Kevin Garnett Thread

[kps0001]

Garnetts era had some of the best defensive big men ever, Mutombo, Shaq, Duncan, Wallace, Wallace..

True also but how many of those guys are Centers? How many All NBA whatever has KG been awarded for playing center?

 

[Joe Mama]

Ewing averaged 0.7bpg more than Garnett on his career, Garnett averges almost 2 rpg more than Ewing and half a steal more.

In 17 seasons Ewing made the ALL-NBA Defensive 2nd Team 3 times, no others. Garnett made ALL-NBA Defensive 1st team SIX times and 2nd team 2 times and 3rd team once in 12 seasons. In fact 3rd team was this season and if Minnesota wasn't so pathetic the awards would have kept coming.

There is absolutely no argument.

Lets not even forget that Garnett played all those seasons in a small market like Minnesota while Ewing was in the biggest market basically his whole career.

Look, I'm all about the love for KG, but you are a little off here. There is only one spot for a center on the first team all defense. Patrick Ewing was up against Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, and Mutombo for a large part of his career. If there was only one forward spot on the all defense team KG would be on the second team at best.

Joe

 

[TBaslim]

Garnett is argueably one of best 10 players to ever play the game so he has a point.
If you look at him as a PF he is right up there with Malone and Barkley after Duncan.

Garnett is at least 7'1, I don't care if you think he is not a true center or whatever. He can guard any big man in the league as good as anyone else except MAYBE MAYBE Shaq.

KG is a heck of a talent, but no way he is in the top 10 all time NBA. Maybe top 50, and there would be great debate about that.

He would either work out great with the Suns, and we would win multiple titles, or it would be a train wreck.

Assuming getting him were possible and required Marion, the ego question between KG and Amare would need to be clearly settled, and both would have to be comfortable with their roles.

Then, the team would have to be sure they could create an offense that works to Amare and KG and Nashty's strengths. Doable, but it better be thought out ahead of time. Then the question would come up of whether the rest of the team fits into this new offense, or if there would have to be a 3 year trading-out process to build the team up again?

I'm not sure I give up Marion and #4 for KG. The problem is that Marion for KG stat-wise is a swap. Sure, there are different things on the table with those two - defense on smalls vs defense on bigs, late game offense, one-on-one offense - but stat-wise it is a swap. That is a problem, because we need a better bench. Getting KG doesn't solve for that.

Keeping Marion and using the #4 pick very, very wisely? That solves for it.

Remember, this is a deep draft. We snagged talent like Marion with the #9 pick. If we get (cross fingers) a pick in the 4-6 range, and use it correctly, even as a rookie a player of that caliber ADDED to the current team would do wonders.

 

[slinslin]

I'm not sure I give up Marion and #4 for KG. The problem is that Marion for KG stat-wise is a swap. Sure, different things on the table with those two - defense on smalls vs defense on bigs, late game offense, one-on-one offense - but stat-wise it is a swap. That is a problem, cause we need a better bench. Getting KG doesn't solve for that.

Marion 17.5ppg 9.8rpg 1.7apg 2.0spg 1.5bpg with Steve Nash setting him up
Garnett 22.4ppg 12.8rpg 4.1apg 1.2spg 1.7bpg against double teams

That is a huge upgrade and doesn't even look at the intangibles. Size, Defense, Playmaking.

Drafting someone at #4 won't make Shawn Marion any more effective against a team like the Spurs, or Bell, or Barbosa.. it's not going to happen. We can sit back and keep the same roster and hope we can win a tough series against San Antonio. As of right now such a series comes down to luck. I don't like that, I want a team that is capable of beating those guys consistently no matter how good San Antonio plays or how many breaks they get. It's a wonder we can beat them and other teams in the playoffs despite not getting to play our regular season style simply because we have that much talent but we could get a lot better still.

 

[kps0001]

Marion 17.5ppg 9.8rpg 1.7apg 2.0spg 1.5bpg with Steve Nash setting him up
Garnett 22.4ppg 12.8rpg 4.1apg 1.2spg 1.7bpg against double teams

That is a huge upgrade and doesn't even look at the intangibles. Size, Defense, Playmaking.

so giving up a number 4 pick is worth an extra 4pts per game, 3 rebounds, and 3 assts per game? That is essentially what you are saying. You are way to hung up on stats here.

EDIT: and we don't even have the freakin #4 pick yet.

 

[slinslin]

so giving up a number 4 pick is worth an extra 4pts per game, 3 rebounds, and 3 assts per game? That is essentially what you are saying. You are way to hung up on stats here.

EDIT: and we don't even have the freakin #4 pick yet.

Yes it would be easily 4ppg, 3rpg, 3apg and a lot that can't be measured in statistics.

 

[Dan H]

I think Garnett would be an amazing high-post player for the Suns. He's a great passer, and he's got intensity to match Nash and Raja. I don't think he'd ever face a double team on the Suns.

 

[CaptainInsano]

so giving up a number 4 pick is worth an extra 4pts per game, 3 rebounds, and 3 assts per game? That is essentially what you are saying. You are way to hung up on stats here.

EDIT: and we don't even have the freakin #4 pick yet.

You are completely ignoring the fact that KG has a game unlike marion and thus wouldn't slump against the spurs marion doesn't even command double teams and yet STILL fails to amount to anything worth 15 million vs the spurs, that is the key here.

Marion has no midrange game to speak of, and I have had it with him shooting his low pct threes because he camps the 3 point line. He gets his points off cuts and passes from steve nash almost completely and if anyone bodies up on him he disappears offensively. Because he has no back to the basket game he can't do anything against teams that won't just leave him wide open under the basket barely ever.

None of that, NONE would happen with KG. He would rebound better, score his 15 ft jumpers, command double teams and spread the floor, make passes, not ever EVER shoot 3 pointers etc. etc.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

I am totally on the KG bandwagon now, as long as we don't lose Nash or Amare...anything goes.

 

[kps0001]

I am totally on the KG bandwagon now, as long as we don't lose Nash or Amare...anything goes.

I wouldn't say I am on the bandwagon but if there was any remote chance for something like this to go down I agree that almost anything goes.

You are completely ignoring the fact that KG has a game unlike marion and thus wouldn't slump against the spurs marion doesn't even command double teams and yet STILL fails to amount to anything worth 15 million vs the spurs, that is the key here.

I am not ignoring anything of the such. My point was slin showed the statistical comparison between the two players and suggested giving up our # 4 draft pick to bring in KG. I feel that going by statistics that the Marion for KG is not a huge upgrade if we are also giving up a possible # 4. I am pretty sure if we kept the team in tact and added whoever it is we,hopefully, get to pick this year from Atlanta that we could find an additional 4pts per game, 3 rebounds, and 3 assts per game and possibly a ton more depending on who we get.

I am not willing to sell what could be a big future for what could be a championship next year if we get KG. If everything stayed the same as is with this team and we add a top draft pick like we could who is to say we aren't in a way better position to win this year and for a lot more I don't think we need to get older with KG who will be 31 today, actually. We have had some really good luck in the draft and not so good luck in trades as of late, imo.

Marion has no midrange game to speak of, and I have had it with him shooting his low pct threes because he camps the 3 point line. He gets his points off cuts and passes from steve nash almost completely and if anyone bodies up on him he disappears offensively. Because he has no back to the basket game he can't do anything against teams that won't just leave him wide open under the basket barely ever.

I am not going to get into the postives and negatives of Marions game that has been debated to death and I am tired of it. With that being said, I love Marion more than any other player on this team, even Nash, but I am not ignorant to the fact that there is a great possibility he leaves us this year.

I think giving Marion and other pieces is fine.What other pieces? That's the difficult part. I don't think giving up the Atlanta pick is a good idea in this upcoming draft.





....so much for not getting involved in trade talks

 

[Divide Et Impera]

....so much for not getting involved in trade talks

D'oh!!



See! I told you it wasn't so bad....

 

[kps0001]

I shall never question DEI again.


btw, any errors in that last one? I tried a little harder but not too hard.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

That post is a grammatical mess. You're missing commas and all kinds of other things. On top of that, you have some crazy run-on sentences that I don't even want to tackle....



Welcome aboard!

 

[btimsah]

I don't know where to start.

We need a big man that complements Amare and Garnett is a complete unselfish player with great size, what could be better? You get Garnett and keep Amare and you have the possibly best frontcourt in the history of the NBA.

You want to keep playing with just Amare as your only big man and having a liability like Marion at the 4?

Garnett doesn't average that many blocks because he is always guarding the best player, he is more of a weakside shotblocker in my opinion. I'd bet he changes more shots than almost any other player though with his length.

Neither Amare or Garnett is a 5. So having both would be a luxury, not a necessity. But two all-star power forwards? That's just greedy.

If we could get Garnett I would be for it though, I just think we have other needs and find it unlikely. Give Nash a Joe-Johnson again!

 

[btimsah]

Neither Amare or Garnett is a 5. So having both would be a luxury, not a necessity. But two all-star power forwards? That's just greedy.

If we could get Garnett I would be for it though, I just think we have other needs and find it unlikely. Give Nash a Joe-Johnson again!

But then again.. I'm having second thoughts. Garnett is such a better scorer from the field.. Would be a nice netreulizer for a guy like Duncan. You'd think he'd love to come to Phoenix.

 

[Diawsome]

Why would the Suns get Kevin Garnett, when we allready have Stoudemire? Furthermore, and I will keep saying this, we need a shooting guard. That's our biggest weakness.

I would not be against trading Barbosa and Marion for Ray Allen or something like that. Then were improved. I'm not against getting Garnett, he's a great player obviously.. but the 2 guard spot is our biggest cavity.

The Suns need size more than a shooting guard. They need someone who can alter shots of anyone who drives into the paint as well as limit the other team's second chance opportunities. As good of a job Kurt Thomas did against Tim Duncan, TD got whatever he wanted because the Suns do not have that post defender who can alter shots like Duncan did. Take this series for example both teams guards decided to penetrate the lane frequently, Nash and Barbosa struggled because they ran into Tim Duncan who had some 30 blocked shots or something like that and numerous shot altering swats. At the same time Parker and Ginobili went to the basket and there wasn't that defender there waiting for them.

That is the reason why teams like Phoenix and Dallas who are as talented as any club out there have not been able to win championships. Other teams know they can drive to the basket and there is nobody there who can alter or block their shots.

 

[TucsonDevil]

see below.

 

[TucsonDevil]

...

I bet you wish you had a different user name...

 

[Diawsome]

I bet you wish you had a different user name...

As long as he stays away from the croissants I have faith he will turn it around

 

[SirStefan32]

are you really comparing Garnett to two of the best true centers that have played the game? Garnett is not a true center or even a center at all.

Oh for God's freking sake, let's nit-pick now. You know exactly what I ment, you know the point I made and you know I am right.

Fine, substitute "Ewing or Hakeem" for Karl Malone.

Geez.

 

[SirStefan32]

Why would the Suns get Kevin Garnett, when we allready have Stoudemire?

Garnett is one of the best players in the league, and can play small forward, power forward or center position. He is a good defender (Suns need one), outstanding rebounder (again, Suns REALLY need one) and he can make plays. (Suns need somebody to take some pressure off of Nash).

 

[SirStefan32]

Neither Amare or Garnett is a 5. So having both would be a luxury, not a necessity. But two all-star power forwards? That's just greedy.

If we could get Garnett I would be for it though, I just think we have other needs and find it unlikely. Give Nash a Joe-Johnson again!

Suns don't use Centers!!!!!
Why does it matter how you label a player?
If you score in the low post, grab 10+ rebound per game, block shots, and can defend against big men- what is the difference whether your position is PF or center. Geez.

 

[CaptainInsano]

I am not ignoring anything of the such. My point was slin showed the statistical comparison between the two players and suggested giving up our # 4 draft pick to bring in KG. I feel that going by statistics that the Marion for KG is not a huge upgrade if we are also giving up a possible # 4.

I see what you are saying but that doesn't change the fact that going by statistics with a KG vs marion scenario is just...dumb..

So that to me is almost like ingoring the real problems here which is marion vs KG playstyle, but we covered this already.

The draft pick getting us over the spurs problem is very unlikely, we are bringing in a kid who will get little development time, will definately not flourish under D'antoni's impatience with new players and their mess-ups, has no playoff experience, and will definately NOT enjoy the spurs pounding the crap out of him.

Yi will crunch like a tin can, Al horford will get frustrated trying to post up and defend duncan or whatnot (since the foul machines oberto and elson will be on amare part time) and have the ball stolen from him, both these players would have to work like they have never worked before for rebounds, and of course other things we will not see coming.

Expecting a draft pick to get us over the spurs the first year is just asinine and I definately DEFINATELY do not want to go through another long "exciting" and "run and gun" and "eyes on the prize" year with marion oops and dunks and oohs and ahhs just to get frustrated once more when the spurs defense and fundamentals overwhelms our team, makes marion into a puppet, and worst of all frustrates the hell out of our new inexperienced rookie.

I will take KG over marion slumping again and the draft pick 99 out of 100 times.

KG is 31 years old he at the very least has 3-4 more years left in him at a great level, look what we did with Steve Nash, was that worth it?

 

[elindholm]

I see what you are saying but that doesn't change the fact that going by statistics with a KG vs marion scenario is just...dumb..

So that to me is almost like ingoring the real problems here which is marion vs KG playstyle, but we covered this already.

The draft pick getting us over the spurs problem is very unlikely, we are bringing in a kid who will get little development time, will definately not flourish under D'antoni's impatience with new players and their mess-ups, has no playoff experience, and will definately NOT enjoy the spurs pounding the crap out of him.

Yi will crunch like a tin can, Al horford will get frustrated trying to post up and defend duncan or whatnot (since the foul machines oberto and elson will be on amare part time) and have the ball stolen from him, both these players would have to work like they have never worked before for rebounds, and of course other things we will not see coming.

Expecting a draft pick to get us over the spurs the first year is just asinine and I definately DEFINATELY do not want to go through another long "exciting" and "run and gun" and "eyes on the prize" year with marion oops and dunks and oohs and ahhs just to get frustrated once more when the spurs defense and fundamentals overwhelms our team, makes marion into a puppet, and worst of all frustrates the hell out of our new inexperienced rookie.

I will take KG over marion slumping again and the draft pick 99 out of 100 times.

KG is 31 years old he at the very least has 3-4 more years left in him at a great level, look what we did with Steve Nash, was that worth it?

Nailed it.

 

[Evil Ash]

Ah the usual trade for a superstar thread that happens at the end of every season. Garnett isn't going anywhere

1) He has not asked for a trade. Unless he forces a trade, the TWolves aren't going to trade him. Period. The end.

2) McHale is on shaky ground to say the least. The team had a press conference to say he's got another year. If you were the GM trying to save your ass, would you give up the best player on the team? I don't think so

There may be a trade for another player this offseason but there is no way its for Garnett.