Jurecki reports Saints/Cards deal on the table

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Geez man! Maybe he's not going that high because people who work evaluating talent for a living don't think he's as good! I mean when was the last time that the first STUD DE ever possibly could have dropped down below 5? Think about it and maybe you'll realize that your bias being an ASU student is clouding your vision a little bit.

No, Beef is right. Pass rushing specialists are a very hot commodity in the NFL and very very hard to find. I do not buy into the 40 times crap, but I will tell you this, something has scared teams away and it is the equivelant of an NBA team being scared of drafting a 7 footer-IT JUST DOESNT HAPPEN!

I think Suggs can be a force int he NFL, but ti will take some time and he will not get 12-14 sacks his rookie year like some of you seem to think.

 

[Lex]

If Suggs is gone, I might consider trading down. That's the only reason I'd even consider it. The quality in this draft is very shallow, and if Suggs IS gone at #6, there will still be a top quality defensive player available.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
No, Beef is right. Pass rushing specialists are a very hot commodity in the NFL and very very hard to find. I do not buy into the 40 times crap, but I will tell you this, something has scared teams away and it is the equivelant of an NBA team being scared of drafting a 7 footer-IT JUST DOESNT HAPPEN!

I think Suggs can be a force int he NFL, but ti will take some time and he will not get 12-14 sacks his rookie year like some of you seem to think.

But are you willing to mortgage those 12-14 sacks in 2004 and the 8-10 sacks in 2003 for 5 sacks in 2003 with someone like McDougle to go along with 15 catches with someone like Washington?

 

[BW52]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Think of it this way: When was the last time the Cards had a Pro Bowl-caliber performer on D? Simeon Rice. That was three years ago. Is there anyone on this squad right now, on either side of the ball, with that kind of potential? No. When you don't have any great players, you don't trade down for more middling ones, you grab a catalyst that'll make the rest of them better.

You're not going to find that kind of player in the bottom third of the draft.

Leonard Davis,Lon Shelton,Adrian Wilson.Freddie Jones,Pete Kendall ,Duane Starks all have Pro Bowl potential.So you think no players picked after top 15 will be big impact players.How in the hell do you know?

 

[ChiCard]

Boss Bailey will be long gone by #18 so if you're supporting this trade, don't do it on the premise that he's the guy to take. He won't last past the Rams according to just about every media person.

 

[jw7]

Originally posted by BW52
Leonard Davis,Lon Shelton,Adrian Wilson.Freddie Jones,Pete Kendall ,Duane Starks all have Pro Bowl potential.So you think no players picked after top 15 will be big impact players.How in the hell do you know?

I think Big is a pro-bowler at Guard. At tackle, it remains to be seen.

Wilson does have potential.

Freddie Jones can be up there with a QB not named "Jake" that can actually see him wide-open in the end-zone.

I like Starks - he's good, but I don't think he is pro-bowl caliber. He falls for "jukes" too much.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by BW52
Leonard Davis,Lon Shelton,Adrian Wilson.Freddie Jones,Pete Kendall ,Duane Starks all have Pro Bowl potential.So you think no players picked after top 15 will be big impact players.How in the hell do you know?

How many Pro Bowlers are there in that list right now? It's not like they've racked up a lot of frequent flier miles up to now. If Kendall was going to go, he'd've been there by now. Starks was a great #2 CB and a decent #1, no way he goes. Shockey has a stranglehold on the NFC TE pro bowl spot for the next seven years, no matter what he does, and Adrian may be a stud, but no one knows who he is. He's not supplanting John Lynch anytime soon.

The players on our roster right now would have to have ridiculous seasons of overperformance to get to Honolulu. We need a game-breaker, and there aren't any in this draft (besides maybe McGahee) after #10. That's a fact.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9

The players on our roster right now would have to have ridiculous seasons of overperformance to get to Honolulu. We need a game-breaker, and there aren't any in this draft (besides maybe McGahee) after #10. That's a fact.

If the team won 10-12 games and was on tv a lot we'd get players in the Pro Bowl. Good teams get Pro Bowlers, bad teams don't.

Once you're a "pro bowler" you can even have bad years and still get voted into the game.

 

[BW52]

Originally posted by kerouac9
How many Pro Bowlers are there in that list right now? It's not like they've racked up a lot of frequent flier miles up to now. If Kendall was going to go, he'd've been there by now. Starks was a great #2 CB and a decent #1, no way he goes. Shockey has a stranglehold on the NFC TE pro bowl spot for the next seven years, no matter what he does, and Adrian may be a stud, but no one knows who he is. He's not supplanting John Lynch anytime soon.

The players on our roster right now would have to have ridiculous seasons of overperformance to get to Honolulu. We need a game-breaker, and there aren't any in this draft (besides maybe McGahee) after #10. That's a fact.

You are entitled to your opinion.I guess we will agree to disagree.

 

[BW52]

Originally posted by kerouac9
How many Pro Bowlers are there in that list right now? It's not like they've racked up a lot of frequent flier miles up to now. If Kendall was going to go, he'd've been there by now. Starks was a great #2 CB and a decent #1, no way he goes. Shockey has a stranglehold on the NFC TE pro bowl spot for the next seven years, no matter what he does, and Adrian may be a stud, but no one knows who he is. He's not supplanting John Lynch anytime soon.

The players on our roster right now would have to have ridiculous seasons of overperformance to get to Honolulu. We need a game-breaker, and there aren't any in this draft (besides maybe McGahee) after #10. That's a fact.

Potential is all the rookies have so far.Nothing else.Nobody has proven a thing in the pros.

 

[Ed B]

If the Bears got both of the Jets' first rounders for the #4, there's no way in hell we should be throwing in a conditional pick.

If the cards make this trade, which I am ambivalent about (I will be happy no matter what they decide.....there are benefits to either strategy) they better make it straight up, the #6 for the first rounders.

 

[AntSports Steve]

The NEP winning the superbowl proves that you don't need superstars to win. You need a team that plays together with above average talent.

Besides, I still don't think any of the players available at #6 are a for lock stud.

 

[40yearfan]

<h1>KEEP #6---DRAFT SUGGS </h1>

 

[CardinalChris]

ESPN said most teams think about 10 players in this draft even carry a FIRST ROUND GRADE. This is not a great draft to be trading down. Take Suggs and move on.

 

[EndZone]

Originally posted by Ed B
If the Bears got both of the Jets' first rounders for the #4, there's no way in hell we should be throwing in a conditional pick.

If the cards make this trade, which I am ambivalent about (I will be happy no matter what they decide.....there are benefits to either strategy) they better make it straight up, the #6 for the first rounders.

The reports on KDUS say the Bears will throw in a later round pick. I still say NO WAY NO HOW!

 

[Lars the Red]

The one thing that I've been hearing on this board for the last several months is 'trade down and get more picks'. Well, depending on how this offer is really structured, I'd say it makes total sense.

We are not one player away from being a good team. Suggs, for all the potential he may bring, still isn't a sure thing in this league. His less than exciting 40, his less than average bench, his less than exciting shuttle, his somewhat smallish size bring so many things into question. He may be a force in the league for years, but if we can put 2 mid first rounders into the mix, we will be better off in the immediate future. We lack quality and depth at so many positions. We could add an immediate contributor to both the offense and defense with those two picks.

I would do the deal.

 

[AzCards21]

If the deal is straight up 17&18 for 6. TAKE IT! We can get two very good players there and fill more holes. Suggs has the same gaurantee of being a super stud that came with Jones.

If anyone has the time could you post the sack leaders from last year and their draft positions? Thanks. I think it would be interesting.

 

[CatBoxBackFan]

Jason Taylor 18.5 SACKS 3rd rd draft

Simeon Rice 15.5 Sacks 1st rd

Dwight Freeney 13.0 sacks 1st rd

 

[Lars the Red]

This is not a Nebraska plug, but does anyone remember Suggs numbers against the Big Red? 2 uat, 2 at, 0 sacks playing against a redshirt freshman tackle that likely will be moved to the interior during his career. Suggs did get penetration on several plays, but didn't have the speed to catch Nebraska's QB.

I really like Suggs in many ways, but I would much rather have numbers and lower signing bonuses than a guy that could be overmatched in the NFL.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Lars the Red
This is not a Nebraska plug, but does anyone remember Suggs numbers against the Big Red? 2 uat, 2 at, 0 sacks playing against a redshirt freshman tackle that likely will be moved to the interior during his career. Suggs did get penetration on several plays, but didn't have the speed to catch Nebraska's QB.

I really like Suggs in many ways, but I would much rather have numbers and lower signing bonuses than a guy that could be overmatched in the NFL.

I think Incognito's moving to guard. There was some talk of moving him to center???

Richie's going to be a dominant guard in a couple of years. He's about the only bright spot on that line.

 

[KingofCards]

I say pull the trigger, two quality guys instead of one great one.

This team needs talent at more than one position. If a guy goes in the first round, he has talent.

I am a Suggian, but I would be happy if we traded down and got two. Just don't include that 2nd rounder from next year. Although S.D. is going to owe us a pick for Boston, that would replace the lost pick.

 

[Houdini]

In 1986 Bill Walsh of the 49ers traded down twice in the first 29 picks, didn't have a first-round pick, and came away with a group of eight players that helped produce Super Bowl championships for the 49ers in 1989 and 1990.

 

[CardinalChris]

And Chicago did it in 99 with McNown and got crap for it. I can name time after time trading down did NOT work. One amazing draft 16 years ago does not mean trading down always worked.... a lot of that was a little thing called the "west coast offense".

 

[AzCards21]

Originally posted by CatBoxBackFan
Jason Taylor 18.5 SACKS 3rd rd draft

Simeon Rice 15.5 Sacks 1st rd

Dwight Freeney 13.0 sacks 1st rd

Thanks Catbox, I thought I would see a whole bunch of 3rd and later picks. What do I know eh.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I predicted yesterday that we'll make that trade(#1's only)and take Taylor Jacobs and Mcdougal/Haynes.You could tell by the wya Graves was talking that he wants to trade down.