Kevin Garnett?

[JCSunsfan]

Any trade involving KG is going to be unusual. His salary is so large, and roster #s are limited. They have to take back a big salary in any deal and most teams are going to offer junk. They would be thrilled to get a player of Marion's quality. Look at this discussion on the RealGM board (http://www3.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=530550&start=240)

Minny fans are talking about having to take on someone like Webber to make a trade.

They love Chicago's young players, but they can't do a 1 for 5 deal.

Discussion here has been that something is actually in the works. Has their been any indication in any publication that the Suns are actually interested in trading for KG? It looks to me just logical speculation, but no insider information or talks.

 

[Covert Rain]

Absolutely serious. In no way shape or form would the Twolves trade KG for Marion straight up...even if salaries wern't a consideration.

Ofcourse not. Any team who is giving up their star would try to exploit whatever team wants that player. Even if that player isn't really worth it. Happens all the time. Doesn't make that player any better of a player or improve his career stats which tell the real story.

Of course you and any Suns homer would be all for that trade....obviously the Twolves would laugh you right out of the room if that were proposed to them.

Just like the Suns should laugh at any trade for a player that statistically rivals KG when that same team is asking for other players and picks as well. It doesn't matter who the player is or what teams your referring too. That's common sense and why that trade would never happen.

Their stats may be similar (although KG averages 2ppg and 3rpg more) but KG is the focal point of other teams defense while Marion certainley is not....Marion almost never gets doubled...KG does face double teams. Teams focus in on KG yet he still outperfoms Marion. Not only that but KG's 4 inches of height advantage over Marion has to help on defense.

Wow. 2 more ppg and 3 more rpg would bring a championship. At any rate, ofcourse KG is the focal point. Who else would they focus on that team? That team has been bad with very little talent other then KG. Who else should they double team? Again, KG is barely better then Marion is some stats and Marion is better then the others. They don't run plays to Marion yet he almost scores as much. What does that say? Again, look at the stats, they are so freaking similar yet Marion is shorter? Your right KG 4 inches of height should make a huge difference. It doesn't.

Amare has played center....KG would play center.....Diaw has played center....Kurt is a center. Why get hung up on any of that? Besides, tell me what wrong with a Nash/Bell/Garnett/Amare/Kurt starting five? Is that so terrible?

Not hung up on it at all. Amare is. When Kurt is in there with Amare he plays PF. Amare has made it clear it prefers PF. When Diaw or Kurt is in there he doesn't play center. That wouldn't change if KG was here. Oh, and I never said that lineup would be terrible. I am just not sure it would result in anymore wins playoff or regular season.

What price? Marion, Barbs, and a draft pick? Thats a price the Suns could pay...EASILY. The Suns have three picks in this upcoming deep draft...They have a lot of talent on the team already. They can afford to trade up.

It's not a matter is the Suns could afford it but should they. I say no. KG bottom line isn't worth Marion, draft picks and Banks let alone Barbosa. OK, I might consider Marion and a late round draft pick but nothing more then that. This team has already shortened the bench this year. Then they are suppose to include 1 of the main bench players?!?! Yeah, that sounds worth it. You need a bench to make it through the playoffs. Talk about laughing? If MT came to the Suns and asked for Marion and Barbosa they would hang up the phone before the sentence was done. That's the talk of a MT homer praying they get something in return for a player who is tired of playing for a pathetic franchise.

 

[arwillan]

while kg is a spectacular player, i dont think he will wind up with the suns.

nobody really wants to ditch amare, shawn marion is playing very well, and we definitely wont lose steve nash. no matter how you spin it, we dont have the means to obtain him without losing something just as valuable if not even better :/

 

[slinslin]

Shawn Marion is playing very well? He is playing his worst season since his 2nd year.

 

[elindholm]

I doubt anything is in the works. The time to trade Marion, if the Suns wanted to, was last summer. Both Stoudemire and Diaw are big question marks in terms of what they'll be able to provide this season, so I don't see any logic behind throwing yet another monkey wrench into the works. I do think Garnett will be moved, by this summer at the latest, but I don't see it being to Phoenix.

Atlanta seems possible. According to RealGM, the Hawks are about $7.5 million under the cap. That means that something like Marvin Williams, Claxton (expiring, could probably be moved in another deal), Lorenzen Wright (filler for two years), and picks could work, for a package of about $14 million and the cap space absorbing the salary difference. The Wolves would shed a ton of salary, get a young star, and be able to add more prospects in upcoming drafts.

Joe Johnson and Garnett could be quite an effective pairing, and if you add Josh Smith and Pachulia, that's four credible starters. The only thing is that I don't know which future first-round picks the Hawks are allowed to move, since Phoenix owns theirs for this coming summer.

 

[elindholm]

And by the way, anyone who doesn't see a big skill difference between Garnett and Marion doesn't watch them play.

 

[pokerface]

Wow. 2 more ppg and 3 more rpg would bring a championship. At any rate, ofcourse KG is the focal point. Who else would they focus on that team? That team has been bad with very little talent other then KG. Who else should they double team? Again, KG is barely better then Marion is some stats and Marion is better then the others. They don't run plays to Marion yet he almost scores as much. What does that say? Again, look at the stats, they are so freaking similar yet Marion is shorter? Your right KG 4 inches of height should make a huge difference. It doesn't.
.

You dont seem or want to get it. Let me spell it out for you....Marion is WIDE OPEN compared to Garnett. Teams dont adjust defenses for Marion....Garnett gets the utmost attention. KG has to achieve his stats being covered at a higher degree than Marion ever would. Thats why your stats are misleading..but even accoring to the stats KG still outperfroms Marion. Bottomline, KG on Suns could be an even better producer when Nash is dishing him the ball and Amare is drawing doubleteams/attention.

 

[pokerface]

I doubt anything is in the works. The time to trade Marion, if the Suns wanted to, was last summer. Both Stoudemire and Diaw are big question marks in terms of what they'll be able to provide this season, so I don't see any logic behind throwing yet another money wrench into the works. .

I agree with that. I think the Suns will go as is this season and make any adjustments next offseason.

Because of their numerous draft picks next offseason might be quite active as far as trades go.

 

[jandaman]

Marion scores 20/10


I dont think teams enter a match against the Suns thinking... "We'll leave Marion open".

Marion beats them... the difference is, Marion isnt a crafty as KG in terms of making plays... but ironically... playmaking is what KG isnt supposed to be doing...its actually his achilles heel... happy to be at the perimeter shooting or passing rather than drawing fouls and dominating the inside.
How many times does he do a spin then fade away shot..... makes me cringe.. seeing a 7'1 atheletic as hell player with skills to boot.... fade away against slow centers/power forwards. He is a Nowitski type... except Nowitski has the instinct to put 50 points on the score board any given night.. obviously KG has the defense... and it shows on his team record... ahem...

And also, Marion, when he sat out the last 2-3 seasons... the Suns have not won a game.....

when he records a double double... the Suns's win ratio is very high.

 

[pokerface]

Marion scores 20/10


I dont think teams enter a match against the Suns thinking... "We'll leave Marion open".

Yeah and there is no group meeting saying "We need to double Marion". KG gets doubled...not every time but he draws the double team a lot....and if he's not drawing the double team he's getting watched closely. Marion just roams around while Nash/Amare get focused in on.


btw Marion is 19 & 9 (rounding up)...not 20 & 10. KG is 21 & 12 and getting watched like a Hawk.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Yeah and there is no group meeting saying "We need to double Marion". KG gets doubled...not every time but he draws the double team a lot....and if he's not drawing the double team he's getting watched closely. Marion just roams around while Nash/Amare get focused in on.


btw Marion is 19 & 9 (rounding up)...not 20 & 10. KG is 21 & 12 and getting watched like a Hawk.

Do we really need Marion getting doubleteamed? No, because we have Amare that fits into that role. Whenever he has the ball within 10 feet of the basket, he is usually doubleteamed.

 

[SirStefan32]

Marion scores 20/10


I dont think teams enter a match against the Suns thinking... "We'll leave Marion open".

Marion beats them... the difference is, Marion isnt a crafty as KG in terms of making plays... but ironically... playmaking is what KG isnt supposed to be doing...its actually his achilles heel... happy to be at the perimeter shooting or passing rather than drawing fouls and dominating the inside.
How many times does he do a spin then fade away shot..... makes me cringe.. seeing a 7'1 atheletic as hell player with skills to boot.... fade away against slow centers/power forwards. He is a Nowitski type... except Nowitski has the instinct to put 50 points on the score board any given night.. obviously KG has the defense... and it shows on his team record... ahem...

And also, Marion, when he sat out the last 2-3 seasons... the Suns have not won a game.....

when he records a double double... the Suns's win ratio is very high.

First off, let me say that I would love to get KG. I think he is the type of player that could put you over the top. However, like every single time this comes up, I have to play devils advocate.

Marion is the only player ranked in the top 20 in points (17th, 21.2) and top 10 in rebounds (8th, 9.5) and steals (3rd, 2.28) in the NBA. Their overall career stats are incredibly similar. In fact, you could argue Marion over achieves in some areas like rebounding and blocks where KG underachieves for someone of his size.

Some of you are suggesting it would take a package of draft picks and Marion?!?!? You cannot be serious. You would be trading for almost the same player yet it would cost the Suns more. For what? For almost the exact same stats at one position (SF) to another position (Center). Because there is no way Amare plays center if they get KG. That's also assuming KG could or would play out of position at center. Unlike Marion, KG hasn't played as much out of position as Marion.

So man I would love to get KG but not at the price some of you are suggesting. There is nothing that says KG is that much more valuable then Marion. So anybody suggesting that KG for Marion STRAIGHT UP would be a fair trade, I would have to agree.

IMO the only reason you would have to give up more for KG is not because of stats or talent. It simply because of recognition. KG has been the stud amungst a TON of terrible talent on the MT. He is not burried on a team with the likes of Nash and Amare.

So if you could get KG by trading say Kurt, another player and some draft picks then I would be all for it. If you think that having the same stats but at center versus small forward would put you over the top (assuming a straight up trade would work) then again, pull the trigger. However, you don't trade 2 similar players and give up more because your player isn't as marketable and burried on a much more talented team.

I don't believe you guys are serious. I don't care how much you like Marion, but to say he is equal to KG is flat out insane. KG is one of the best players in the league (along with Kobe, Wade, Shaq, Duncan, James, and Nash) while Marion is a very good 3rd or 4th option.

As people already pointed out, KG demands double teams. If you don't double team him, he is going to score 50 points on you. Marion gets garbage points for the most part. Adding a player that demands double teams makes everyone else's job easier.

He is also capable of going in the low post and then scoring or dishing out from there all night, whereas Marion has the ability to stand at the three point line and take wide open jumpers, occasinally getting inside for a dunk.

KG is a much better defender as well simply because he is able to guard 3's 4's and 5's equally well.

His shot selection is a lot better than Marions.

If there is a way to get KG, you HAVE to go ahead and try to do it. I think Minnessota would be insane to trade KG for Marion unless there are good pics involved and pehaps a expiring salary or something like that.

 

[SirStefan32]

Do we really need Marion getting doubleteamed? No, because we have Amare that fits into that role. Whenever he has the ball within 10 feet of the basket, he is usually doubleteamed.

OK, how would you defend Garnett and Amare in the game together? Both of them demand double teams, and both of them will score 40 or 50 point on you if you don't double them. How do you defend that?

Currently, I would double Amare, and leave Marion wide open to shoot jumpers all night.

I am sorry, but there is no way that Suns with Marion are better than Suns with Garnett. There is no comparrison.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

OK, how would you defend Garnett and Amare in the game together? Both of them demand double teams, and both of them will score 40 or 50 point on you if you don't double them. How do you defend that?

Currently, I would double Amare, and leave Marion wide open to shoot jumpers all night.

I am sorry, but there is no way that Suns with Marion are better than Suns with Garnett. There is no comparrison.

How does Garnett get in the open court on a fast break? He isn't nearly as fast as he used to be. Both Amare and Garnett cannot have the ball at the same time. There is only one ball. They would basically would be stepping on each other's toes.

I concede that Garnett is an all-around better player. I will not completely agree that the Suns would be better with Garnett vs. Marion. Besides, it would never be a Marion for Garnett swap. Phoenix would have to include one or two draft picks, as well as Kurt Thomas/Barbosa/Diaw etc.

 

[SirStefan32]

How does Garnett get in the open court on a fast break? He isn't nearly as fast as he used to be.

No player is as quick at his age as they were back when they were 20.
He is, however, fast enough. Also, he is a better rebounder than Marion and he can run a fast break. He is a much better ball handler than Shawn.

Both Amare and Garnett cannot have the ball at the same time. There is only one ball. They would basically would be stepping on each other's toes.

Not at all. Both Amare and Kevin are versitile and can play in the post and on the free throw line. I am not sure how Garnett/Diaw/ Amare would work together, but Amare and KG would be just fine.

I concede that Garnett is an all-around better player.

We agree on something.

I will not completely agree that the Suns would be better with Garnett vs. Marion.

How can they not be?

Besides, it would never be a Marion for Garnett swap. Phoenix would have to include one or two draft picks, as well as Kurt Thomas/Barbosa/Diaw etc.

Agreed. I would argue that Minnesota would be insane to do that tr5ade even with draft pics included. That's how good KG is.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Here we go again with the Marion vs. KG talk. I suppose it is inevitable when you talk about a KG trade.

1. No, Marion and KG are not equal, although they are not so far apart as some of you would make out.

2. KG's age (in NBA years) and contract bring them closer in trade value.

3. The fact that it is Minny that is looking to move the player makes them closer yet.

Eric, I can't see KG going to Atlanta. Would Atlanta bring KG any closer to a championship than Minny would? I don't think Minny would trade KG someplace he wasn't willing to go. They could theoretically, but he's shown them alot of loyalty and I would think they would reciprocate.

 

[Cheesebeef]

wow- the KG v. Marion debate has become to the Suns board what the old Josh McCown threads were on the Cards board. Both sides line up on their respective sides and never budge an inch.

i don't know how you guys continue to do it anymore beating the same topic to death over and over again.

commence un festival!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

No player is as quick at his age as they were back when they were 20.
He is, however, fast enough. Also, he is a better rebounder than Marion and he can run a fast break. He is a much better ball handler than Shawn.

Arguably Steven Nash is as fast as he ever has been.

Not at all. Both Amare and Kevin are versitile and can play in the post and on the free throw line. I am not sure how Garnett/Diaw/ Amare would work together, but Amare and KG would be just fine.

You do realize that Diaw is still on this team right? That would be an issue, even in your scenerio.

We agree on something.

Glad that we do.

How can they not be?

Just because a player is better when comparing the two, does not mean that they would make the team better. You could argue that Dirk is also better than Marion. Would the Suns be better with Dirk than Marion? You could atleast argue against it.

Agreed. I would argue that Minnesota would be insane to do that tr5ade even with draft pics included. That's how good KG is.

Maybe Minnesota is realizing that building around KG is not enough. If he was so good, there would never be KG trade talks, but they seem to happen every year, and Marion's name is the one usually in the mix.

 

[asudevil83]

you do relialize that you are talking about a notoriously crappy franchise/ownership who doesnt like to spend money and having them commit over $35mil on two players.

BTW Claxton just signed a 4 year $25mil contract and happens to be quite injury prone. he woudnt be pawned off so easily, especially considering Minny's other horrible contracts.

as far as a package from the suns goes, they have no use for Banks (they didnt even offer him a contract). KT/Marion/Jones/First for KG/Blount.

they shed a long term contract in Blount, while getting some defense and rebounding in KT. we do them a little favor, and get to keep our Atlanta pick.

otherwise, KG plays out the season, opts out and signs with some other champ team for the MLE. that would be crazy.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

As much as I like KT, I'd have to pull the trigger on that trade....

Nash/Banks
Bell/Barbosa
Diaw/Rose
Garnett/Rookie
Stoudemire/Blount/Rookie

 

[BirdMan21]

LOL on one of the Wolves Boards they think if KG were coming to PHX it would be a: (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18417)

Kevin Garnett
Marko Jaric or Troy Hudson

for

Amare Stoudamire
Kurt Thomas
Boris Diaw
Cap filler (couldn't get anything to work because of Amare's contract)

I am all for bringing KG here, and as much as I love Marion....I wouldn't have a problem moving him along with a few others to get KG. Marion has struggled in the playoffs, and KG has the 1 on 1 game that we can get him or Amare the ball in crunch time and they can either score or get to the line. Marion can't do that....while there are a lot of things that Marion brings to the table, its hard to pass up a player that will go down as one of the best to ever play (and a great teamate who just wants to win at the same time)

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Y'know? That trade is almost fair. Let's throw in Nash aand the 3 picks to even it out....

 

[BirdMan21]

Ya seriously....I was just laughing going through all the offers they were expecting for KG. I don't think they realize that KG can just opt out after this year so Minny has a little less leverage as they might have a while back. They will want to make a deal that gives them young talent and picks along with some proven player to fill in now for KG. I think that the Suns have the pieces to make it work...its just a question of if they think its the right move or not.

 

[asudevil83]

LOL on one of the Wolves Boards they think if KG were coming to PHX it would be a: (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18417)

Kevin Garnett
Marko Jaric or Troy Hudson

for

Amare Stoudamire
Kurt Thomas
Boris Diaw
Cap filler (couldn't get anything to work because of Amare's contract)

I am all for bringing KG here, and as much as I love Marion....I wouldn't have a problem moving him along with a few others to get KG. Marion has struggled in the playoffs, and KG has the 1 on 1 game that we can get him or Amare the ball in crunch time and they can either score or get to the line. Marion can't do that....while there are a lot of things that Marion brings to the table, its hard to pass up a player that will go down as one of the best to ever play (and a great teamate who just wants to win at the same time)

homerism works both ways. minny fans want too much like the above, while some suns fans think he can be had for something other than an allstar player as stated earlier in this thread.

 

[BirdMan21]

homerism works both ways. minny fans want too much like the above, while some suns fans think he can be had for something other than an allstar player as stated earlier in this thread.

Ya very true.....I just think sometimes it gets a little rediculous. I haven't seen any offers on here yet that I thought were as bad as that one though.