Jackson/Warren tandem

[Suns_fan69]

Wasn't it Starks?

 

[SirStefan32]

Is there a better word than soft to describe Marion considering he would bang in the paint with guys that had 30+ lbs on him? Maybe he was timid at times in the playoffs.

Eh, soft, timid, it doesn't really matter what word you use. We used to call him a tortilla around here because he'd fold every time it mattered. After that hard foul, it got much worse- he just avoided contact, he started shooting more and driving less.

 

[SirStefan32]

Wasn't it Starks?

It may have been. I don't think it was Fortson- he is the one who destroy Zarko Chabarkapa's career with a dirty play. I remembered that just after I posted my previous post. I think you may be right about John Starks.

EDIT: Yep, it was Starks. Couldn't find the clip, but I found this:
http://nypost.com/2001/02/27/starks-undercut-was-disgraceful/

http://a.espncdn.com/nba/news/2001/0226/1111466.html

 

[mojorizen7]

Jackson will be better at creating his own shot in the half court sets than Marion.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just watching some more film of Jackson. Man, wow. I was thinking of Shawn Marion comparisons

Same pogo-stick hops as Shawn
Better at blocking out
Better ball handler
Better passer
Same height
Similar non-stop motor (never gets tired)
Similar, maybe even better, defender
Similar around the rim
Similar shooter coming out
Worse free throw shooter
Better three point shooter
Slightly worse two point shooter
Way more intense, just a nasty disposition

MUCH better ball handler and defender.

Everything wise I agree with.

 

[JCSunsfan]

MUCH better ball handler and defender.

Everything wise I agree with.

Marion was a very good defender. The Suns kept pushing him for defensive first team and DPOY. I think I will wait before I say someone who hasn't played an NBA minute is in that level.

He did disappear in the playoffs though. Jackson doesn't seem the type to do that. Very different personality.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Marion was a very good defender. The Suns kept pushing him for defensive first team and DPOY. I think I will wait before I say someone who hasn't played an NBA minute is in that level.
y.

The Suns kept pushing... and literally NO ONE in the league agreed... EVER. He never even made a THIRD TEAM All-Defensive Team. Not ONCE.

His D was MASSIVELY overrated on this board for years simply because DA put him on anyone from G to PF. But just because he guarded those positions DIDNT mean he guarded any of them well.

And remember... he was playing on SUPER high profile teams... teams that get players on All-Whatever Teams... and he STILL couldn't even make ONE 3rd Team All-Defensive.

I've seen Jackson play... right now he can be just as mediocre as Marion doing the jack of all trades things and will only get better.

 

[Bufalay]

There's no such thing as third team all-defense.
So Marion was never one of the top four forward defenders. Duncan Garnett Artest...

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns kept pushing... and literally NO ONE in the league agreed... EVER. He never even made a THIRD TEAM All-Defensive Team. Not ONCE.

His D was MASSIVELY overrated on this board for years simply because DA put him on anyone from G to PF. But just because he guarded those positions DIDNT mean he guarded any of them well.

And remember... he was playing on SUPER high profile teams... teams that get players on All-Whatever Teams... and he STILL couldn't even make ONE 3rd Team All-Defensive.

I've seen Jackson play... right now he can be just as mediocre as Marion doing the jack of all trades things and will only get better.

I think Marion's downfall to his defensive legacy was his inability to guard Dirk Nowitzki. In retrospect, it was a lot to ask. Dirk was in his prime.

 

[GatorAZ]

I think Marion's downfall to his defensive legacy was his inability to guard Dirk Nowitzki. In retrospect, it was a lot to ask. Dirk was in his prime.

Especially in the 4th qtr of games he was asked to play 45 minutes.

 

[Mainstreet]

Especially in the 4th qtr of games he was asked to play 45 minutes.

True.

Marion took a lot of blame for the Suns defensive woes.

 

[Cheesebeef]

True.

Marion took a lot of blame for the Suns defensive woes.

Really? I never blamed Marion for our defensive woes. It wasn't his fault he was consistently asked to guard guys he really couldn't. That blame all deserves to go to DA.

 

[Mainstreet]

Really? I never blamed Marion for our defensive woes. It wasn't his fault he was consistently asked to guard guys he really couldn't. That blame all deserves to go to DA.

If I recall, many posters gave Marion a tough time because he couldn't guard Dirk. He was probably the Suns best option to slow Dirk down but few could. He also drew the assignment on other big men when he was playing PF.

IMO, Marion should be mentioned with the other Suns greats.

 

[leclerc]

That's the key difference. Marion was always soft, especially after that one scary fall. I can't remember who it was, but someone fouled him hard while he was in the air. He was never really tough, but after that incident, he was just never the same. I want to say it was Fortson, but I might be thinking of a different incident. Jackson doesn't seem to have any fear. He really looks like a Marion with a PJ Tucker intensity. Or a PJ Tucker with Marion's skill set.

Fortson blindsided our young euro player who was in a good rhythm and he never recovered. Basically that thug ended his career on one nasty "play". Sub human scum.

 

[Errntknght]

Fortson blindsided our young euro player who was in a good rhythm and he never recovered. Basically that thug ended his career on one nasty "play". Sub human scum.

I think that was Cabacarpa... (spelling is ?)

 

[BC867]

Is there a better word than soft to describe Marion considering he would bang in the paint with guys that had 30+ lbs on him? Maybe he was timid at times in the playoffs.

I put that on the GM's (which included owner and coach, the GM wanna-be's). Legitimate leaders do not put their people into constant uphill situations.

Also, from talking with Marion (or trying to) at Yoshi's during my lunchtimes, when he stopped by to pick up lunch and I was there eating, I came away realizing that he has the IQ of a fire hydrant, which is always part of the equation in evaluating a player.

A team whose Small Forward is its leading rebounder is going nowhere.

 

[Hoop Head]

I can't believe people are still hung up on Marion playing PF during the Nash years, it wasn't just under D'Antoni. He excelled at that position and had the best seasons of his career playing PF. If we had that team now we'd probably be one of the only teams that could challenge the Warriors. The mid 2000 Suns were before their time and helped usher in the style of basketball that is now played across the league.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I put that on the GM's (which included owner and coach, the GM wanna-be's). Legitimate leaders do not put their people into constant uphill situations.

Also, from talking with Marion (or trying to) at Yoshi's during my lunchtimes, when he stopped by to pick up lunch and I was there eating, I came away realizing that he has the IQ of a fire hydrant, which is always part of the equation in evaluating a player.

A team whose Small Forward is its leading rebounder is going nowhere.

BC, have you been on vacation? I did not see you post during the draft. Did I just miss it?

So you are saying if your leading rebounder is, say, 6-7, 230, you are in trouble as a team? Because Marion was playing pf (and Stoudemire was starting at center) much of the time he was in Phoenix.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can't believe people are still hung up on Marion playing PF during the Nash years, it wasn't just under D'Antoni. He excelled at that position and had the best seasons of his career playing PF. If we had that team now we'd probably be one of the only teams that could challenge the Warriors. The mid 2000 Suns were before their time and helped usher in the style of basketball that is now played across the league.

As you note, Marion would be a perfect fit at PF in today's NBA.

 

[mojorizen7]

True.

Marion took a lot of blame for the Suns defensive woes.

Not from me. I blamed the culture, the coaching, Nash, Amare, Barbosa, Tim Thomas, Diaw, Jason Richardson, Robin Lopez, Channing Frye, Gortat...etc etc

Marion, Bell, K.Thomas and G.Hill did the best they could surrounded by bad defensive players and a system that didn't preach it.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not from me. I blamed the culture, the coaching, Nash, Amare, Barbosa, Tim Thomas, Diaw, Jason Richardson, Robin Lopez, Channing Frye, Gortat...etc etc

Marion, Bell, K.Thomas and G.Hill did the best they could surrounded by bad defensive players and a system that didn't preach it.

I liked Marion as well but the swell of those who disliked him became almost unbearable.

 

[mojorizen7]

I liked Marion as well but the swell of those who disliked him became almost unbearable.

That's too bad. I don't recall all that stuff. My biggest Marion peeve(as a member of our BIG THREE) was his inability to create his own shot and score in the half court sets that were more prevalent in those playoff runs. But again, that goes back to the system itself.

 

[Chaplin]

I loved Marion--the only thing that really bothered me about him is his unwillingness to play for Boston.

 

[GatorAZ]

I loved Marion--the only thing that really bothered me about him is his unwillingness to play for Boston.

Shaq was the first option?

 

[JS22]

I loved Marion--the only thing that really bothered me about him is his unwillingness to play for Boston.

Please don't remind me.