Keim is on the clock

[JeffGollin]

This has to be the most bummer-ridden off-seaon I can ever remember.

That's all I'm gonna say.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Did you know that Josh Rosen was bottom ten in net yards per attempt since 2000? That's all QB seasons.

Rosen was historically bad on many levels. Rosen is such a huge question mark at the most important position on the football field. That's why I changed my opinion; Rosen wasn't just bad, he was historically bad. That's the thing that hasn't been addressed much with the Pro-Rosen crowd. It's a huge gamble that Rosen actually works out.

The problem isn't necessarily that he had a bad line (multiple QBs were actually pressured more) or that his receivers were bad (his receiver's drop rate was around NFL average). The problem is that Rosen consistently made really bad reads. Name one GOOD game that Rosen had last year. One. Murray's worst game QB rating wasn't too far off of Rosen's SEASON average (139.1 vs 147). I know Riley's system helps QBs out, but we have a player (Mayfield) to compare how well it can translate to the NFL level.

Murray had one bad game in which he passed for 300 yards and rushed for 100 yards. That was his worst game of the season. He could be a generational type talent, because he pairs a strong arm WITH accuracy and good ball placement, with elite running ability.

Good points and I agree Rosen is by no means a sure thing. But he has already started the learning curve and has promise.

Adding new talent, rather than replacing current promising young talent seems like a failing plan.

 

[Veer]

Exactly. And, I heard BA on the radio last year and he was saying how Mahomes was the best he's ever seen on the whiteboard next to Peyton Manning. So, that comparison is not valid either.

In this case, it's even more baffling that BA didn't pull off his suit and jumped onto the table naked to make his case for Mahomes. In favor of a converted DE from Temple to play LB... Well, I guess being out of Temple did the trick for BA.

 

[Shane]

In this case, it's even more baffling that BA didn't pull off his suit and jumped onto the table naked to make his case for Mahomes. In favor of a converted DE from Temple to play LB... Well, I guess being out of Temple did the trick for BA.

How do you know he didn’t?

There was clearly a rift between Arians and management

 

[HeHasRosen]

Did you know that Josh Rosen was bottom ten in net yards per attempt since 2000? That's all QB seasons.

Rosen was historically bad on many levels. Rosen is such a huge question mark at the most important position on the football field. That's why I changed my opinion; Rosen wasn't just bad, he was historically bad. That's the thing that hasn't been addressed much with the Pro-Rosen crowd. It's a huge gamble that Rosen actually works out.

The problem isn't necessarily that he had a bad line (multiple QBs were actually pressured more) or that his receivers were bad (his receiver's drop rate was around NFL average). The problem is that Rosen consistently made really bad reads. Name one GOOD game that Rosen had last year. One. Murray's worst game QB rating wasn't too far off of Rosen's SEASON average (139.1 vs 147). I know Riley's system helps QBs out, but we have a player (Mayfield) to compare how well it can translate to the NFL level.

Murray had one bad game in which he passed for 300 yards and rushed for 100 yards. That was his worst game of the season. He could be a generational type talent, because he pairs a strong arm WITH accuracy and good ball placement, with elite running ability.

Im with you on how bad Rosen was. Yes he did make some bad reads but I can say that may have been the worst coaching staff of all time. I think we can't completely ignore that.

What I do know is that in the close games Murray had (2) he was not at his best and lost them both. Take that fwiw

The three games we did win Rosen had a big hand in them. It wasn't often but when Rosen did flash there was flashes of brilliance. Some throws he made only about 5 guys can make in this league. Never seen Murray make one of those. Also Rosen put this team on his back in those games in crunch time. That says something about a Rookie. I think he can lead and with the proper coaching can be great.

But i guess we just see things differently.

 

[Veer]

How do you know he didn’t?

There was clearly a rift between Arians and management

Can't imagine this, although it seems to be the popular opinion. The whole world (including SK and MB) knew that we needed a young talented legit successor for Palmer, who was thinking openly about retirement already the year before. Given BA's standing with SK and MB, I doubt that they wouldn't have granted his wish to trade up for a young franchise QB who was great on the whiteboard (best since Peyton) with generational arm talent. BA would probably still be here coaching with Mahomes in his offense. Anyway, we will probably never know. It's just a shame.

 

[DVontel]

Yea I bet the same person you talked to about Haskins is that he’s the messiah of QBs & he will win multiple MVPs right?

 

[Jetstream Green]

The problem with Murray is that his playing from high school to college is very impressive, his athletic ability is elite but he has not been put in a situation where one can really know if his game transcends to the pros. It's not his fault but his route makes his evaluation skewed with assumptions. You cannot say he can't but at the same time from how he was asked to play or what was needed to win does not necessarily say he can

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Keim had no case to NOT be fired after last season. It is the height of stupidity to have not sent him packing along with Wilks. I feel the KK hire will be close to as big a failure of a hiring as Wilks, but for different reasons.

Keim's FA moves, coaching hires and drafts have set this team back at least a half decade+!

 

[Veer]

The three games we did win Rosen had a big hand in them. It wasn't often but when Rosen did flash there was flashes of brilliance. Some throws he made only about 5 guys can make in this league. Never seen Murray make one of those. Also Rosen put this team on his back in those games in crunch time. That says something about a Rookie. I think he can lead and with the proper coaching can be great.

But i guess we just see things differently.

Indeed I see things differenty. I'm not a Rosen hater by any means. Like the guy, his talent and his demeanor. He was put into a horrible situation last year. I've never liked Bradford, but at least he was a seasoned, smart veteran who has seen it all. I thought he could still complete some passes to keep us from rock bottom offensively. When Bradford was obviously done, I was already afraid of a rookie QB not doing much better than him because while Bradford sucked, it was clear that the offense was a total mess as a whole.

I'm okay with keeping Rosen and developing him, although I think Murray is more accurate and I don't believe in his size being a big issue. Also I believe that Murray's athleticism in KK's offense could be lethal. Think of the rushing lanes for DJ, almost regardless of OL play, because opponents have to accoutn for Murray.

As for Rosen's play last season, not once I had the feeling that Rosen got us a win, save maybe for one 9ers game. We beat the horrible 9ers twice mainly because they couldn't stop anybody and our defense put us into favorable positions. We beat the Packers because they wanted McCarthy gone. Rosen's stats even in those 3 games were between nothing special and bad. I don't see the many incredible throws you saw. The scramble pass to Fitz in Green Bay on 3rd and forever was great, but not something a pocket passer like Rosen can do regularly. Play action bomb to Kirk against the 9ers was cool as well. Although it was a wide open pass with a pocket as clean as there is. Gabbert and Skelton made some incredible throws for us that made them look special, and we won games with them as well. Guess what? They aren't. For every "great" throw from Rosen, there were far too many bad errors solely on him, not counting the OL breakdown and WR drops. Saying Rosen made some throws that only 5 QBs can make is like the broken clock that's right twice a day. Rosen as a prospect, and in his rookie season, as unfair as it is, hasn't shown enough imo to pass on a special talent like Murray.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Im with you on how bad Rosen was. Yes he did make some bad reads but I can say that may have been the worst coaching staff of all time. I think we can't completely ignore that.

What I do know is that in the close games Murray had (2) he was not at his best and lost them both. Take that fwiw

The three games we did win Rosen had a big hand in them. It wasn't often but when Rosen did flash there was flashes of brilliance. Some throws he made only about 5 guys can make in this league. Never seen Murray make one of those. Also Rosen put this team on his back in those games in crunch time. That says something about a Rookie. I think he can lead and with the proper coaching can be great.

But i guess we just see things differently.

I've seen Murray make incredible throws. You really have to pick through his tape because he had so many open receivers, but don't mistake that he can't make elite throws, because if you watch enough tape you will see them.

Where Murray is a lot better than Rosen is that he has a better release and he's much more decisive in his decisions. When a receiver is open, he gets the ball out very quick, and Rosen struggled massively last year at doing this.

The way I see it, is that if both players hit their ceiling, Murray's ceiling is higher. We've already seen Rosen's floor, and it's about as low as you can go in the NFL. Honestly I don't see how a kid with Murray's confidence, skill set, and running ability is going to be as bad as Rosen was last year.

I'm ok with keeping Rosen, because maybe I'm drinking the kool aid a bit, but I really believe that Kingsbury is going to come in and turn the offense around. I just think that the upside with Murray is much greater than with Rosen.

One of the thinks Dan Bickley on 98.7 related a comment a scout said to him after watching his work out was really interesting. Bickley said he really trusts what this scout said, and the scout basically said that Murray isn't wired the same as other QBs and that he has cat-like reflexes and his footwork is never bad. He said that Murray showed this in his Pro-day and it was really impressive, but it mirrored what they saw on tape. I might be misquoting him a bit, but that's essentially what Bickley said.

We've never seen another prospect like him, he is similar to Wilson, but he was raised to be a QB by his QB father and he's an even better athlete than Wilson was coming out. My concern with Wilson coming out was that his deep balls tended to hang, and you still see that with him, but Wilson has next level decision making and you don't see him often throw up balls that are going to get picked because he only throws if he knows he's going to make it. Murray throws a much better deep ball and he consistently hits receivers in stride.

 

[Harry]

Keim conundrum! Last year he signed off on a coach who failed. He acquired 3 QBs. He gave up 2 picks (think impact player if he stayed put) to get one QB. He monstrously overpaid another (see the contract he just signed). Now he may be dumping both having wasted money and picks. He also overpaid monstrously for a QB who they started. He lasted 3 weeks. Now the Cards seem poised to dump a future Pro Bowl player to draft a QB who started only one year in college. The stats on success of that maneuver aren’t very good. As well as Keim has done this off-season if he makes the Murray move I believe he is putting his career on the line.

 

[Mainstreet]

Leaving quarterback out of the equation, it would be so much fun if the Cardinals traded down slightly, draft a player like Quinnen Williams and still add a quality pick or two.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Yea I bet the same person you talked to about Haskins is that he’s the messiah of QBs & he will win multiple MVPs right?

No. Haskins is my opinion.

Although when asked, they preferred Haskins over Murray.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Leaving quarterback out of the equation, it would be so much fun if the Cardinals traded down slightly, draft a player like Quinnen Williams and still add a quality pick or two.

I’d be all for that and draft Devin White from LSU.

 

[Shane]

Keim had no case to NOT be fired after last season. It is the height of stupidity to have not sent him packing along with Wilks. I feel the KK hire will be close to as big a failure of a hiring as Wilks, but for different reasons.

Keim's FA moves, coaching hires and drafts have set this team back at least a half decade+!

This will be 100% accurate should they draft Murray.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

In this case, it's even more baffling that BA didn't pull off his suit and jumped onto the table naked to make his case for Mahomes. In favor of a converted DE from Temple to play LB... Well, I guess being out of Temple did the trick for BA.

All I know is what BA said on his radio interview. I think it was with Dan Patrick but not sure. It was early in the year last season.
I bet they were ticked KC jumped in front of them and thought they had him. There’s little doubt in my mind that they would have taken Mahomes and, thus, BA still coaching the Cards.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I’d be all for that and draft Devin White from LSU.

I like White a lot, but I don't know how much of an overall WAR improvement he would be over Reddick in the near term.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Now the Cards seem poised to dump a future Pro Bowl player to draft a QB who started only one year in college. The stats on success of that maneuver aren’t very good. As well as Keim has done this off-season if he makes the Murray move I believe he is putting his career on the line.

I don't know if there is "stats" on this maneuver.

If the Cardinals draft and dump Rosen, it will be an unprecedented move in modern NFL history. The last time a team used two 1st round picks in a row on a QB was the Dallas Cowboys with Walsh (he was a supplemental draft pick) and Aikman.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Indeed I see things differenty. I'm not a Rosen hater by any means. Like the guy, his talent and his demeanor. He was put into a horrible situation last year. I've never liked Bradford, but at least he was a seasoned, smart veteran who has seen it all. I thought he could still complete some passes to keep us from rock bottom offensively. When Bradford was obviously done, I was already afraid of a rookie QB not doing much better than him because while Bradford sucked, it was clear that the offense was a total mess as a whole.

I'm okay with keeping Rosen and developing him, although I think Murray is more accurate and I don't believe in his size being a big issue. Also I believe that Murray's athleticism in KK's offense could be lethal. Think of the rushing lanes for DJ, almost regardless of OL play, because opponents have to accoutn for Murray.

As for Rosen's play last season, not once I had the feeling that Rosen got us a win, save maybe for one 9ers game. We beat the horrible 9ers twice mainly because they couldn't stop anybody and our defense put us into favorable positions. We beat the Packers because they wanted McCarthy gone. Rosen's stats even in those 3 games were between nothing special and bad. I don't see the many incredible throws you saw. The scramble pass to Fitz in Green Bay on 3rd and forever was great, but not something a pocket passer like Rosen can do regularly. Play action bomb to Kirk against the 9ers was cool as well. Although it was a wide open pass with a pocket as clean as there is. Gabbert and Skelton made some incredible throws for us that made them look special, and we won games with them as well. Guess what? They aren't. For every "great" throw from Rosen, there were far too many bad errors solely on him, not counting the OL breakdown and WR drops. Saying Rosen made some throws that only 5 QBs can make is like the broken clock that's right twice a day. Rosen as a prospect, and in his rookie season, as unfair as it is, hasn't shown enough imo to pass on a special talent like Murray.

So when McVay took over from a fossil in LA they should have dumped Goff for the next shiny thing ?

 

[Chopper0080]

Last two paragraphs are gold

I wish he would have just named me as his source.

 

[Chopper0080]

Again, the next criticism I hear about his actual play on the field will be the first time.

He had the best offensive line. He played under the best offensive coach. He had the best deep threat in college football. He is a world class athlete. Why would he fail on tape? Oh, except when he did in the first three drives in the Alabama game prior to him racking up garbage time stats, but we aren't counting those.

 

[Chopper0080]

Look, any sample size is going to be small due to Murray's limited experience, but he had ONE game where he played against better competition, and he crapped the bed when it mattered. He didn't look polished. He didn't look dynamic. He didn't look prepared. And all of those things occurred when the game was actually close.

 

[Shane]

He had the best offensive line. He played under the best offensive coach. He had the best deep threat in college football. He is a world class athlete. Why would he fail on tape? Oh, except when he did in the first three drives in the Alabama game prior to him racking up garbage time stats, but we aren't counting those.

Look, any sample size is going to be small due to Murray's limited experience, but he had ONE game where he played against better competition, and he crapped the bed when it mattered. He didn't look polished. He didn't look dynamic. He didn't look prepared. And all of those things occurred when the game was actually close.

1000% these

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Pass on Humphries, this was an actually good draft pick. He was very athletic and that’s about it. I bet thought that the O-line coaches would coach up his blocking, but I guess not

Well we have a damn good one now coaching him, kugler is one of the best in the business. Humphries will improve, count on it.