as yet, essentially we paid 65 million, a draft pick and a starting corner for QB depth. That's called getting rooked.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

So now we can't evaluate the trade until... three or four years after next April? Seriously?

The trade was stupid when it was made, and it looks even worse now that Kolb has been awful and Skelton has looked better than him in nearly every phase of the game. The only defense of the trade right now was that it convinced Fitz to re-sign, which is still pretty weak sauce.

If by "the right move at the time" you mean "the only move we could've made after sitting on our hands through the draft and the opening of free agency," then you're probably right. But if the start of the plan was to get backed into a corner by the Eagles until we gave up the farm (and the promise of a 2nd round pick + passing on a QB in the first round of the 2012 draft was too high a price), then it was and remains a dumb trade.

In about 3-4 years we'll know what that 2nd round pick is. And that's if the player is even on the roster in 3-4 years. The "hit" rate on 2nd round picks is 50% or less. Kolb was the best QB available and worrying about a 2nd round pick panning out would be pretty stupid to hold off on acquiring, what many thought, was not only filling a gaping hole in the roster but also considered by many to have a pretty high ceiling. Kolb was one of those high 2nd picks you're going on about. I would have given up 2 second rounders for Kolb rather than DRC but DRC hasn't panned out.

It's pretty easy to second guess in hindsight. What QB was available in the draft? Skelton would be outperforming Locker, Gabbert, or Ponder. Then you'd be on here whining we passed on PP for a guy who can't beat out Skelton, unless you're thinking we should have taken Dalton at 5, which would be a pretty lame argument considering he didn't go in round 1.
I think it's funny all the people on here now who "knew" Skelton was better when we didn't even know if he was the #2 for the first half of the season.

Let's say the trade turns out to be a benched DRC and the next Cody Brown, was it stupid? I admit Kolb has looked bad buut it's too ealy to write him off, especially after 7 games. Like I pointed out in another thread, Warner was so-so at best and 3-15 in his years of starting for the Cards. NOt saying Kolb is going to be Warner but just showing how it's way to early to judge Kolb yet.

 

[Mulli]

So now we can't evaluate the trade until... three or four years after next April? Seriously?

The trade was stupid when it was made, and it looks even worse now that Kolb has been awful and Skelton has looked better than him in nearly every phase of the game. The only defense of the trade right now was that it convinced Fitz to re-sign, which is still pretty weak sauce.

If by "the right move at the time" you mean "the only move we could've made after sitting on our hands through the draft and the opening of free agency," then you're probably right. But if the start of the plan was to get backed into a corner by the Eagles until we gave up the farm (and the promise of a 2nd round pick + passing on a QB in the first round of the 2012 draft was too high a price), then it was and remains a dumb trade.

I thought you said a QB in the first round is not a must?

 

[JCSunsfan]

The lesson in all of this is

Throw the ball to Larry!

The key to Skeltons game was that he threw the ball to Fitz, even when he wasn't open. When Warner learned that, he became a lock for the Hall of Fame.

 

[chickenhead]

It just makes the season more interesting. I haven't given up on Kolb, but I'm not against Skelton starting again. Actually, I want him to start again this week: if he comes through with a win against the Niners on the road? Just turn the keys over to him for now. If he doesn't and Kolb is 100%, let Kolb go back to work against the Rams.

 

[crisper57]

It just makes the season more interesting. I haven't given up on Kolb, but I'm not against Skelton starting again. Actually, I want him to start again this week: if he comes through with a win against the Niners on the road? Just turn the keys over to him for now. If he doesn't and Kolb is 100%, let Kolb go back to work against the Rams.

This.

The Niners' D will show us what Skelton is made of. Let's face it, the last 2 weeks, he's faced under-performing D's. SF will bring the house. Knowing that, I say start Skelton instead of Happy Feet.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

This.

The Niners' D will show us what Skelton is made of. Let's face it, the last 2 weeks, he's faced under-performing D's. SF will bring the house. Knowing that, I say start Skelton instead of Happy Feet.

I agree.

But IF Skelton has a solid game, we can't go back and start touting the Niner's defense as overated.

The Niners defense is as legit as they come.

 

[Chopper0080]

I agree.

But IF Skelton has a solid game, we can't go back and start touting the Niner's defense as overated.

The Niners defense is as legit as they come.

Now that would start a controversy. As much as I have said that the Cards have to stick with Kolb, if Skelton starts against the 49ers, doesn't look terrible and leads the team to a win...then Skelton is the starter from here on out and we are looking to get a 5th round pick for Kolb.

3-0, w/ more TD's than Ints, and with his physical tools leads to you being a starter in this league. See Matt Cassell as exhibit A.

 

[gmabel830]

This.

The Niners' D will show us what Skelton is made of. Let's face it, the last 2 weeks, he's faced under-performing D's. SF will bring the house. Knowing that, I say start Skelton instead of Happy Feet.

I'm kind of in the same mindset at this point. Not trying to be glass half empty, but I don't see either of our QBs having much success against the Niners next week with the way they are playing on defense right now. And, we'll definitely get a full week of "See, I told you - Kolb is a loser and Skelton is a winner" from a lot of fans if Kolb plays and doesn't play well and the team doesn't win. I don't think we should write off either QB yet, especially not the one the organization made a significant investment in, and I think Kolb is very close to getting the DA treatment from a lot of fans. So, let's see what Skelton can do against an elite defense, and if he comes out and is successful that will definitely change my viewpoint on the whole situation. Skelton was excellent down the stretch yesterday, but has been up and down like Kolb in whole, only with a little bit better command of the offense and a lot better pocket presence. If he goes out and proves it against SF, I'll be fully on the "keep playing Skelton" bandwagon.

I'll be rooting hard for whoever is in there, but I do think throwing Kolb back in there given all of the circumstances is an almost impossible task given he's still battling an injury, playing an elite team/defense, and the whole context of how the season has played out so far. I am very interested to see how things play out and how either QB will look against an elite defense like SF given the point we are at in the season. I personally think that the best case possible scenario for the long-term is Kolb going out there with his back completely against the wall and playing an outstanding game from start to finish, I just don't see it playing out that way.

 

[chickenhead]

I won't call the Niners overrated. The Niners aren't overrated anymore: they're 8-1. Their only loss was an early season loss in overtime. If Skelton wins I don't know how you don't say he gives the Cardinals the best chance to win. Maybe it's the same way Alex Smith gives the Niners the best chance to win, and I don't think Niners fans are minding right about now.

 

[kerouac9]

In about 3-4 years we'll know what that 2nd round pick is. And that's if the player is even on the roster in 3-4 years. The "hit" rate on 2nd round picks is 50% or less. Kolb was the best QB available and worrying about a 2nd round pick panning out would be pretty stupid to hold off on acquiring, what many thought, was not only filling a gaping hole in the roster but also considered by many to have a pretty high ceiling. Kolb was one of those high 2nd picks you're going on about. I would have given up 2 second rounders for Kolb rather than DRC but DRC hasn't panned out.

It's pretty easy to second guess in hindsight. What QB was available in the draft? Skelton would be outperforming Locker, Gabbert, or Ponder. Then you'd be on here whining we passed on PP for a guy who can't beat out Skelton, unless you're thinking we should have taken Dalton at 5, which would be a pretty lame argument considering he didn't go in round 1.
I think it's funny all the people on here now who "knew" Skelton was better when we didn't even know if he was the #2 for the first half of the season.

Let's say the trade turns out to be a benched DRC and the next Cody Brown, was it stupid? I admit Kolb has looked bad buut it's too ealy to write him off, especially after 7 games. Like I pointed out in another thread, Warner was so-so at best and 3-15 in his years of starting for the Cards. NOt saying Kolb is going to be Warner but just showing how it's way to early to judge Kolb yet.

LOL. So there's no absolute value on NFL draft picks. By your measure, we could've given up 2 firsts for Kolb, but we wouldn't be able to grade the trade until we find out whether or not the draft picks work out? Give me a break.

Would DRC be benched here? Of course not. We'd just have the best CB corps this side of the New York Jets, with maybe a better pass rush at this point. The Eagles' pass D fell apart once DRC got injured yesterday, but apparently he's garbage. Whatever.

I said it all offseason, and you gave me a ration of ***** for it: We should have signed Alex Smith. Any of the free agents would've been as good as Kolb for 50% of the price, and zero draft pick compensation. DRC + a second round pick + Skelton + money to re-sign Campbell and Doucet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kolb.

We could have traded up to take Andy Dalton ahead of the Bengals or drafted Ryan Mallett and been in better shape for the short- or long-term than the stupid trade for Kevin Kolb.

There's no argument to be made that you have to go into training camp with a definite starter at quarterback. A rookie would've had an extra 10 days of practice time than Kolb had and we wouldn't have to mortgage the future to have him. A free agent QB would've competed for the position with Skelton, and if Skelton outplays him then you release him the next year, or he's a Mark Brunell-style veteran backup.

And you end with the fallacy that because Warner with an awful coaching staff struggled here that Kolb with a consistent coaching staff (that Warner immediately blossomed under) will do the same. Nice work, but I'm not falling for it. Call me when Kolb goes to two Super Bowls and is two-time NFL MVP before coming here.