JJ Arrington=Thomas Jones

[joeshmo]

He fumbled the ball 18 times and only lost that many times- thats a lot in 2 years!!!!!!!

And your proof is where?

He fumbled 6 times and lost 5 of them in 2 years and I already showed the stats and links to prove it.

Its about time you at least to try and backup your claims.

I dont mind saying I am wrong if you actually have more reliable proof then I do.

 

[Grand Canon]

Link

Cant forward it- it is from my friend who goes to Cal - he definately fumbled more than twice last year..

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Does anyone else think that these two are similar in size, speed, strength, fumbling and just about a mirror image of each other...??? It seriuosly worries me.

It is too early to predict that he is a bust ala Jones, but by what I've seen so far it could end up being true ..........

 

[Russ Smith]

Cant forward it- it is from my friend who goes to Cal - he definately fumbled more than twice last year..

Well that's convincing enough for me, I stand corrected.



You must have been brilliant on the debate team. "I can't give you a source for this but I heard we never really landed on the moon that was a Hollywood movie set."

 

[SeattleCard]

I will reserve my final judgement until after one game.

 

[az1965]

I will reserve my judgement after at least 3-4 games.

 

[zett]

I think 18 fumbles in two years is excellent for a guy with 3 fingers and 2 thumbs on the same hand I'd like to see you do any better

 

[nidan]

I have been a fan since 88- seen many back come and go- I just see Arrington as a TJ type player- and fumbling was a problem for JJ in college as well - its not a new thing.. do some research if you are going to respond.

You shgould do so reaserch on Jones as well, hestitancy on the LOS was his big problem.

Time will tell for JJ

 

[40yearfan]

I don't think that Bear, Dolphin, or Buc fans were in love with their previous starters like AZ fan is crosseyed in love with Marcel Shipp.

How did Shipp manage to get into this conversation? I thought we were talking about JJ.

:K9stalker:

 

[joeshmo]

Cant forward it- it is from my friend who goes to Cal - he definately fumbled more than twice last year..

You got to be joking.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Does anyone else think that these two are similar in size, speed, strength, fumbling and just about a mirror image of each other...??? It seriuosly worries me.

No not at all.

You watch JJ and he hits the hole hard. He gets the hand off and hits the hole.

Jones would dance, and try to be Barry Sanders.

Plus JJ is faster, quicker, and better out of the backfield with catching the ball.

Plus JJ has yet to injure himself answering the phone.

 

[40yearfan]

Plus JJ has yet to injure himself answering the phone.

Good one Rugby.

 

[D-Dogg]

This is a great thread...for me to poop on.

/Triumph

 

[WisconsinCard]

How did Shipp manage to get into this conversation? I thought we were talking about JJ.

:K9stalker:

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'm undecided on JJ. I do think people are expecting too much out of him. I don't see him gining 1400 yards and getting 10+ TD's.I think about 800 yards and 5 TD's is more realistic.I hope he does get 1400,10+ but i doubt it. The guy who i think he compares to is Travis Henry. I can also see the TJ comparison.TJ was the highest rated back in the draft it's just too bad that he started under the coaching regime that killed more talent than any other in NFL.If TJ had this staff as a rookie i guarantee his career would be alot better.

 

[JeffGollin]

Premise of the question may be a tad shaky. The selective use of stats can prove any point.

Two examples of the misuse of statistics:

1. Player #1 (Thomas Jones) had the following numbers in 4 or 5 categories. Player #2 (Arrington) had simililar numbers in those categories. Ergo the two players are virtually identical. This ignores other NFL players who may also have similar stats in those categories. (In other words, if Barry Sanders or Marshall Faulk had similar numbers, wouldn't that mean that JJ is as good as Barry or Marshall?)

2. Who says the statistical categories that were cherry-picked are the end-all? What about other categories as Total Yardage, Yards Per Carry, Percentage of Carries Picking Up 3 or more yards, (Conversely, the Percentage of Carries for Losses), TD's, Carries Per Game, Durability, Percentage of Gains Over 10, 15, 25 yards etc.?

What about the intangibles? How do you measure vision, decisiveness in the hole, blitz pickup skill, faking without the ball etc.?

 

[kerouac9]

Plus JJ is faster, quicker, and better out of the backfield with catching the ball.

J.J. is definitely the first two, but Thomas Jones is one of the better receiving RBs in the NFL. He's also a solid blocker in the backfield.

T.J. had his problems in AZ, but this is some revisionist history.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

J.J. is definitely the first two, but Thomas Jones is one of the better receiving RBs in the NFL. He's also a solid blocker in the backfield.

T.J. had his problems in AZ, but this is some revisionist history.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

How did Shipp manage to get into this conversation? I thought we were talking about JJ.

Not okay to talk about Shipp, but it is ok to talk about Williams or Brown?

 

[Duckjake]

I don't think that Bear, Dolphin, or Buc fans were in love with their previous starters like AZ fan is crosseyed in love with Marcel Shipp.

Well Shipp IS the only Cardinal RB since Earl Ferrell in 1988 to gain more than 800 yards rushing while averaging more than 4 yards per carry.

Bashing JJ and Shipp is essentially saying Green can't help make players perform better with his coaching and schemes. I want to see the two of them play in some games that count under Dennis before making any judgement. Coach 'em up Denny!

 

[kerouac9]

Well Shipp IS the only Cardinal RB since Earl Ferrell in 1988 to gain more than 800 yards rushing while averaging more than 4 yards per carry.

Bashing JJ and Shipp is essentially saying Green can't help make players perform better with his coaching and schemes. I want to see the two of them play in some games that count under Dennis before making any judgement. Coach 'em up Denny!

800 yards is nothing to write home about, and everyone was still all about him after 800 yards averaging less than 4 yards per carry the next season. It seems to me to just show how sorry AZ fan is when it comes to local heroes. There was no reason for people to get behind Kyle Vanden Bosch, either, but y'all just ate him up. All about him. I just don't get it.

You don't see a mass Nick Goings movement in Carolina or a bunch of writers in the SJ Merc talking about how Nick Goings just needs a chance to start 16 games...

 

[Duckjake]

800 yards is nothing to write home about, and everyone was still all about him after 800 yards averaging less than 4 yards per carry the next season. It seems to me to just show how sorry AZ fan is when it comes to local heroes. There was no reason for people to get behind Kyle Vanden Bosch, either, but y'all just ate him up. All about him. I just don't get it.

You don't see a mass Nick Goings movement in Carolina or a bunch of writers in the SJ Merc talking about how Nick Goings just needs a chance to start 16 games...

Has Carolina gone 16 years without a back gaining over 800 yards and averaging 4.4 yards per carry? Has Carolina ever had Leland McElroy or LeShon Johnson as their starting Tailback? Has Carolina ever had their leading rusher average 2.9 yards per carry? When was the last time Carolina's leading rusher gained 424 yards?

Put in perspective 800 yards IS something to write home about when you are a Cardinal fan. Do you get it now? Our running game has been so horrific for so long that Marcel looks like Barry Sanders to us. Now please quit raining on our parade until we get used to the higher quality play that we expect Denny to bring us.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not okay to talk about Shipp, but it is ok to talk about Williams or Brown?

IN this context yes because we're talking about rookie RB's who allegedly had fumble problems in college. Arrington didn't have anywhere near 18 fumbles despite what the "friend who goes to Cal" says, and in fact all 3 RB's taken ahead of him in the high first round fumbled more in college than he did.

That's why I brought Williams and Brown into the thread, to counter the claim that Arrington has a history of fumble problems.

The kid fumbled three times in his first 6 games at Cal, he wasn't starting at the time so it wasn't in a lot of carries. People saw that, and that's been the label ever since. Nevermind in his next ~20 games he only fumbled 3 times, those first 6 games are what they all refer to.

 

[CaptTurbo]

I just dont see JJ's speed at all. Maybe on a track he is fast but on the NFL field he is not.

 

[kerouac9]

Has Carolina gone 16 years without a back gaining over 800 yards and averaging 4.4 yards per carry? Has Carolina ever had Leland McElroy or LeShon Johnson as their starting Tailback? Has Carolina ever had their leading rusher average 2.9 yards per carry? When was the last time Carolina's leading rusher gained 424 yards?

Put in perspective 800 yards IS something to write home about when you are a Cardinal fan. Do you get it now? Our running game has been so horrific for so long that Marcel looks like Barry Sanders to us. Now please quit raining on our parade until we get used to the higher quality play that we expect Denny to bring us.

I guess I just don't get that a lot of people here don't watch other teams. I don't understand how someone can watch Tiki Barber, LT, Priest Holmes, Warrick Dunn, etc., and then say, "Hey, Marcel Shipp can run with these guys for 17 weeks." Now that I understand that it's like if you ride a moped for 15 years, and then you get an El Camino, you think you're in a Ferarri.