Josh Apologists...

[CaliCards]

Amazing how at the begining of the season, some experts picked the Seahawks to get to the Super Bowl.

Now here we are in week 15, and the Cards, a team no one picked to make the playoff, has beaten the Seahawks once and lost to them in a close finish, in a game the Cards played poorly, yet many Cards fans believe a better Qb would have won us the game.

Then again, last season it was Blake's falult, and the season before, it was Jake.....

 

[Rats]

Anyone attempting to pin this loss solely on Josh is a moron.

...........and yet there have been several morons that have tried.

 

[Red Dawn]

Josh is a third year rookie. I thought he was progressing normally for a rookie...then this Big Ben kid busts a move and totally screws up the learning curve, kinda like the brainiac in math class who screws up the grading curve for everyone else. I am not anointing Josh the starter, bring in a FA to compete. But it wouldnt surprise me if Josh ends up being the man.

In spite of all thats happened this season I dont think many people can argue that we have seen a huge improvement in our overall competitiveness and the future looks good.

DG Rules! Josh MIGHT be the man! Emmitt MIGHT be done! The SEZ rocks! Bring on the Buccs!

 

[Duckjake]

Chad Pennington 3rd year starter after two seasons on the bench.

2000 nyj | 2 | 2 5 40.0 67 13.4 1 0 |
2001 nyj | 2 | 10 20 50.0 92 4.6 1 0 |


| 2002 nyj | 15 | 276 399 69.2 3120 7.8 22 6 | 104 passer rating.

Playoffs:

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
2002 ind W,41-0 | 19 25 222 3 0 | 1 3 0
2002 oak L,10-30 | 21 47 183 1 2 | 2 3 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 40 72 405 4 2 | 3 6 0

 

[Renz]

Josh is a third year rookie. I thought he was progressing normally for a rookie...then this Big Ben kid busts a move and totally screws up the learning curve, kinda like the brainiac in math class who screws up the grading curve for everyone else.

This is funny because Pittsburgh is 28th in passing offense and Josh gets BBQ'd for us being 23rd.

Roethlisberger only has to throw about 20 times a game and get out of Bettis's way and he is the second coming of Unitas. Roethlisberger is "good" because he has a good team around him. You can't compare the two IMO.

 

[Duckjake]

Josh McCown 3rd year starter after 2 seasons on the bench:

2002 ari | 2 | 7 18 38.9 66 3.7 0 2 |
| 2003 ari | 10 | 95 165 57.6 1018 6.2 5 6 |


| 2004 ari | 11 | 174 305 57.0 1861 6.1 6 7 | |

No playoffs.

It's tough to be a Cardinal QB.

 

[Evil Ash]

Chad Pennington 3rd year starter after two seasons on the bench.

2000 nyj | 2 | 2 5 40.0 67 13.4 1 0 |
2001 nyj | 2 | 10 20 50.0 92 4.6 1 0 |


| 2002 nyj | 15 | 276 399 69.2 3120 7.8 22 6 | 104 passer rating.

Playoffs:

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
2002 ind W,41-0 | 19 25 222 3 0 | 1 3 0
2002 oak L,10-30 | 21 47 183 1 2 | 2 3 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 40 72 405 4 2 | 3 6 0

and the returning theme continues ... he also had this Rb by the name of Curtis Martin (perennial pro bowler). You think that may have helped him?

BTW your stats for McCown don't include the last 2 weeks of playing. he has nearly 2400 yards passing even in missing 3 starts. His current numbers are...

13 games 217 completions 372 pass attempts 58.3% completion percentage 2396 yards 11 TDs 9 INTs

 

[conraddobler]

and the returning theme continues ... he also had this Rb by the name of Curtis Martin (perennial pro bowler). You think that may have helped him?

Hang in there the truth is out there..


It does get old hearing those comparisons over and over again.

We need to get tapes of sesame street and highlight about an hour of just which one is not like the other.

Cardinals , no run game terrible defense.... Jets, good defense, above average run game..

Pittsburg...... Good defense, great run game.

Chargers this year.... Good Defense, great run game...

This is a theme.

 

[Duckjake]

and the returning theme continues ... he also had this Rb by the name of Curtis Martin (perennial pro bowler). You think that may have helped him?

Ah, but Curtis Martin had the fewest carries and fewest yards of his career that season barely getting over 1000 yards. His per carry average was only 1.2 feet more than what Smith has had this year. Hardly enough to make that much difference in the QB's play.

In 2002 Laveranues Coles had the best year of his career so far as the Jets went 9-7.

In 2003 Martin rushes for over 1300 yards but Pennington gets hurt and the Jets fall to 6-10.

 

[Duckjake]

Hang in there the truth is out there..


It does get old hearing those comparisons over and over again.

We need to get tapes of sesame street and highlight about an hour of just which one is not like the other.

Cardinals , no run game terrible defense.... Jets, good defense, above average run game..

Pittsburg...... Good defense, great run game.

Chargers this year.... Good Defense, great run game...

This is a theme.

The Jets defense ranked 24th in the league in yards allowed in 2002.

They improved to 20th in 2003 when they finished 6-10.

 

[conraddobler]

The Jets defense ranked 24th in the league in yards allowed in 2002.

They improved to 20th in 2003 when they finished 6-10.

Good point so who should be our QB?

 

[Evil Ash]

Ah, but Curtis Martin had the fewest carries and fewest yards of his career that season barely getting over 1000 yards. His per carry average was only 1.2 feet more than what Smith has had this year. Hardly enough to make that much difference in the QB's play.

In 2002 Laveranues Coles had the best year of his career so far as the Jets went 9-7.

In 2003 Martin rushes for over 1300 yards but Pennington gets hurt and the Jets fall to 6-10.

Running game is part of the equation and even though he had a rough year Curtis Martin was still a threat. Emmitt and his running sideways routine today was not (most teams do NOT fear Emmitt). You don't think that makes a difference? Which team's play action fake is going to fool the defense, one which has a threat (even if not playing well), or one that is viewed as too slow and isn't much of one?

The reason that they went 6-10 last year was their horrific defense. Not because Pennington was hurt

 

[Duckjake]

Running game is part of the equation and even though he had a rough year Curtis Martin was still a threat. Emmitt and his running sideways routine today was not (most teams do NOT fear Emmitt). You don't think that makes a difference? Which team's play action fake is going to fool the defense, one which has a threat (even if not playing well), or one that is viewed as too slow and isn't much of one?

The reason that they went 6-10 last year was their horrific defense. Not because Pennington was hurt

I believe their defense ranked 8th in scoring and 20th in yards last season.

But anyway I thought you guys would realize I was pulling your leg when I made the reference to a 1.2 foot difference in rushing between Martin and Smith.

Even though Martin's numbers were down the threat was still there. We have no rushing threat so team's can concentrate on blitzing or keeping their safeties back in coverage.

Until they have to game plan against our potential for a 28 carry 130 yard day from our RB or that he'll burn their blitzes with a draw for 60 and a TD no Cardinal QB will have a chance.

Of course we won't get that 130 every week, as even the best only average around 90-95, but we must have that potential any particular Sunday.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is funny because Pittsburgh is 28th in passing offense and Josh gets BBQ'd for us being 23rd.

Roethlisberger only has to throw about 20 times a game and get out of Bettis's way and he is the second coming of Unitas. Roethlisberger is "good" because he has a good team around him. You can't compare the two IMO.

Passing YARDAGE, not offense. as you say he doesn't throw the ball as much as other qb's. As I mentioned on another thread, he never gets to put up garbage stats, or really pad his stats because they get ahead, and then run out the clock. Josh had 101 more attempts when behind this year than Ben before today's games. That works both ways, Ben doesn't get into MUST pass situations, but he also never sees soft zones or prevents.

It's an unusual situation, nobody believes WE would be 14-1 if we had Ben, but if it's the team that is the key how come they had a losing record LAST season?

 

[Stout]

McCown showed a few good plays mixed in with AT LEAST 6-10 horrific ones. Not a good ratio, IMO. Of course he didn't lose the game on his own---we had a pretty bad defensive collapse---but he sure in the heck didn't hold onto the ball in the least, or *gasp* score, to take the pressure of the D when they needed it either. And he DID cost us at least a tie by taking us out of FG range. And...well, the list of negatives could go on for quite a while.

 

[john h]

I think Bledsoe will be available as will Johnson. Kitna most certainly could lead this team--do you think he couldn't?

I would like Bledsloe but do not think he will be available. He is playing well. He would sure be a major upgrade over anything we have on the horizon.

 

[TRW]

I don't want Kitna.

I was OK with the idea of Kitna for a while but I don't think he's that much of an upgrade from Josh. He is prone to the INT too much for my tastes.

No thanks.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I still believe Josh is going to be great...he is a young QB and is developing pretty good. Yes, he needs to have a little better vision and get rid of the ball faster, but we do get many flashes of what is to come if we stick with him.

I guarantee that next year we will win 9-10 games an McCown will lead us there.

Have a little faith and patience, this team was 4-12 and in its first year with DG and had a chance to win a lot of games. Its frustrating but you must have faith.

Besides, Josh is not the only one to blame here for our season, there has been very questionable play calling during games from Alex Wood and some head coaching moves that have left a lot of us scratching our head...

 

[john h]

Any QB with a decent Oline and a killer RB would be good. We need some blocking fair and square. Bledsoe sucked until he got some blocking. Last year he had no blocking period. Or any WR's besides moulds. And he sucked. This year is different. Josh will be fine with a decent O-line. Give Green a chance to make the right changes.

I think Green will make the right change and Josh will not be the starter next year. I would venture a guess that it is a 75% probability Josh will not be the starter next year. Green does not like to be embarrassed or humillliated and he will not chance another year like this one and open himself up to further criticism. He will go on the open market or make a trade for a QB. I had read but do not know that Graves wanted to draft a QB last year as he did not have confidence in McCown as a starter. If this is true you can bet he will have a strong input this year considering our total lack of offensive production.

 

[CaptTurbo]

I guarantee that next year we will win 9-10 games an McCown will lead us there.
...

how much you willing to bet?