just curious

[Mainstreet]

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't make that point clear I guess. I was comparing my preference for Tyson over Eric's proposal regarding Carmelo. One of the advantages of pursuing Tyson instead of Anthony is that his contract is much better.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were doing some new math.

Tyson Chandler can make a difference to a contender. I view Anthony as a negative, so I guess we agree.

I have confidence in our front office (feels good to say that) so I wouldn't be surprised to see them avoid any deal that costs us one of our core players. We were just dismantled by a Spurs team and some people pointed to coaching experience as the difference and perhaps that's the case but there is no substitute for simply playing together as a unit. I really think we are on the path to contender status without making any huge moves. Keep this exact team together for two or three more years and I think they are legitimate championship contenders just from growth within. And with our picks we have a pretty fair chance of finding a Reggie Jackson or a Paul George or an Andre Drummond or an Isaiah Thomas along the way.

I agree. The Suns have a more than a fair chance to come up with some sleepers in the draft but I think they will use some picks to go after a proven commodity. Having McDonough as GM as given me new confidence as a Suns fan.

 

[Phrazbit]

No way. I honestly dont think that even makes us a better team in the short term. Melo is a cancer and a stat padder. A superb individual talent but I think he diminishes the returns of those around him.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Well I was expecting a negative reaction, but the intensity of it is a surprise. I guess Anthony's reputation is even worse than I thought.

Reputation??? It's not just a rep, the dude has never won in the NBA. He's a living, breathing black hole and would kill all of the momentum and mojo the Suns have.
I gotta believe Ryan Mac and Horny are way too smart to bring in a dysfunctional misfit like Mello...


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[devilalum]

I also say hell no to Anthony. He is an over rated team cancer. I would keep their nucleus of Dragic, Bledsoe and Plumlee together. In 1992 I hated to see Hornacek go but to get Barkley I was fine with that. I would make that trade for Kevin Love if he became available. I think he would fit in well with this team

You put Love on this team without giving up any of our key pieces and the Suns rebuild is over. A trade for Love at this point would be about as similar to the Barkley trade as you can get.

I'd send Len, Morriseses, 3 first rounders and Okafor's salary for Love. If they trade Love they're looking to start over. That's 6 young players to begin the process. Who can offer a package better than that?

 

[SirStefan32]

I would not want Anthony for free. I'd probably give them Frye and Okafor in exchange for Anthony and a first-round pick, and then not extend Anthony.

 

[SirStefan32]

You put Love on this team without giving up any of our key pieces and the Suns rebuild is over. A trade for Love at this point would be about as similar to the Barkley trade as you can get.

I'd send Len, Morriseses, 3 first rounders and Okafor's salary for Love. If they trade Love they're looking to start over. That's 6 young players to begin the process. Who can offer a package better than that?

Wolves have no use for Len. I'd send Frye, Morris twins, Green, and 3 first rounders. I would probably be willing to include Bledsoe instead of Green and first-rounders.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Wolves have no use for Len. I'd send Frye, Morris twins, Green, and 3 first rounders. I would probably be willing to include Bledsoe instead of Green and first-rounders.

You would send Bledsoe, Marcus, Markieff and Frye for Love? I don't think I'd give up Bledsoe for Love. And I'm not sure I'd even give up the twins for Love unless our training staff wanted him and we were able to lock him up long term. As it is, we get far more bang for the buck from the twins than they do from Love. Other than Lebron, I wouldn't gut this team for any single player. All you'd have is one unhappy star.

Steve

 

[Folster]

Eric, you could have gotten your question answered here.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f7/melo-202052.html

 

[Folster]

Let's say the Knicks have decided their season is lost, and Carmelo Anthony makes it known that he's planning to opt out and jump ship this summer. Somehow his agent lets it be known that Anthony would be amenable to signing an extension in Phoenix. Do you make this trade?

Phoenix gets
Carmelo Anthony (21.5, player option 2015)

New York gets
Emeka Okafor (14.5, 2014)
Markieff Morris (2.2, RFA 2015)
Marcus Morris (2.1, RFA 2015)
PHO first-round pick 2014
another future (2015 or 16) mid- to late-first-round pick

Why give up any assets to get Melo, when we can simply sign him this offseason. He has a player option this summer that many expect him to not exercise and explore free agency. We saw NY give up a ton of assets to get Melo from Denver when they would have signed him a few months later with the cap space they had. I don't see McDonough being that impatient.

 

[Mainstreet]

You would send Bledsoe, Marcus, Markieff and Frye for Love? I don't think I'd give up Bledsoe for Love. And I'm not sure I'd even give up the twins for Love unless our training staff wanted him and we were able to lock him up long term. As it is, we get far more bang for the buck from the twins than they do from Love. Other than Lebron, I wouldn't gut this team for any single player. All you'd have is one unhappy star.

Steve

Thank you. I was lost after the mention of Bledsoe for Love. I like the construction of the new Suns. Under the right circumstance I would like for the Suns to add a star but not at the cost of giving up a rising star in Bledsoe. Does anything good come out of the T-Wolves?

 

[SirStefan32]

You would send Bledsoe, Marcus, Markieff and Frye for Love? I don't think I'd give up Bledsoe for Love. And I'm not sure I'd even give up the twins for Love unless our training staff wanted him and we were able to lock him up long term. As it is, we get far more bang for the buck from the twins than they do from Love. Other than Lebron, I wouldn't gut this team for any single player. All you'd have is one unhappy star.

Steve

Well, in principle, yes. We'd need a real SG, backup PG, and a combo forward, obviously. I wasn't really coming up with an exact trade. Wolves don't have a whole lot of players that interest me. Brewer is OK, but he doesn't provide anything that Tucker/ Green/ and even Goodwin don't. Cunningham is an interesting backup combo forward, Shved might be an OK backup point, though I'd probably just try to get Telfair back to Phoenix. Dieng is really the only one that interests me.
Third team would probably need to be involved, or Marcus would need to stay. On that note- the whole "twin" thing is a little creepy- they are grown men, and there is no reason they have to play together to play well.

You may not want to trade Bledsoe for Love straight-up, but I guarantee you that you'd never face such a decision because nobody in their right mind would offer you Kevin Love for Eric Bledsoe.

Anyway, here is my thinking:

1. I am not sold on Bledsoe. Sorry folks, but he is not KJ. He is an undersized shooting guard that can't shoot. Dragic is making him look better than he is, and he is really not making anyone around him look better. I am not denying he is an amazing one on one defender, nor am I denying he is by far the best Suns player when it comes to getting to the rim. I am simply saying that the Suns will be overpaying a lot for what he brings to the table. It's easier to find a SG to play with Dragic than it will be to find a combo guard to play with Bledsoe.

2. Love is BY FAR the best player on either roster, so nobody on the Suns roster in untouchable when it comes to acquiring K-Love.

3. Once you have Love, there is zero need for Frye. Love can shoot just as well (more consistently too) while being able to score in the low post, and is one of the best rebounders in the league (possibly THE BEST). There is only 96 minutes to go around on 4/5 spots, and in theory, that would be taken up by Love, Plumlee, and Len. I don't know where you find any significant time for Markief. I am also assuming one of our picks would be a big man.

4. Once you have Love, it's easier to get the remaining pieces via draft/ trades. You really don't need to find a star- you just need guys who can defend, make jumpers, and run fast breaks.

You have your point guard- Dragic, you have your Center rotation (Plumlee, Len), you have your star at PF (Love), and you have a decent SF rotation with Tucker and Green- both can defend, and hit an open jumper (Tucker is better defensively, Green is a better scorer/ shooter). You need a SG, back-up PG, another swingman, and another big man, just in case. I am confident you'll be able to find those things in trades, free agency, draft, etc.

Disclaimer:
I am not 100% sold on Kevin Love, but I don't see another player of that caliber the Suns could acquire in the next year or so.

 

[SirStefan32]

Thank you. I was lost after the mention of Bledsoe for Love. I like the construction of the new Suns. Under the right circumstance I would like for the Suns to add a star but not at the cost of giving up a rising star in Bledsoe. Does anything good come out of the T-Wolves?

He is not a star, rising or otherwise. He is an undersized shooting guard that can't shoot! Love is averaging 26 points, 14 rebounds, and 4 assists per game.
He ranks first in rebounding, third in scoring, fifth in FTAs in the entire league, and leads all big men (PF&C) in assists. I am not a big fan of advanced stats, PER, etc, but I'd guess that outside of James, Durant, and Paul, there is no player more complete and efficient than Love.

He is not perfect, and I am very concerned with his D, but he is clearly head and shoulders above Bledsoe. If you guys think Bledsoe is worth a Kevin Love-type player, you are such homers that you put Tommy Heinsohn to shame.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You may not want to trade Bledsoe for Love straight-up, but I guarantee you that you'd never face such a decision because nobody in their right mind would offer you Kevin Love for Eric Bledsoe.

2. Love is BY FAR the best player on either roster, so nobody on the Suns roster in untouchable when it comes to acquiring K-Love.

I'd agree that the idea of preferring Bledsoe over Love would be a huge stretch for most of the league but I don't think it will be for long. I really think Eric is on his way to becoming a top 10 player, maybe even top 5. I don't think he's the second coming of KJ but I do believe he will be a better all around player than Kevin before too much longer. Keep in mind that KJ didn't tear up the NBA world his first year in Phoenix either. Bledsoe can be incredibly disruptive on defense and once he perfects his mid-range game he'll be a two way force out there.

It's interesting though to look at their team and ours. Minnesota already has a decent point guard and they already have a top 10 center and they have Love but they're 4.5 games behind us. How do you explain this given the negative reviews you've presented for most of this team (except Plumlee and Dragic, IIRC) especially considering your statement that Love is "by far" the best player on either team. Something doesn't seem to add up. Also, if it's that easy to build around him why haven't they been able to? I know you're not really in love with Love but I do think you're undervaluing most of the players on this team. I think just about every player we have is still well below their ceiling and they're already pretty effective.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

He is not a star, rising or otherwise. He is an undersized shooting guard that can't shoot! Love is averaging 26 points, 14 rebounds, and 4 assists per game.
He ranks first in rebounding, third in scoring, fifth in FTAs in the entire league, and leads all big men (PF&C) in assists. I am not a big fan of advanced stats, PER, etc, but I'd guess that outside of James, Durant, and Paul, there is no player more complete and efficient than Love.

He is not perfect, and I am very concerned with his D, but he is clearly head and shoulders above Bledsoe. If you guys think Bledsoe is worth a Kevin Love-type player, you are such homers that you put Tommy Heinsohn to shame.

I don't claim to be an expert when it comes to identifying basketball talent. I'm just a fan and I have no special insight in this area. Because of this, I'll admit my opinion sometimes gets sculpted by others. In this case, much of what I say about Bledsoe comes from listening to the basketball analysts from the opposing teams we play. They talk about him like he's about to be the next big thing. They rave about his impact on both ends of the court and they all lament the fact we stole him from the Clippers for almost nothing.

Steve

 

[95pro]

Love does pad stats. I wonder how many "gimme" rebounds he has a game. You know where there's a defensive rebound and there's nothing but wolves players hanging around waiting for the ball to come down, and by default Love gets the rebound.

 

[JS22]

Not sure if this thread is serious....

...or if Eric is dipping into the special eggnog.

 

[elindholm]

Not sure if this thread is serious....

...or if Eric is dipping into the special eggnog.

Maybe you should re-read it.

 

[SirStefan32]

I'd agree that the idea of preferring Bledsoe over Love would be a huge stretch for most of the league but I don't think it will be for long. I really think Eric is on his way to becoming a top 10 player, maybe even top 5. I don't think he's the second coming of KJ but I do believe he will be a better all around player than Kevin before too much longer. Keep in mind that KJ didn't tear up the NBA world his first year in Phoenix either. Bledsoe can be incredibly disruptive on defense and once he perfects his mid-range game he'll be a two way force out there.

It's interesting though to look at their team and ours. Minnesota already has a decent point guard and they already have a top 10 center and they have Love but they're 4.5 games behind us. How do you explain this given the negative reviews you've presented for most of this team (except Plumlee and Dragic, IIRC) especially considering your statement that Love is "by far" the best player on either team. Something doesn't seem to add up. Also, if it's that easy to build around him why haven't they been able to? I know you're not really in love with Love but I do think you're undervaluing most of the players on this team. I think just about every player we have is still well below their ceiling and they're already pretty effective.

Steve

I don't dispute that Bledsoe is an outstanding defender, and unstoppable going to the rim. I don't even dislike Bledsoe. All I am saying is that he is NOT a point guard. He is an extremely undersized shooting guard that can't shoot. There is a place for guys like that, but they are not worth what the Suns will end up paying for him. You are one of my favorite posters here- I have always enjoyed reading your posts/ analysis, but on this one, I just don't see it. Bledsoe a top 10 player? Top 5? I don't see it.

As far as Love goes, you'll notice that several times in several different posts, I mentioned my concern about Love not being able to carry the team into the playoffs. In his defense, Rubio can't shoot, and Martin is just not a very smart player when game is on the line. I still think he should be able to carry that team into playoffs.

I don't think I presented negative reviews of our own players. Let's use Bledsoe as an example.
"Bledsoe is unstoppable getting to the rim, and he is a great defender, but he is not a PG, and at the end of the day he is a shooting guard who can't shoot. I'd pay him what we pay Dragic and not a dollar more."
I don't see that as a negative review. I see it as a very realistic and objective review.

Frye- when his shot is falling, he is unstoppable. When his shot is not falling, he is a huge liability on offense. He is a terrible defender, and a very poor rebounder for someone who is 6'11. I don't think that's a negative review.

Dragic- outstanding leader, at times completely unstoppable, very high basketball IQ. Not assertive enough, not a great shooter, good, but not a great defender.

I don't understand what's so "negative" about any of that. I try to remain objective. I like just about everyone on the roster. Frye, the basketball player, is probably the only exception. Frye the person seems to be awesome- everyone who ever played with him has nothing but great things to say about him, but I just cannot stand him as a basketball player. 6'11 guy who plays like a shooting guard (stretch 4 is fine if able to play some defense, and grab some rebounds.)

I love Dragic, Plumlee is probably my favorite player in the entire league, Tucker was my favorite Sun prior to Plumlee, Bledsoe is one hell of a defender, and amazing going to the rim, I really like our rookies and am excited to see how they develop. Morris twins are twice the players they were last year- Markief looks a little less like frye and a little more like a legitimate PF, and Marcus is much more aggressive, and his defense looks better. Slava, Ish, and Christmas are what they are- scrubs. I don't dislike them, they are just really bad players who don't belong in the league.

Oh, that leaves Green. Yeah, can't stand him. Don't like ball hogs with no basketball IQ. I do recognize a guy like that is indeed good to have on your team- bring him in off the bench and if he is on, he'll provide some instant offense. If he's not on, let him rot on the bench some more.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't dispute that Bledsoe is an outstanding defender, and unstoppable going to the rim. I don't even dislike Bledsoe. All I am saying is that he is NOT a point guard. He is an extremely undersized shooting guard that can't shoot. There is a place for guys like that, but they are not worth what the Suns will end up paying for him. You are one of my favorite posters here- I have always enjoyed reading your posts/ analysis, but on this one, I just don't see it. Bledsoe a top 10 player? Top 5? I don't see it.

As far as Love goes, you'll notice that several times in several different posts, I mentioned my concern about Love not being able to carry the team into the playoffs. In his defense, Rubio can't shoot, and Martin is just not a very smart player when game is on the line. I still think he should be able to carry that team into playoffs.

I don't think I presented negative reviews of our own players. Let's use Bledsoe as an example.
"Bledsoe is unstoppable getting to the rim, and he is a great defender, but he is not a PG, and at the end of the day he is a shooting guard who can't shoot. I'd pay him what we pay Dragic and not a dollar more."
I don't see that as a negative review. I see it as a very realistic and objective review.

Frye- when his shot is falling, he is unstoppable. When his shot is not falling, he is a huge liability on offense. He is a terrible defender, and a very poor rebounder for someone who is 6'11. I don't think that's a negative review.

Dragic- outstanding leader, at times completely unstoppable, very high basketball IQ. Not assertive enough, not a great shooter, good, but not a great defender.

I don't understand what's so "negative" about any of that. I try to remain objective. I like just about everyone on the roster. Frye, the basketball player, is probably the only exception. Frye the person seems to be awesome- everyone who ever played with him has nothing but great things to say about him, but I just cannot stand him as a basketball player. 6'11 guy who plays like a shooting guard (stretch 4 is fine if able to play some defense, and grab some rebounds.)

I love Dragic, Plumlee is probably my favorite player in the entire league, Tucker was my favorite Sun prior to Plumlee, Bledsoe is one hell of a defender, and amazing going to the rim, I really like our rookies and am excited to see how they develop. Morris twins are twice the players they were last year- Markief looks a little less like frye and a little more like a legitimate PF, and Marcus is much more aggressive, and his defense looks better. Slava, Ish, and Christmas are what they are- scrubs. I don't dislike them, they are just really bad players who don't belong in the league.

Oh, that leaves Green. Yeah, can't stand him. Don't like ball hogs with no basketball IQ. I do recognize a guy like that is indeed good to have on your team- bring him in off the bench and if he is on, he'll provide some instant offense. If he's not on, let him rot on the bench some more.

I wasn't trying to cheap shot you there it just seems to me that you're still talking about these guys the same way you were last year. In general, you've seemed to be mostly negative when you talk about the individual players. If I'm misrepresenting you it's not intentional.

As for Green, I've watched several interviews involving him and also involving Jeff. The one thing that is stated over and again is that the easiest way for Green to get in Jeff's doghouse is to pass up shots. He wants Green to shoot the ball, period. I agree his basketball IQ is on the low side but I'd say the same is true about many of our players.

I love Tucker but he's no rookie and time and again he'll grab a board and then try to put it back up even though he's already surrounded by the trees. How smart is that? Bledsoe threw up a quick three when everyone on the court knew it was time to work the clock. Markieff gets up into the other guys face the play after the referee just separated them. Again, this team is not overly gifted with basketball smarts. But as I said before, we are early in the process of developing these guys and we're already winning. A lot of somebodies are doing something right and I think Bledsoe is at the top of that list.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

He is not a star, rising or otherwise. He is an undersized shooting guard that can't shoot! Love is averaging 26 points, 14 rebounds, and 4 assists per game.
He ranks first in rebounding, third in scoring, fifth in FTAs in the entire league, and leads all big men (PF&C) in assists. I am not a big fan of advanced stats, PER, etc, but I'd guess that outside of James, Durant, and Paul, there is no player more complete and efficient than Love.

He is not perfect, and I am very concerned with his D, but he is clearly head and shoulders above Bledsoe. If you guys think Bledsoe is worth a Kevin Love-type player, you are such homers that you put Tommy Heinsohn to shame.

I believe Bledsoe is a star on the rise and he will only get better.

How far has Love carried the T-Wolves?

I'm not saying Love is not a legit star but I think his stats are inflated by playing on a bad team.

 

[TJ]

I believe Bledsoe is a star on the rise and he will only get better.

How far has Love carried the T-Wolves?

How far do you expect Love to carry the T-Wolves by himself? He's pretty much the franchise. Pekovic is a nice center and Rubio is a decent PG, but after that, the rest of their roster is trash and the coaching has been suspect.

I think with the abundance of young talent on the Suns, a guy like Love would propel the team from a fringe playoff team to a top four western conference team.

 

[elindholm]

Frye- when his shot is falling, he is unstoppable. When his shot is not falling, he is a huge liability on offense. He is a terrible defender, and a very poor rebounder for someone who is 6'11. I don't think that's a negative review.

It is. Frye is okay as an interior defender. Not great, certainly, and maybe not above average, but certainly not terrible.

For rebounding, you're right that he's quite poor, but part of that could be due to how far he plays from the basket. His rebounding per minute is slightly better than Nowitzki's or Bargnani's, for example; of course I realize that that sets the bar pretty low.

Dragic- outstanding leader

Boy, I don't see that at all. His PG skills are better than Bledsoe's, but to me an "outstanding leader" is one who exudes calm when the going gets tough and whose body language inspires his teammates to relax and focus. I can't remember more than a couple of times in his career when I've seen Dragic assume the character of, "Stay cool, guys, we got this."

 

[PhxGametime]

If the Knicks had 3-4 potential 1st Rounders (like the Suns do) I could see the Suns Trade for Melo (with Picks coming our way) but no thanks otherwise!

I'm not really interested in Kevin Love either - with the type of deal it'd take to acquire him. IMO, he's closer to Amar'e (w/o athleticism), Melo, Van Horn, Coleman, L Johnson, Nowitzki, Z Randolph, Radja, Mashburn, G Robinson, R Anderson, etc. (players who put up great numbers).

I'd prefer: Durant, James, Aldridge, Horford, Ibaka, Drummond, Favors, Millsap, Bosh, Deng, etc. if the Suns went after PF - after KD, and James; all of those players would come cheaper via price tag on Trade.

Maybe it's just my opinion, but I'm guessing whoever gives up the Farm for Love, will regret it. I'd prefer to go after Greg Monroe for cheap (cost of Trade) and I'm not super high on him either.

 

[PhxGametime]

Love is solid but at realgm - there's talk about All 2014 Picks (4), Lakers '15 Pick, Alex Len, and Okafor.

I'd consider 2 Picks and Okafor (with one of Picks being Lakers) but 5 1st Rounders and Len is ridiculous!!

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I don't dispute that Bledsoe is an outstanding defender, and unstoppable going to the rim. I don't even dislike Bledsoe. All I am saying is that he is NOT a point guard. He is an extremely undersized shooting guard that can't shoot. There is a place for guys like that, but they are not worth what the Suns will end up paying for him. You are one of my favorite posters here- I have always enjoyed reading your posts/ analysis, but on this one, I just don't see it. Bledsoe a top 10 player? Top 5? I don't see it.

I can understand the concern with his some of his PG skills even though I think those things will improve with experience. What I don't understand is why you think he can't shoot. He is shooting almost 50% from the field and 36% from 3 despite a slow start from 3. Bledsoe also has a nice dribble pull up from mid range. Shooting is also something he will only get better at as his career progresses.



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