James Harden Traded to Houston

[maljanAZfan]

Yep. They didn't sell a game out last year, and unless the Heat come to town, I doubt it will happen this year.

I know it was Halloween and all, but it was just depressing being there. The only reason I went was because I got free suite tickets. I can only imagine what a morgue it will be as the year goes on.

Another thing I just can't stand about the whole stadium experience is the wall of noise. From the minute you enter the building to the minute you leave, it's just a constant onslaught of noise/promotions/lights and all other sorts of BS.

For the life of me, I have no idea who it is supposed to appeal to, but it's just overwhelming. Are people that ADD that they need sound and all sorts of other crap in their face the entire game? I couldn't even talk to people two seats away from me.

I agree, it's really overwhelming inside. Last season, I got cheap tickets from ScoreBig for myself and 2 friends, and we couldn't even comment to each other on what was happening during the game. It was exhausting trying to yell over the noise.

 

[BC867]

Oh definitely...it seems impossible to blow through a million, let alone 100 million, but it's happened. Still, with a little common sense, it seems quite easy to avoid all that. When you have that kind of money, you don't have to take risks to stay fabulously wealthy.

I think that rather than race, it is based on the socio-economic bracket in which the player was raised.

If what he saw and learned before becoming an instant millionaire was based on living day-to-day, without the luxury of planning economically for the long-term future, there is no foundation for doing so.

I would hope that Mark West, a 6'10" stockbroker, would be steadily counseling all Suns players in the importance in investing for the 5-10-15 years later when the unfathomable paychecks stop.

 

[jagu]

San Antonio, still flopping.

 

[Russ Smith]

San Antonio, still flopping.

And winning the game on a play that featured not one but two blatant illegal screens to get Parker open. The one under the basket was bad enough, and Westbrook had to guess which way Parker was going and guessed wrong, but the one by Duncan on Perkins was laughable.

Not only moving, but he actually reached out and hooked Perkins and spun him. He did a better job screening off Perkins than the Cards 2 OT's have done all year. ref standing right there watching it.

Oh well.

 

[Griffin]

Harden scores 45 in his second game with Houston after posting 37 previously. Still not worth max money? Still rather take your chances with a lottery pick?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well, it would at least be a start. Dragic and Gortat certainly seem like tradeable assets, and you'd at least have 1 piece of the puzzle.

Went to the game last night, was impressed with Dragic, Scola and Tucker. Telfair was relentless on D, but had trouble running the offense.

This is pretty clearly a team that's going nowhere. The stadium was HALF FULL on opening night, and I can only imagine that getting worse as the year goes on.

At least we have some young talent to get ex... oh wait, Morris is still garbage with no potential and loved this little anecdote about our other lottery pick:

"Does the team’s first-round draft pick, Kendall Marshall, have the work ethic to improve his game so that he can contribute at some point this season?

The Suns had four player-development coaches but only two players who remained after the morning shoot around to work. Marshall was not one of them. That’s never a good sign."

From where we were 5 years ago, Sarver has completely sucked the life out of this franchise. Hate to be negative, but it's so aggravating to have my favorite team completely marginalized, with so little hope for the future.

The only silver lining in all of this is that we'll be bad enough to at least get a future star in the draft. I really see no other reason for optimism.

Is it too late to jump on the "why didn't we trade whatever it took to get Harden" bandwagon? What an incredible two game start to his Houston career.

Steve

 

[HooverDam]

Harden gonna be the only guy besides Wilt to average 40ppg!

Harden scores 45 in his second game with Houston after posting 37 previously. Still not worth max money? Still rather take your chances with a lottery pick?

How are those mutually exclusive?

I want the Suns to get a lottery pick AND I would've been happy trading for, or singing Harden as a FA.

Unfortunately, there's NO WAY the Suns could've beaten Houstons offer. Who on the Suns roster is as good as Kevin Martin and fills OKCs void at the 2 when Harden leaves? No one. What picks can the Suns offer that are as good as the Toronto one?

Even if the Suns offered their own pick, Dudley and Gortat, they Rockets could've beaten them likely. Unfortunately, the Suns don't have many worthwhile assets.

 

[sunsfan88]

Harden gonna be the only guy besides Wilt to average 40ppg!



How are those mutually exclusive?

I want the Suns to get a lottery pick AND I would've been happy trading for, or singing Harden as a FA.

Unfortunately, there's NO WAY the Suns could've beaten Houstons offer. Who on the Suns roster is as good as Kevin Martin and fills OKCs void at the 2 when Harden leaves? No one. What picks can the Suns offer that are as good as the Toronto one?

Even if the Suns offered their own pick, Dudley and Gortat, they Rockets could've beaten them likely. Unfortunately, the Suns don't have many worthwhile assets.

Dudley, Gortat, Morris and the LAL picks as well as our unprotected '13 first rd pick would have been better than the HOU offer imo.

 

[HooverDam]

Dudley, Gortat, Morris and the LAL picks as well as our unprotected '13 first rd pick would have been better than the HOU offer imo.

Right, but OKC could've said "OK Houston, the Suns offered that, can you up your offer" and they potentially could have.

Plus you have to keep in mind salary matching and all of that.

 

[Griffin]

How are those mutually exclusive?

I want the Suns to get a lottery pick AND I would've been happy trading for, or singing Harden as a FA.

My questions were mainly directed at those who didn't think the Suns should even target Harden next summer, much less try to trade for him, and that the Suns should just focus on securing a high pick.

 

[Broseph]

Dudley, Gortat, Morris and the LAL picks as well as our unprotected '13 first rd pick would have been better than the HOU offer imo.

Who would of been our center?

 

[Folster]

Who would of been our center?

Kendrick Perkins.

 

[HooverDam]

Who would of been our center?

Nerlins Noel, next year

 

[SunsTzu]

Nerlins Noel, next year

Get on the Steven Adams bandwagon early! But any trade that would have landed Harden would have included next years pick.

 

[Folster]

edit: wrong thread

 

[Phrazbit]

As I said earlier in the thread, I dont see a trade the Suns can put together that beats Houston's offer. We can talk all day about not doing whatever it took, but what it took was compiling legit trade assets. Houston has been stockpiling them for years while the Suns roster is virtually barren.

 

[jagu]

Watching Harden play this season, we missed an opportunity on a great ballplayer. I'm not sure if the Suns pursued him but they should have. Creates his own shot and is unstoppable inside.

 

[Griffin]

As I said earlier in the thread, I dont see a trade the Suns can put together that beats Houston's offer. We can talk all day about not doing whatever it took, but what it took was compiling legit trade assets. Houston has been stockpiling them for years while the Suns roster is virtually barren.

It's interesting to look at just how Houston managed to do that. The biggest asset they traded away for Harden was Kevin Martin. OKC wanted Martin because he can help them immediately replace Harden and because his contract expires at the end of season. The Suns had no one like that. So how did Houston get Martin? They were willing to trade McGrady's expiring contract and take on Jeffries salary, the type of trade the Suns might have been able to pull off (with Vince Carter's contract perhaps) but didn't. Houston also gave up Carl Landry in that deal whom they have obtained by buying an early second-round pick for cash and future 2nd rounder.

The other main component of the Harden trade was Jeremy Lamb. Houston obtained him by trading up in the draft (from 14th to 12th to draft ahead of Phoenix who would have likely taken him). To do that they gave up Dalembert whom they have signed as a free agent the previous off-season.

They also gave up 2 future 1st round picks, and a 2nd round pick to get Harden.

In other words, they converted own draft picks, free agent signings and assets obtained via trades to get Harden. The Suns didn't have these types of assets because they would not convert their expiring contracts into assets or pay to obtain additional draft picks.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

It's interesting to look at just how Houston managed to do that. The biggest asset they traded away for Harden was Kevin Martin. OKC wanted Martin because he can help them immediately replace Harden and because his contract expires at the end of season. The Suns had no one like that. So how did Houston get Martin? They were willing to trade McGrady's expiring contract and take on Jeffries salary, the type of trade the Suns might have been able to pull off (with Vince Carter's contract perhaps) but didn't. Houston also gave up Carl Landry in that deal whom they have obtained by buying an early second-round pick for cash and future 2nd rounder.

The other main component of the Harden trade was Jeremy Lamb. Houston obtained him by trading up in the draft (from 14th to 12th to draft ahead of Phoenix who would have likely taken him). To do that they gave up Dalembert whom they have signed as a free agent the previous off-season.

They also gave up 2 future 1st round picks, and a 2nd round pick to get Harden.

In other words, they converted own draft picks, free agent signings and assets obtained via trades to get Harden. The Suns didn't have these types of assets because they would not convert their expiring contracts into assets or pay to obtain additional draft picks.

Excellent points. Teams like Houston identify players and do what it takes to get them.

We have no plan, no identity, and a bunch of excuses. Good times!

 

[95pro]

Excellent points. Teams like Houston identify players and do what it takes to get them.

We have no plan, no identity, and a bunch of excuses. Good times!

we are kind of headed to a more positive future. its just that we dont have the assets, instead we are stuck with morris and marshall. we got rid of lopez. atleast we arent locked in long term on the likes of scola, johnson, and oneal. who else is short term? brown, tucker, ??? beasley somewhat.

 

[SunsTzu]

we are kind of headed to a more positive future. its just that we dont have the assets, instead we are stuck with morris and marshall. we got rid of lopez. atleast we arent locked in long term on the likes of scola, johnson, and oneal. who else is short term? brown, tucker, ??? beasley somewhat.

Only Dragic, Dudley, and Frye(possibly Scola) have guaranteed contracts beyond next season. And if Frye is unable to return the Suns could get a medical waiver so his contract doesn't count towards the cap.

The Rockets had a head start on their rebuild process but don't forget they struck out multiple times before landing anyone. The important thing is to maintain flexibility so you can strike when the timing is right instead of panic signings/trades.

 

[95pro]

Only Dragic, Dudley, and Frye(possibly Scola) have guaranteed contracts beyond next season. And if Frye is unable to return the Suns could get a medical waiver so his contract doesn't count towards the cap.

The Rockets had a head start on their rebuild process but don't forget they struck out multiple times before landing anyone. The important thing is to maintain flexibility so you can strike when the timing is right instead of panic signings/trades.

right, we should still have some flexibility. i wonder how much money Gortat is going to demand when his contract is up, when is that anyway? is he in a contract year this year, explaining his improved D?

we have a lot of holes to fill still. dragic is a nice piece to start with.

 

[SunsTzu]

right, we should still have some flexibility. i wonder how much money Gortat is going to demand when his contract is up, when is that anyway? is he in a contract year this year, explaining his improved D?

we have a lot of holes to fill still. dragic is a nice piece to start with.

Gortat's contract expires after next season. He'll likely be looking for at least 11-12mil per. The 2013 is big heavy though so the Suns may at some point look to move Gortat if they draft someone they think can replace him(hopefully Steven Adams).

 

[JCSunsfan]

Gortat's contract expires after next season. He'll likely be looking for at least 11-12mil per. The 2013 is big heavy though so the Suns may at some point look to move Gortat if they draft someone they think can replace him(hopefully Steven Adams).

More than that. Much more. Bank on it.

If the Suns could net a very good young center out of this draft and maybe another pick, I would strongly consider trading Gortat. There has to be some young team out there with good talent, and really needs a very good proven center to get them over the hump.

 

[JS22]

Gortat's contract expires after next season. He'll likely be looking for at least 11-12mil per. The 2013 is big heavy though so the Suns may at some point look to move Gortat if they draft someone they think can replace him(hopefully Steven Adams).

I'm wondering if Gortat, Dudley, unprotected #1 next season and a few throw-in pieces would have been able to get it done.