Just Say No

[Gee!]

Originally posted by sly fly
That was the best rendition of "Flowers from Algernon" I've ever seen!

Whatever, Kobe still aint the cure for our whoa's. Colangelo will be around for 7 more years. It aint like the franchise will be sold next year. JC will get his NBA ring off Amare's back, thats where its comming from.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SameOleGee
Whatever, Kobe still aint the cure for our whoa's. Colangelo will be around for 7 more years. It aint like the franchise will be sold next year. JC will get his NBA ring off Amare's back, thats where its comming from.

You have no concept of what building a team actually is, do you? Amare by himself is NOT going to carry us to a title--it's a pleasant fantasy, but a fantasy nonetheless.

 

[cardsunsfan]

No Offense to SameOlGee but I second that.

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
...the best player in the game - which is laways the player the hoists the trophy up - I know we don't like to admit thisd - but Kob3 is the best player in the game - he could take us and Amare and Joe Johnsons to the Finals - we must get Kobe Bryant - he is the fuutre and man I hate to day this - but hre nEXT JORDAN IN THELEAGUE.

A valid opinion, cheesebeef . . . but not necessarily true.

Oscar, who averaged a triple-double in one season, was great, but he needed Lou Alcindor in the middle for a title.

Magic was talented and versatile, but he needed the same guy, Abdul-Jabbar, for titles.

Michael was unique. He was the man from the backcourt. And Isaah for a short time. They got the most out of role players around them.

Is Kobe capable of leading his team to a title? I don't think so. And, with his selfish, immature demeanor, will he get the best out of his teammates? Again, I don't think so.

We'll be a 50-and-fade team with an annual All-Star. For 3-4 years. Just as we were with Charles; just as we were with Jason. And just as we were with the guys who stayed longer -- Walter Davis, Paul Westphal.

We'll improve with Kobe (until he wears out his welcome in Phoenix), but we won't build a solid contender.

What we need more than anything is an experienced NBA GM, who will bring in an experienced Head Coach, to bring in fresh ideas, and get us out of this offense-or-defense/ live-for-small-ball/take months to adjust mentality.

And an ownership group who will allow him to disregard the past and get us out of this 35-year rut.

Kobe is not the answer. And, even if he were, not with these on-the-job-training Head Coaches that Jerry keeps under his thumb. Or drives out when he gets tired of them.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by BC867

Is Kobe capable of leading his team to a title? I don't think so. And, with his selfish, immature demeanor, will he get the best out of his teammates? Again, I don't think so.

I'm still waiting for solid reasons why Kobe is selfish and immature. Especially immature. You people consistently bad mouth him as being immature but you never back it up.

Why don't you just say "I don't want him because I don't like him, no matter how good he is" and be done with it? Of course, the ironic thing is that most people don't like him because he's so good, while disguising it with "selfish" and "immature".

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by BC867
A valid opinion, cheesebeef . . . but not necessarily true.

Oscar, who averaged a triple-double in one season, was great, but he needed Lou Alcindor in the middle for a title.

Magic was talented and versatile, but he needed the same guy, Abdul-Jabbar, for titles.

Michael was unique. He was the man from the backcourt. And Isaah for a short time. They got the most out of role players around them.

Is Kobe capable of leading his team to a title? I don't think so. And, with his selfish, immature demeanor, will he get the best out of his teammates? Again, I don't think so.

We'll be a 50-and-fade team with an annual All-Star. For 3-4 years. Just as we were with Charles; just as we were with Jason. And just as we were with the guys who stayed longer -- Walter Davis, Paul Westphal.

We'll improve with Kobe (until he wears out his welcome in Phoenix), but we won't build a solid contender.

What we need more than anything is an experienced NBA GM, who will bring in an experienced Head Coach, to bring in fresh ideas, and get us out of this offense-or-defense/ live-for-small-ball/take months to adjust mentality.

And an ownership group who will allow him to disregard the past and get us out of this 35-year rut.

Kobe is not the answer. And, even if he were, not with these on-the-job-training Head Coaches that Jerry keeps under his thumb. Or drives out when he gets tired of them.

Unbelievable. Your spoiled.

"Experienced NBA GM"???? It's a collective effort, bud. And, I'll take the Suns' braintrust over most.

So, you're already predicting Kobe would wear out his welcome? Who's your savior?

You should be forced to watch Atlanta Hawks games for 3 years straight.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Ok, this Bryan Colangelo bashing is just ridiculous.

So many people in phoenix hate him because he is the owners son. It is obvious that he got the job that way, but he has kept it by his performance.

So, instead of people claiming he is horrible, and we need someone else, I challange you this:

Give me a list of 10 (1/3) NBA GMs who you strongly feel are better (and you would like to replace) Bryan Colangelo. Ignore how much they would cost. I just want a list of GMs you think are better than him. Also, if you post some GMs who are on the border, include a set of reasoning why you like him better.

 

[Gee!]

You have no concept of what building a team actually is, do you? Amare by himself is NOT going to carry us to a title--it's a pleasant fantasy, but a fantasy nonetheless.

Well if you think bringing in Kobe will do it, I beleive your wrong. Kobe will stunt Amare's growth as a player. Kobe couldnt do that to Shaq bcuz Shaq was a proven dominant veteran, Kobe had to go along with the Shaq plan. Hence the disargeements between Shaq and Kobe. If Kobe came here he would feel like he is the Shaq of the team.

To build a team you need a superstar(Amare), a solid all-star(Marion, maybe JJ next year), role players, and a mix of young and veteran players. We have all young players. Which brings me back to the 1st post on this thread. We are young and it all needs to come together. Get a solid player in this draft and let it marinate.

 

[sly fly]

To build a team you need a superstar(Amare), a solid all-star(Marion, maybe JJ next year), role players, and a mix of young and veteran players. We have all young players. Which brings me back to the 1st post on this thread. We are young and it all needs to come together. Get a solid player in this draft and let it marinate.

I would rather marinate a filet than a chicken wing...

 

[Chaplin]

Well if you think bringing in Kobe will do it, I beleive your wrong. Kobe will stunt Amare's growth as a player. Kobe couldnt do that to Shaq bcuz Shaq was a proven dominant veteran, Kobe had to go along with the Shaq plan. Hence the disargeements between Shaq and Kobe. If Kobe came here he would feel like he is the Shaq of the team.

How do you know? You don't because Kobe has never had the chance to be a "Shaq" like you say. So because of that, you have no leg to stand on when you say he'll "stunt Amare's growth" as a player. That's ridiculous and completely unfounded.

You have no clue whether he would hurt the team or not. You automatically assume that, but have no quantifiable evidence to support that assumption. And what exactly is a "Shaq of the team"? If you mean leader of the team, well, we actually NEED that. If you mean fat and out of shape, even a Kobe-hater like you has to find that ridiculous. So tell me, what do you mean by that? Kobe is no Shaq, and Shaq is no Kobe.

 

[Gee!]

And what exactly is a "Shaq of the team"? If you mean leader of the team, well, we actually NEED that. If you mean fat and out of shape, even a Kobe-hater like you has to find that ridiculous. So tell me, what do you mean by that? Kobe is no Shaq, and Shaq is no Kobe.

Shaq of the team means dominant player. I would love to see if Kobe can do it by himslef, just not on the Suns. And for you to label me a Kobe hater is ridiculous. I hate the Bulls when they beat the Suns, but never once hated Jordan. You cant hate greatness, and I dont see it in Kobe. I would rather this convo would be about LeBron comming to PHX, cuz I would be gushing over him like you do Kobe. Not trying to say any smack, but maybe cuz you live in LA and hear all the pro-Kobe comments has brainwashed you.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

SameOlGee,

Your logic of how Kobe will stunt Amare's growth is flawed.

Let me give you the most obvious example:

Shaq did not stunt Kobe's growth. He is a top 5 player, and in Shaq's shadow.

Great players will develope no matter who is around them. That is what part of being a great player is.


Now, Amare might get fed up like Kobe did with Shaq, but that is another story.

 

[Chaplin]

Shaq of the team means dominant player. I would love to see if Kobe can do it by himslef, just not on the Suns. And for you to label me a Kobe hater is ridiculous. I hate the Bulls when they beat the Suns, but never once hated Jordan. You cant hate greatness, and I dont see it in Kobe. I would rather this convo would be about LeBron comming to PHX, cuz I would be gushing over him like you do Kobe. Not trying to say any smack, but maybe cuz you live in LA and hear all the pro-Kobe comments has brainwashed you.

So let me get this straight--you are assuming that if Kobe were on the Suns, he would destroy the team because he'd want to do everything himself? I suppose on some level that might be true (as it is with ALL great players), but are you naive enough to think that Kobe won't care about his teammates? If that's all he wanted, why not just sign with Atlanta and be done with it? On that team, he wouldn't HAVE any teammates!

He has said in the past that he really likes the personnel of the Suns, and he will make his decision at least in some part on that.

How is my supporting us signing Kobe--or at least ATTEMPTING to sign Kobe--being "brainwashed"?? Please tell me. Pro-Kobe? You haven't been to LA lately, have you? As a matter of fact, there is very little talk about Kobe or the Lakers--this is the yearly lull before the storm. Nobody cares about the Lakers until April, when they play games that count. Besides, most Laker fans are sick of hearing about Kobe leaving--all they care about was the last game, where he scored tons of points and pretty much won the game for them.

 

[Gee!]

That's fine and dandy. But, I havent heard any reasons why Kobe would be the cure all. In fact I hear people say he is riding Shaq's back. When I watch Kobe I get disgusted. I see 3 people open, yet he never passes the ball. I see him abdanoning the triangle offense. When you abandon the system put in place of the coach, thats bad news. When Jordan will endosre other players rather than Kobe even before the rape thing, there is a problem. Explain to me Kobe's greatness.

Meaning you want me to give you reasons why he aint good, I did, now give me reasons why he is. I dont wanna hear converting Lakers fans to Suns fans. I wanna know what you think he will do without Shaq.

I believe some Suns fans have given up on the current players. Some looking elsewhere. Im more excited by our own players than someone on a different team.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Ugh. Kobe abandon's the triangle offense because he is not the center of it. Michael was. The ball went through his hands, so why would he abandon it?

Kobe is a top 5 player, who is a second option on offense. The fact he was able to restrain himself for 3 titles is amazing. He sacrificed his game for championships. I am sorry, but that is not selfish.

The problem with calling a player selfish is, there is no definition of it. Kobe shoot s alot, and doesn't pass to a lot of players on a lot a plays. However, for every time he does not pass to a player, there is another time he throws an oop to Shaq.

A selfish 2g does not aver 5apg.

BTW, Jordan has in fact embraced Kobe Bryant multiple times. There have been articles about how Bryant confides in Mike from time to time. Also, Michael didn't endorse LBJ as the first pick, does that mean Lebron wasn't worthy.



You want me to explain Kobe's greatness? Ok, here is goes.

He is an All NBA defender how many years now?
He had how many straight games of 40+ points?
He holds the record for most consecutive 3s in a game.
He is the youngest player to amass 10,000 points (I think it was 10k, not positive)
He is able to put up monstrous numbers, when he is not the focal point of the offense.
He burried his ego for the better of the team for 3 straight rings.
He is just ENTERING his prime as a basketball player

on and on and on, if you wanted, I could write you a 10 page paper explaining Kobe Bryant's greatness, but it would be like me writing an essay claiming the world is round.

It is already proven, it doesn't need to be done again

 

[George O'Brien]

The issue SameOleGee is bringing up is probably one that would come up with bringing in any great player. I remember it coming up when the Suns traded for Barkley. Sir Charles was accused of being selfing and bad teammate when in Philadelphia, but he worked out pretty well for the Suns for a while.

The history of the NBA is littered with player acquisitions that did not work out. But usually acquiring a great player helps, even though it takes a lot of adjustment on everyone's part. Usually the conflict comes when the team adds a player who plays the same role as an existing star. I don't see that as a major problem in the Suns case.

What if the Suns signed Kobe and the team chemistry was bad? I doubt he would lose his trade value. Then the Suns could then trade him for someone SameOleGee really likes.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

What if the Suns signed Kobe and the team chemistry was bad? I doubt he would lose his trade value. Then the Suns could then trade him for someone SameOleGee really likes.

Exactly. I think that is the biggest point people miss. If we lock up Kobe, and it doesn't work as planned, it isn't like we will be stuck with him. I bet at least 26 teams would give up their best player for Kobe, along with others.

 

[Gee!]

Im sorry we are having this convo. Cuz Kobe will resign with the Lakers, then all you will bash him again.

 

[Joe Mama]

Im sorry we are having this convo. Cuz Kobe will resign with the Lakers, then all you will bash him again.

damn straight! If you re-signs with the Lakers is nothing but a selfish rapist!

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Im sorry we are having this convo. Cuz Kobe will resign with the Lakers, then all you will bash him again.

Sounds like you're giving up.

Probably for the best anyway.

And also, in response to George, the ONLY people accusing Kobe Bryant of being "selfish" are the ones on this board.

 

[Chaz]

I the only problem I have with all the talk about Kobe is his legal trouble. Charles had no issues of this type when the Suns aquired him.

I remember going to a sports bar for preseason games that year (92-93). I expect we will see the same type of excitement if Kobe were to play for the Suns next year. I just think the chances of that happening are 10% at best.

 

[Gee!]

Sounds like you're giving up.

Probably for the best anyway.

And also, in response to George, the ONLY people accusing Kobe Bryant of being "selfish" are the ones on this board.

Giving up? Its more being based in reality. This pipe dream of Kobe becoming a Sun is outlandish IMO. I dont want him anyway. If he does become a Sun I will have to deal with it. Only way I will give Kobe props is if he helps bring a title to AWA.

But, back to reality.

Is it a coincidence that Kobe suddenly has interests in other cities? I know he was gonna opt out b4 the rape thing. But this seems like a well orchastrated plan by his lawyers to sway public opinion. He was always gonna resign withthe Lakers, this just happens to help him.

And yes when he chooses the purple and yellow, without the orange you will go back to hating him.

 

[Chaplin]

Giving up? Its more being based in reality. This pipe dream of Kobe becoming a Sun is outlandish IMO. I dont want him anyway. If he does become a Sun I will have to deal with it. Only way I will give Kobe props is if he helps bring a title to AWA.

But, back to reality.

Is it a coincidence that Kobe suddenly has interests in other cities? I know he was gonna opt out b4 the rape thing. But this seems like a well orchastrated plan by his lawyers to sway public opinion. He was always gonna resign withthe Lakers, this just happens to help him.

And yes when he chooses the purple and yellow, without the orange you will go back to hating him.

Well, I don't think you're in a position to say what I will do or won't do. If he doesn't opt out, that doesn't mean anything--he'll be an UFA next summer along with McGrady.

But that wasn't the point of the discussion here, was it? You couldn't refute mine and Graham's points so you instantly come up with "well, it's not going to happen, so it's stupid to even discuss it".

And what do you mean "suddenly has interest"? He's always said he was going to test the market, even before the incident in Colorado. And the Suns weren't an option until they traded away Marbury.

 

[Gee!]

And what do you mean "suddenly has interest"? He's always said he was going to test the market, even before the incident in Colorado.

Your mirroring my message. I pride myself in telling the truth, or as I see it. If, if, Kobe resigns with the Lakers(is that better?), will you still be on the Kobe bandwagon?

 

[Chaplin]

Your mirroring my message. I pride myself in telling the truth, or as I see it. If, if, Kobe resigns with the Lakers(is that better?), will you still be on the Kobe bandwagon?

Why would I be? And what possible reason do you have to bring it up? Kobe is still a top 5 player, no matter what team he is on.

This discussion was about the viability and what signing Kobe Bryant would bring to the Phoenix Suns. If he doesn't sign with us, then of course, the point is moot. But does that mean we shouldn't discuss it? I'm going to keep discussing it until he signs a multi-year contract with another team.

So now, instead of following the current line of arguement about the merits of having Kobe Bryant on the Suns, you come up with "you're just going to hate him when he doesn't sign with the Suns". So what? What does that mean in the context of this discussion?