Just Say No

[Gee!]

We don't need Kobe or T-Mac.

This is a young team that needs time to gel. If we got Kobe, imagine how JJ's game will slip. If Marbury leaving helped JJ, Kobe will destroy him. Call me weird or whatever, but I have never liked T-Mac. I never understood the hype about him and his shoe commercials. T needs to have the ball in his hand and create his own shot, yet a zone defense will completely take him out his game.

Next year we will have Vujalnic for PG. Amare had down time with an infury. JJ will progress even more. Lampe is close to breaking out. Marion, well he needs to slash to the basket and not take so many 3's.

Pick up some depth and a solid high draft pick, and let it marinate.

 

[SweetD]

I would like to maybe look at Q from the Clipps. We will not as much cap space as Kobe and would be a nice 6th man or even play the two if JJ doesn't put it together. I think we could get him for around the same as R.Lewis in Seattle.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by SameOleGee

Pick up some depth and a solid high draft pick, and let it marinate.

 

[fordronken]

You're right. We shouldn't get a top 5 NBA superstar because it might hurt our inconsistent player who plays the same position and hasn't ever proven anything in a meaningful game.

 

[carey]

Originally posted by SameOleGee
Lampe is close to breaking out.

That was the first time he's played over 10 minutes!

 

[Chaplin]

Hmmm... let's see, what would I rather want?

Kobe Bryant?

or

JJ's game to slip?

Um, I'd rather have Kobe Bryant.

 

[Joe Mama]

As much as I like JJ the Phoenix Suns would be a better team with Kobe Bryant even if it means that JJ falls apart. If the Suns make a move for Quentin Richardson I'll throw up. He makes JJ look stable.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by fordronken
You're right. We shouldn't get a top 5 NBA superstar because it might hurt our inconsistent player who plays the same position and hasn't ever proven anything in a meaningful game.

Thank you for saving me the trouble of pointin this one out

 

[elindholm]

Lampe is close to breaking out.

Well, they don't have Clearasil in Poland, so he isn't accustomed to using it yet.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by elindholm
Lampe is close to breaking out.

Well, they don't have Clearasil in Poland, so he isn't accustomed to using it yet.

If we're talking that kind of "breaking out" then Lampe is already there.

Right after the trade I wasn't sure it would be a good idea to spend big money on Kobe Bryant. Now I'm completely sold that they should go for him. This team needs a guy like Kobe Bryant.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
If we're talking that kind of "breaking out" then Lampe is already there.

Right after the trade I wasn't sure it would be a good idea to spend big money on Kobe Bryant. Now I'm completely sold that they should go for him. This team needs a guy like Kobe Bryant.

Joe Mama

I am very encouraged by what I've seen of Lampe. Someone tried to argue that he was just Big Jake revised. Well, against the Clippers his only miss just rimmed out and Big Jake could not have even attempted any of the shots Lampe made. On defense, Lampe moves his feet as well or better than Voskuhl (I'm thinking better) with far less experience.

BTW, Lampe's development will impact the Suns off season planning. If he looks like he could become a starter sometime next year, the Suns may not need to worry about having the cap space to get starting center. It would make it easier to go for a guy like Kobe knowing that the Suns would not be forced to play Voskuhl and small ball.

Have I changed my mind? Slightly. Mostly I remain skeptical that the Kobe deal is in any way likely. I cannot remember a super star leaving his team through free agency to go from a big market to a much smaller market.

None the less, having an up and coming center to go with the Suns established "big three" makes them a lot more enticing than if they just had a journeyman like Jake. If Kobe wants to lead a different team to the top, it is a lot easier to believe it possible if the rest of the pieces are in place.
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Back to the question of Q Richardson, he is currently shooting only 41.1% from the field. Last year he only shot 37.2%.

He does some things very well including rebound, 6.5 rpg, but for a guy who gets a lot of put backs for points, his outside shooting leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[elindholm]

I cannot remember a super star leaving his team through free agency to go from a big market to a much smaller market.

I'd say that, in terms of market size, the drop down from Detroit to Orlando (Grant Hill) is roughly the same as that from Los Angeles to Phoenix.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
I cannot remember a super star leaving his team through free agency to go from a big market to a much smaller market.

I'd say that, in terms of market size, the drop down from Detroit to Orlando (Grant Hill) is roughly the same as that from Los Angeles to Phoenix.

Where is your smiley face?

Mostly I'm talking about people leaving New York and LA, but I take your point.

I'm not totally convinced that Grant Hill was first level super star when he made the move. In any case Detroit is bigger, but is hardly a major media market (they rank 8th in population)

5,456,428 Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint, MI CMSA
1,644,561 Orlando, FL MSA

But compare this to LA - Phoenix

16,373,645 Los Angeles-Riverside-Orange County, CA CMSA
3,251,876 Phoenix-Mesa, AZ MSA

Orlando is 30% of the population of Detroit, but Phoenix is only 19% of LA/Southern California.

Northwestern University Media Management Center

 

[slinslin]

Your numbers don't reflect the urban population of the city actually.



http://eire.census.gov/popest/data/cities/tables/SUB-EST2002-01.php

#2 Los Angeles 3.798k
#6 Phoenix 1.371k
#10 Detroit 925k
#106 Orlando 193k

By now Phoenix is likely #5 ahead of Philly.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I know I might be in the minority, but I do not see anythign about Kobe's FA plans involving the size of the market he will play in.

He already has a very established national fan base, and assuming the rape trial goes away, he will have little problem with endorsements. At the very least, the numbers he could get here and in LA wouldn't be different.

 

[slinslin]

I agree.

It is not like the size of the market is limited anyway. The NBA is a world wide product so the market is the same for all teams anyway as long as they have the product to be succesful in that market.

The city only matters if it comes to local fan support.

 

[Phill11]

All I gotta say about any player in the NBA....



JK.

I am not a hugh JJ Fan yet. He is streaky, and not clutch. I hope we don't give hima huge contract in the offseason. I would rather see that money go to a proven player. But heh, well see how the season turns out.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
I agree.

It is not like the size of the market is limited anyway. The NBA is a world wide product so the market is the same for all teams anyway as long as they have the product to be succesful in that market.

The city only matters if it comes to local fan support.

Kareem forced a trade from the Bucks to LA. Shaq forced a trade from Orlando to LA. Wilt Chamberlin forced a trade from the Sixers to LA. Sheed Wallace has said he wants to go to NY, even though they could only offer him mid cap.

I'm not saying it's rational, but it is just one of many reasons why I have a hard time believing that Kobe will leave LA. Maybe I'm wrong, but the elite players live in a different world than the rest of the NBA. Being in a media capital means a lot more exposure.

Obviously the ultimate issue will be if the Lakers soap opera is a bad as some reports make it out to be. I keep wondering how much of Kobe's complaints aren't just a way to minimize the damage of the trial while setting the Lakers up for an even bigger pay increase than they would like.

If Kobe is really serious, then he is not really limited to the teams with cap space. He CAN force the Lakers to make a trade unless they are prepared to watch him go and leave them empty handed.

As I've said elsewhere, I've upgraded the chances from impossible to extreme long shot. I'm not inclined to view it more optomistically without a lot more than just wishful thinking by Suns fans.

 

[slinslin]

Kareem and Wilt is so long ago you can't compare that to today. They were both pre Jordan era.

I doubt Rasheed will go to New York for less and if he does he is probably doing it because of the lifestyle and teammates and not the market.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
Kareem and Wilt is so long ago you can't compare that to today. They were both pre Jordan era.

I doubt Rasheed will go to New York for less and if he does he is probably doing it because of the lifestyle and teammates and not the market.

Realistically, there haven't been THAT many super stars move through FA or forced trades. Perhaps it is because I hate the LA Borg so much I just assume they do it all the time.

 

[Gee!]

I felt this way for awhile. But when Charles Barkley was on ch. 12 sports night and he said Kobe wasn't a superstar, just an good player. It prompted me to make this thread. I figure i'm in good company if I feel the same way as Chuck.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by slinslin
Your numbers don't reflect the urban population of the city actually.



http://eire.census.gov/popest/data/cities/tables/SUB-EST2002-01.php

#2 Los Angeles 3.798k
#6 Phoenix 1.371k
#10 Detroit 925k
#106 Orlando 193k

By now Phoenix is likely #5 ahead of Philly.

Yes, but I feel willing to bet that the majority of the seats in most NBA arenas are filled by suburbanites. On top of that Phoenix is not a normal population. We are a city full of transplants who may be casual Phoenix Suns supporters but not the diehard fans that fills cities like Detroit. This is also a fairly conservative city/state that will likely not jump immediately on the Kobe Bryant advertising opportunities.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Mostly I'm talking about people leaving New York and LA

Then say, "I cannot remember a super star leaving his team through free agency to go from New York or Los Angeles to a much smaller market."

Every time I disagree with you on a factual basis, you change your mind about what you were saying in the first place. It gets quite annoying.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Joe, does Kobe do local advertising in LA? Even before the trial? Eric, Chap, I really don't know, IM just curious.

I would assume that players of Kobe's level generally only do national ads, not local stuff.

I felt this way for awhile. But when Charles Barkley was on ch. 12 sports night and he said Kobe wasn't a superstar, just an good player. It prompted me to make this thread. I figure i'm in good company if I feel the same way as Chuck.

I really dont think that Charles is the know all of basketball. I mean hell, he was saying that the suns werent worth 300 million, let alone more than that. He says a lot of stuff, about 3% of it is true.

 

[elindholm]

Joe, does Kobe do local advertising in LA? Even before the trial?

Now that you mention it, I didn't see much. I don't always pay attention enough to know what is a national ad and what is a local one. But I think that O'Neal has always been much more of a local advertising presence.