Kevin Garnett?

[thegrahamcrackr]

Thats an excellent example!

The other part of that example - the league thought that the Lakers were fleeced, and should have gotten more.

If Kevin McHale wasn't the GM of the Timberwolves, you would have to think that they would point to that trade when fielding offers.

 

[Covert Rain]

Like who? The only person I can think of is Shaq.

He was traded for someone that should have been an Allstar (Odom, who averaged 17.1 PPG, 9.7 RPG and 4.1 APG the previous season in Miami), a very bright and upcomming star in Caron Butler (who looks like he will be an allstar this year) and a first round draft pick....

Then when you consider that Shaq was in a considerable decline in his career, and that Odom was only 24 at the time of the trade - that offer might even be a little more than a Marion/Barbosa/first rounder is at this point for KG.

I would like you to tell me a bigger name other than Shaq that has been traded in the last 5 years. KG is one of the 5 biggest names in the league.

Please tell me your not comparing the Shaq trade to a KG trade! That trade never crossed my mind because they are not in the same league. Shaq both times he was traded, shifted power in the division he was in. You can't possibly even think KG is even in the same league.

If this was Shaq from a few years ago I would have made that same trade in a heart beat. However, for KG?!?!?! Please. Like I said, nobody said that the Suns don't have the ABILITY to give up that much. It's if they would ever be that stupid. Considering there is no legit rumors coming out of the Suns office about such a trade, I would say they agree.

So you can keep coming up with these fantastical trades all you want. I guess dreaming is free. However, mark my words. When KG is traded they won't get a deal like the ones being suggested. Especially from one team! There only shot would be in a multi team deal.

 

[pokerface]

The real conversation shouldn't be what is KG worth, it should be what is he worth to the Suns. A year ago, I would have traded Barbosa/Marion and Atlanta's pick in a heartbeat.

Now, I am not so sure. Barbosa is the sticking point. Not only does he look like a phenominal scorer - he is tied into a very reasonable long term contract. You just cant give him up.

.

It would be hard to give Barbosa up. I still would probably do it but I'd have mixed feelings over the deal but you have to give quality to get quality. Besides, a team of Nash, Amare, KG would be one of the hottest tickets in the sports world. The Suns could make killer money marketing that dream.


The great thing about the Suns being a trade partner with Minny is we have a lot of things they would want. Its just a matter of finding the right combination that both sides would agree too.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Look. We're a contender right now. This team has chemistry right now.

It seems that some fans' motto is.

"If it ain't broke, fix it until it is."

 

[Cheesebeef]

Look. We're a contender right now. This team has chemistry right now.

It seems that some fans' motto is.

"If it ain't broke, fix it until it is."

I really think the motto that some fans have is "until it's a CHAMPION, fix it until it is".

As far as chemistry - I don't know about that - there's something a little off about this year, even in winning since our pathetic start.

 

[elindholm]

Eric, I can't see KG going to Atlanta. Would Atlanta bring KG any closer to a championship than Minny would?

I think so. Joe Johnson is much better than any other player on the Wolves right now, and Pachulia and Smith aren't exactly slouches either. Minnesota has Garnett, Ricky Davis, and nobody. And I mean, nobody.

I don't think Minny would trade KG someplace he wasn't willing to go. They could theoretically, but he's shown them alot of loyalty and I would think they would reciprocate.

I think they'd try to, but currently good team has the right pieces for a trade, in my opinion. (Unless I'm forgetting about someone.) If Garnett really wants out, he'll eventually realize that he won't be finding a perfect situation, and he'll resign himself for one that looks merely less hopeless.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Please tell me your not comparing the Shaq trade to a KG trade! That trade never crossed my mind because they are not in the same league. Shaq both times he was traded, shifted power in the division he was in. You can't possibly even think KG is even in the same league.

The fact that you think Shaq's value to a team is so much higher than KGs at this point in their respective careers explains why there is such a disagreement on value.

 

[pokerface]

The fact that you think Shaq's value to a team is so much higher than KGs at this point in their respective careers explains why there is such a disagreement on value.

I'm not sure what his point is...I thought he was saying KG is worth so much more now.


My opinion....KG and Shaq are in the same ballpark value wise thats why it was a good comparison.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think so. Joe Johnson is much better than any other player on the Wolves right now, and Pachulia and Smith aren't exactly slouches either. Minnesota has Garnett, Ricky Davis, and nobody. And I mean, nobody.



I think they'd try to, but currently good team has the right pieces for a trade, in my opinion. (Unless I'm forgetting about someone.) If Garnett really wants out, he'll eventually realize that he won't be finding a perfect situation, and he'll resign himself for one that looks merely less hopeless.

OK. Let me rephrase the question. Would KG have ANY reasonable chance at all of winning a championship in Atlanta? Being better than Minnesota is one thing, being close to a contender is another.

I guess its pointless talk. Half of us on this board think we could get but we are not sure we want to give up what it would take to get him. The other half would absolutely love to have him but think we have no chance of getting him. Same result either way.

And, as Yogi would say "then there is the third half."

 

[JCSunsfan]

Oh and about chemistry. We are seeing encouraging things this year in the very things we were weak on last year. We are much better defensively, and we are rebounding much better.

Now, it just seems that we go through some long offensive droughts late in games. My solution to that would be to feed Amare in the paint we we start to run into trouble like that. Right now, the team seems to think the way to get out of an offensive slump is to shoot threes.

 

[pokerface]

OK. Let me rephrase the question. Would KG have ANY reasonable chance at all of winning a championship in Atlanta? Being better than Minnesota is one thing, being close to a contender is another.

KG would have to go along with a sign and trade....thats why he would never end up in Atlanta.

 

[elindholm]

OK. Let me rephrase the question. Would KG have ANY reasonable chance at all of winning a championship in Atlanta?

Why not? A lot can change in five years -- in 2000-01, would anyone have been able to predict last year's final four? -- and Garnett should still be an elite player then. Joe Johnson is seventh in the league in scoring, on an adjusted FG% of 55%. Pachulia is putting up solid numbers at center and is only 22; Smith is still a week shy of 21. That's some pretty significant young talent. If you had to place a bet now on the 2011 conference finalists, you could do a lot worse than Atlanta.

I guess its pointless talk. Half of us on this board think we could get but we are not sure we want to give up what it would take to get him. The other half would absolutely love to have him but think we have no chance of getting him.

I guess you are in the first half and think that I'm in the second, but that's not really the case. I think that in terms of talent, the Suns could make a good offer, and maybe it would be the best offer that Minnesota got, although I doubt that because of the Wolves' long-term priorities.

But, the bottom line is that it's all moot, because the Suns aren't trading Marion, not for Garnett, not for anyone. They convinced me of that last summer.

 

[virtual_9mm]

I'm sure everyone here would want Garnett on the Suns. The question is - at what cost?

An idea that has been mentioned:

Marion + Barbosa + ATL pick for Garnett

For now, let's forget about feasibility - and look at the way that this affects the Suns. You upgrade substantially at SF; Garnett is still the best SF in the league except possibly LeBron. However, you take away your best bench player - who is also your third guard. Not to mention that the Suns would be throwing away their chance to pick up a young KG (e.g. Brandon Wright).

In my book, that's too much to give up, even for Garnett. The Suns have a title-caliber team. With KG, you strengthen one position, but leave the Suns weak in the backcourt. Besides, you're mortgaging the Suns' future.

 

[pokerface]

I'm sure everyone here would want Garnett on the Suns. The question is - at what cost?

An idea that has been mentioned:

Marion + Barbosa + ATL pick for Garnett

For now, let's forget about feasibility - and look at the way that this affects the Suns. You upgrade substantially at SF; Garnett is still the best SF in the league except possibly LeBron. However, you take away your best bench player - who is also your third guard. Not to mention that the Suns would be throwing away their chance to pick up a young KG (e.g. Brandon Wright).

In my book, that's too much to give up, even for Garnett. The Suns have a title-caliber team. With KG, you strengthen one position, but leave the Suns weak in the backcourt. Besides, you're mortgaging the Suns' future.

The Suns would still have two first round draft picks remaining plus Diaw who is versatile enough to play multiple positions. So I dont get how we are "mortgaging our future" or "weaking our backcourt". Look no team is perfect in every area anyway...there will always be weaknesses.

The Suns gain another player in KG who besides Amare who can draw the doubleteam. Having two unstoppable players plus a MVP pg in Nash dishing them the ball would create nightmares for opposing teams. KG gives us more offense, defense, and rebounding. The defense and rebounding is something the Suns are always wanting more of.

Yeah Barbosa is good...thats why packaging him with Marion and a draft pick would go a long way towards getting KG. Anything less than that probably wouldnt get it done....and its a price the Suns could pay easily.

 

[pokerface]

The real conversation shouldn't be what is KG worth, it should be what is he worth to the Suns.

Unfortunately a lot of people on here find that concept difficult to grasp. They get all nitpicky trying to get every ounce of value on a deal instead of looking at the bigger picture.

I say the Suns can afford to overpay for KG if it puts them over the top. KG and Nash will be good for another couple years anyway...the Suns could win two or three titles in that time. Thats saying a lot considering the Suns never won any championships.

If the Suns got KG they go from being one of the favorites to THE favorite to winning it all.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

What some of you are not considering is that KG has about as much say as anyone could have in where he is traded. Why? He won't sign an extension with a team that he will not want to play for and will be a FA this summer. So, I don't think that even if ATL offered Johnson/Smith/Williams/Pachulia/10 #1s, the trade would not be made. Could it be made? Sure, but would ATL trade all that for three-quarters of a season with KG? Would KG sign an extension there if ATL traded all that? So, when KG decides to make his list of preferred teams, rest assured that he WILL make it to one of those teams. If he threatens to walk from MIN, they will get what they can by February. If it weren't for the salary problems, PHX has the best chance of trading Marion/Others/picks to get KG, period, because when that trade is done, KG is STILL going to an immediate contender with at least Nash/Bell/Stoudemire/Barbosa/Diaw left on the team....

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Oh, and if it weren't for the salary problems, as mentioned earlier, the trade COULD be Marion/picks for KG. Unfortunately, there's the salary cap to deal with and an $8M gap to account for. Barbosa will NOT be included in any trade, IMO....

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm sure everyone here would want Garnett on the Suns. The question is - at what cost?

An idea that has been mentioned:

Marion + Barbosa + ATL pick for Garnett

For now, let's forget about feasibility - and look at the way that this affects the Suns. You upgrade substantially at SF; Garnett is still the best SF in the league except possibly LeBron. However, you take away your best bench player - who is also your third guard. Not to mention that the Suns would be throwing away their chance to pick up a young KG (e.g. Brandon Wright).

In my book, that's too much to give up, even for Garnett. The Suns have a title-caliber team. With KG, you strengthen one position, but leave the Suns weak in the backcourt. Besides, you're mortgaging the Suns' future.

It would have to be something like that just because of cap issues. Minny is already stocked at LB's position so he would just be cap filler to them, maybe a piece to deal to someone else. There was talk about giving up all 3 of our picks this year, which is way too much. At some point we need to develop more young players for the future.

 

[elindholm]

Why does everyone keep saying that Garnett will be a free agent this summer? That's simply false. He has an opt-out. If he exercises it, he's giving up $46 million of salary over the next two years. He won't do it unless the situation is really grim. All his new team needs is to get him to agree not to opt out. They don't need him to sign an extension.

The threat that he'll leave the Wolves is part of what's fueling the trade speculation, but very few franchises are in the bad shape that the Wolves are in right now. Take a look at their salary commitments and you'll see how dire their straits are.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

All his new team needs is to get him to agree not to opt out. They don't need him to sign an extension.

Whatever. It ends up having the same effect on a trade. No team is going to give up a significant trade package for three-quarters of a season with KG and KG is not going agree to not opt out to go to a team that is gutted by acquiring him....

 

[elindholm]

No team is going to give up a significant trade package for three-quarters of a season with KG and KG is not going agree to not opt out to go to a team that is gutted by acquiring him...

True, but Atlanta wouldn't have to gut themselves to acquire him. Garnett/Johnson/Pachulia/Smith is a playoff team already, and at least two of those players still have great room for improvement.

 

[hafey]

First, no basketball playe is going to give up 46 million dollars over two years especially when they are only 31. Garnett obviously can't be that in love with winning a championship or he would've agitated in Minnesota already. They've been going no way for a long time.

I think the point about it not being Garnett's absolute value, but his value to the Suns is crucial. We can all agree that the Suns are one of the teams that has the pieces to make a trade, but would the trade really help a team that was already picked by many pundits as a championship favorite? Look at it like a stock. How much can it go down. How much can it go up.

The upside. Garnett makes a team that is already solid inside, as they showed last night, better. Suns scoring stays the same, but defense inproves somewhat. Suns still title favorite.

Downside. Already fragile chemistry is once again dramatically changed, the Suns stuggle and limp into the playoffs without any homecourt the most dangerous team in the West. Garnett's slight scoring advantage over Marion is nullified by the loss of someone like Barbossa. Scoring decreases, defense increases and the net difference remains the same while the Suns have gotten less deep. Suns trade a draft pick or two sacrifing the future in potentially the deepest draft in a generation.

For me, a trade during the season simply does not outweigh the real and potential costs.


Also, I tihnk Orlando could potentially offer a very competative deal. They have over 25 million dollars in expiring contracts along with a couple decent young players.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Just say no to KG! He plays for a paycheck and nothing else!

 

[slinslin]

Just say no to KG! He plays for a paycheck and nothing else!

Absolutely untrue.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

True, but Atlanta wouldn't have to gut themselves to acquire him. Garnett/Johnson/Pachulia/Smith is a playoff team already, and at least two of those players still have great room for improvement.

Uh, what do you have ATL giving up? They get him with Childress/Claxton/Williams. At least one of those ATL players you have listed with KG would have to go. If it were Johnson/Childress/Claxton/filler, that MIGHT be a starting point for negotiation, but them getting it done without either Johnson+ or Pachulia/Smith+ just ain't feasible....