Kevin Garnett?

[asudevil83]

Ya very true.....I just think sometimes it gets a little rediculous. I haven't seen any offers on here yet that I thought were as bad as that one though.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=530550&start=216

close, but not quite as bad

PHOENIX
Shawn Marion, James Jones, Leandrino Barbosa, rights Atlanta's conditional first rounder, Phoenix's 2006 first rounder, rights to Cleveland's conditional first rounder via Boston

 

[Divide Et Impera]

From RealGM BB....

A really good Trade with Dallas

Damp (he is a monster and the second best center in the NBA),
Stack (his play is like MJ),
Croshere (very good, talented PF),
and Diop ( big shot blocker)
(1st round pick in 08, maybe 2010's too)

for
KG and Blount (as filler).

It`s a win win situation for both teams.

 

[Cheesebeef]

As much as I like KT, I'd have to pull the trigger on that trade....

Nash/Banks
Bell/Barbosa
Diaw/Rose
Garnett/Rookie
Stoudemire/Blount/Rookie

I'm thinking if that trade went down, you wouldn't see Diaw, Garnett and Amare on the floor together starting, if at all. With Amare and Garnett up front, there would be ZERO three point shooting from the front court and that just wouldn't happen with DA at the helm. I think you'd see something more along the line sof the 2004 Suns, going "small", with Nash/Bell/Barbosa starting in a three guard lineup, reminiscent of the Nash/JJ/Q trio, with Garnett playing the Marion role next to Amare.

That team would kill everyone with speed, shooting, ball handling and rebounding.

that being said, it won't happen.

 

[jandaman]

We all know KG is better than Marion.

But to assume KG will fit in as well as Marion is just what it is.. an assumption.

It would be better if you trade Amare for KG, but everyone here doesnt want that. Marion is a different type of player, KG cannot roam around like Marion.. KG cannot cover the perimeter all game. His effectiveness will be neutralize if you send him guarding the perimeter... KG needs to be where Amare is during defense... and during offense.

Having both and assuming each can score 50 points when guarded single handedly is another myth. The Suns revolve around Nash and finishers. Amare is the go to guy when the game slows down. Having KG there with him and assuming they will score every time they get the ball.... what exactly will they do differently... they will most likely run into each other... and if not KG will be on top of the key taking jump shots or finding Amare for the finish.... the Suns have that now in Diaw, Thomas, sometimes Amare and league MVP Nash. My point being, the Suns will go a lot of changes with KG there to be effective, you lose the wing man in Marion during fast breaks, you also risk losing Barbosa, as the wolves will not part with KG without that type of player... so you lose Marion and Barbosa... who provide so much for this system.

But in no way I said Marion > KG....

just that Marion has been working well with the system, he and Nash has been the common denominator in the Suns successful system.

 

[JWF]

I do agree Marion is very important to this team, but anytime you can have a dominant interior you take it. Bell, Nash, and Barbosa provide all the 3 point shooting this team will ever need, and having 2 PFs who can constantly draw double teams, will easily make up for what is lost with Marion.

It would be nice to have solid perimeter defense, but the problem with this team is interior defense and defensive rebounding. Most teams cant have it all, and its better to make teams take jump shots, then give up easy layups and dunks.

Anywho, this is all a bit pointless. I highly doubt KG will end up here. It would be awesome though.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Somebody has to explain to me why most people here are saying we would have to trade such an exorbitant amount (such as Marion, Barbs, and picks) for a player who is just going to opt out of his contract next year?

Kevin Garnett is obviously the mega-franchise player, but not exactly when he is taking a walk the next year. We are trading for KG at the end of his tour for that team.

As it is right now Minny would probably take Marion + KT + a pick to actually get something solid for a player technically on the last year of his contract and NOT looking to return.

They get marion for 2-3 years, they get the pick in a deep draft, and KT is solid and only has a year left on his contract after this year if they want to shed some salary.

If KG is walking next year (which I think is a 90% possibility) then unless someone else offers something better you take the suns offer, for the pick alone.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Well, you make a great point, but the problem is salary matching. Marion would obviously be the centerpiece from our end, but we'd still have to send an additional $8M in salary, or something like that. That's why there are so many players included. We'd have to trade Marion plus nearly the entire end of our bench to make a trade work. Then there's the roster size issue....

It's fun to talk about, but it just seems like an impossible thing to do. The most likely way to solve it is to find a 3rd team with some capspace to help facilitate this....

 

[CaptainInsano]

Well, you make a great point, but the problem is salary matching. Marion would obviously be the centerpiece from our end, but we'd still have to send an additional $8M in salary, or something like that. That's why there are so many players included. We'd have to trade Marion plus nearly the entire end of our bench to make a trade work. Then there's the roster size issue....

That's the point though there isn't a salary matching problem! I am almost positive KT would be included because his contract is 7.3 million which is almost on the dot for that 8 million.

Marion + KT = 22,425,625
KG = 21,000,000

Now if it works differently or there is any other stipulations then I do not understand how that works obviously, but from this view it looks completely solid.

Throw the pick in, and with KG walking next year how does minny NOT get a good deal?

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Oh, I see....

Man, I'd hate to lose KT, but I'd pull the trigger on that....

 

[pokerface]

x Both Amare and Garnett cannot have the ball at the same time. There is only one ball. They would basically would be stepping on each other's toes.

I suppose Tim Duncan and David Robinson were clamoring for the ball and stepping on each others toes too...all the way to the Spurs first championship. That really hindered them huh?


Also, KG and Amare have different types of games so they're not exactly fighting for the same floor space.

 

[pokerface]

Somebody has to explain to me why most people here are saying we would have to trade such an exorbitant amount (such as Marion, Barbs, and picks) for a player who is just going to opt out of his contract next year?



As it is right now Minny would probably take Marion + KT + a pick to actually get something solid for a player technically on the last year of his contract and NOT looking to return.



If KG is walking next year (which I think is a 90% possibility) then unless someone else offers something better you take the suns offer, for the pick alone.

Did you ever hear of a "sign and trade" or a "contract extension"? Thats usually whats involved in a deal like this. KG gets inked to a new deal before any trade goes down. Thats what happened with Tmac and numerous other players around the league.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Did you ever hear of a "sign and trade" or a "contract extension"? Thats usually whats involved in a deal like this. KG gets inked to a new deal before any trade goes down. Thats what happened with Tmac and numerous other players around the league.

What I was wondering about that was, if we have to match (closely) salarys do we have to match it to the new contract or his current contract?

I was going off his current contract.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Did you ever hear of a "sign and trade" or a "contract extension"? Thats usually whats involved in a deal like this. KG gets inked to a new deal before any trade goes down. Thats what happened with Tmac and numerous other players around the league.

But that doesn't change the deal as far as minnesota is concerned, because if they don't get something done, then KG walks next year, so it has no bearing on what the suns would need to trade to get KG.

Besides, I still think a Marion + Solid player for a year and then possible 8 million salary dump KT + Pick in a great draft

doesn't seem like a weak deal at all.

 

[pokerface]

But that doesn't change the deal as far as minnesota is concerned, because if they don't get something done, then KG walks next year, so it has no bearing on what the suns would need to trade to get KG..

Minny has plenty of time to get a deal done. They're not desperate. Because of that it has plenty to do with what the Suns would offer for him. Teams will be standing in line trying to get KG when he's officially on the trade blocks.

Besides, I still think a Marion + Solid player for a year and then possible 8 million salary dump KT + Pick in a great draft

doesn't seem like a weak deal at all.

Thats a so so average deal for Timberwolves. A lot of teams around the league could muster up a allstar/very good player + money filler player + 1st rounder for KG. Your deal is just average or slightly above....not enough to ensure getting Garnett.

Also, while Marion is a good trading chip he's not exactly ideal for the Twolves future plans as far as age goes. He's probably a couple years older than they would prefer since they would be in rebuild mode thats why some added compensation would be in order like extra draft picks and/or adding a better player/younger player than KT.

Yes I know KG is older than Marion but we're on a championship run with perhaps a time window of Nash's career. At least KG and Nash would be in the same window age-wise.

 

[hafey]

Yes I know KG is older than Marion but we're on a championship run with perhaps a time window of Nash's career. At least KG and Nash would be in the same window age-wise.

I guess my problem with the whole KG things is that I beleive we can win a championship this year with the current team, and I am not convinced that a trade involving KG would improve us so much as a champioship contender. Those pieces the Suns gave up in any trade could potentially ensure our window is longer than Nash's career.

 

[Covert Rain]

Minny has plenty of time to get a deal done. They're not desperate. Because of that it has plenty to do with what the Suns would offer for him. Teams will be standing in line trying to get KG when he's officially on the trade blocks.

It has nothing to do with wha the Suns will offer because your assuming the Suns would make a deal giving MT what they want. They won't. Plus, many teams would rather wait to see if KG becomes disgruntled. Once that happens, the Suns and other teams won't have to offer as much. It happens all the time.

Thats a so so average deal for Timberwolves. A lot of teams around the league could muster up a allstar/very good player + money filler player + 1st rounder for KG. Your deal is just average or slightly above....not enough to ensure getting Garnett.

KG is not worth an All Star +very good player +filler player +1st rounder. KG is no Michael Jordan. Talk about over estimating someones worth. KG is a great player but not at that price. If you think MT will get that then your going to be very dissapointed. Have you actually paid attention to the last big trades over the last 5 years?? No team gets that for it's stars. The only way to get even close to that is to involve a 3 way deal.

Also, while Marion is a good trading chip he's not exactly ideal for the Twolves future plans as far as age goes. He's probably a couple years older than they would prefer since they would be in rebuild mode thats why some added compensation would be in order like extra draft picks and/or adding a better player/younger player than KT.

Right because you know what your going to get with draft picks right? That's complete bunk. You always need a good mixture of young and veteran talent. Marion's age would be a non-factor unless they planned on trotting out 5 rookies to start.

Yes I know KG is older than Marion but we're on a championship run with perhaps a time window of Nash's career. At least KG and Nash would be in the same window age-wise.

I just don't think age is factor either way for either deal. If the team felt it was getting a good deal or championship piece then they would try and work something out. Deals are never as good as the teams want and never as outrageous as fans would like to see. If that was the case, MT would be getting Amare+Barbosa+James Jones+1 round draft pick.

 

[pokerface]

KG is not worth an All Star +very good player +filler player +1st rounder. KG is no Michael Jordan. Talk about over estimating someones worth. KG is a great player but not at that price. .

What are you talking about?? What was offered?

 

[MastersofCombat]

This team is too soft
You trade for KG, McCants for Amare, Banks, KT and first round pick

 

[Covert Rain]

What are you talking about?? What was offered?

I was referring to your comment that alot of teams could muster up such an offer. First off no they couldn't. Second no they wouldn't. Third he is not worth that. They only way the MT get a pipe dream deal like that is in a multi team trade. No 1 team will give that up for KG.

All you have to do is look at the star trades that have happened in the last 5 years. Bigger names have been traded and those teams didn't even get that much.

 

[pokerface]

I was referring to your comment that alot of teams could muster up such an offer. First off no they couldn't. .

A lot of teams couldnt muster up a star player + filler player + a draft pick for KG?? I think a lot of teams can do that for a player of KG's calibar.


If you're referring to when I said star player/very good player you're getting confused. The / means OR not +......But even according to that standard If the Suns did a Marion + Barbosa + draft pick for KG thats very do-able for both sides IMO.


Here is what I was referring to...

Besides, I still think a Marion + Solid player for a year and then possible 8 million salary dump KT + Pick in a great draft

doesn't seem like a weak deal at all.

Offering Marion + Kurt + 1st rd draft pick is not a great offer for KG. A lot of teams could makes offers of that level....its just an average offer the Twolves could take or leave.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Bigger names have been traded and those teams didn't even get that much.

Like who? The only person I can think of is Shaq.

He was traded for someone that should have been an Allstar (Odom, who averaged 17.1 PPG, 9.7 RPG and 4.1 APG the previous season in Miami), a very bright and upcomming star in Caron Butler (who looks like he will be an allstar this year) and a first round draft pick....

Then when you consider that Shaq was in a considerable decline in his career, and that Odom was only 24 at the time of the trade - that offer might even be a little more than a Marion/Barbosa/first rounder is at this point for KG.

I would like you to tell me a bigger name other than Shaq that has been traded in the last 5 years. KG is one of the 5 biggest names in the league.

 

[pokerface]

.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Right because you know what your going to get with draft picks right? That's complete bunk. You always need a good mixture of young and veteran talent. Marion's age would be a non-factor unless they planned on trotting out 5 rookies to start.

The problem with this statement is you are assuming that Minny wants to compete right after trading KG - which is pretty ridiculous.

When a team trades a player like KG, it happens for 1 reason - to blow everything up.

The only goal should be to get expiring contract (while unloading some bad ones of your own) in order to get far enough under the cap - and to get a couple of draft picks.

If Minny trades KG, by the time they were able to compete for a title Marion would be past his allstar time in his career.

 

[pokerface]

Like who? The only person I can think of is Shaq.

He was traded for someone that should have been an Allstar (Odom, who averaged 17.1 PPG, 9.7 RPG and 4.1 APG the previous season in Miami), a very bright and upcomming star in Caron Butler (who looks like he will be an allstar this year) and a first round draft pick....

Then when you consider that Shaq was in a considerable decline in his career, and that Odom was only 24 at the time of the trade - that offer might even be a little more than a Marion/Barbosa/first rounder is at this point for KG.

I would like you to tell me a bigger name other than Shaq that has been traded in the last 5 years. KG is one of the 5 biggest names in the league.

Thats an excellent example!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The real conversation shouldn't be what is KG worth, it should be what is he worth to the Suns. A year ago, I would have traded Barbosa/Marion and Atlanta's pick in a heartbeat.

Now, I am not so sure. Barbosa is the sticking point. Not only does he look like a phenominal scorer - he is tied into a very reasonable long term contract. You just cant give him up.

The only way the Suns could get KG is if a third team was involved. And like others have said, it would have to be a team that wanted Marion - because it makes zero sense for Minny to take him.

If it wound up costing the Suns some combination of Marion/KT/Banks/Atlanta's pick/Suns or Clevelands pick/JR I would probably do it (assuming it isn't everything in that list obviously) -- But the only way that happens is to find other trading partners.