Kidd close to being a Maverick again

[Mainstreet]

though i would have loved to see the mavs lose stack the suns killer, i am still optimistic about this trade from a suns standpoint.

kidd will make the mavs better against most teams. i think objectively it is difficult to argue against that fact. my only question with acquiring him is a similar question posed to the suns . . . a matter of style. just as people question the suns' ability to incorporate a slower half-court type player in shaq, the mavs' offense has largely been predicated on one-on-one iso's. the low number of assists is a great indicator of such. kidd needs a slightly more movement in the offense to be effective, much like steve nash.

but more importantly (to suns fans), this trade lowers the mavs ability to compete with the suns. for years the two places to attack the suns were at the rim and at the point. nash just cannot effectively defense quick pgs. harris in particular gave him fits. nash just couldn't stay in front of him. replacing harris with kidd means much less of an issue for nash, which in turn means less help defense necessary. and with kidd shooting in the 30 - 35% range, nash WILL sag considerably off him. our defense just got a lot better against the mavs.

and the second prong is a new twist for the suns . . . and it's shaq-based. the loss of diop means one less big body in the post to defend against shaq. it means its ericka dampier or no one against shaq. and we all know what shaq thinks of ericka. this leaves the mavs with ericka, dirk, and bass as their only post defenders, and two of those cannot even hope to defend shaq, and those two also will never be effective on amare. damp and diop had some limited success against amare due to their size, but now they won't be covering amare . . . dirk and bass will be. advantage suns. big time.

so while this trade may be overall in dallas' interest, it weakens them against the suns. imho.

You make some very good issues.

IMO, Kidd is most effective in an open court running game because of his mediocre (at best) outside shooting. Also the Mavs lack height. The Mavs will really need to focus on running (reminds me of past Suns teams). I'm not overly familiar with the Mavs roster but they seem to be lacking height except Dirk, a sometimes effective Dampier, Bass and the rookie big (Nick ...). To win it all the Mavs really need to rely on the 1-3 positions to get it done. Dirk although tall plays more like a SF.

So the Mavs may need to really try to run a GS offense which will cause them trouble the deeper they go in the playoffs. Maybe the Mavs are planning on making another trade?

 

[devilalum]

Jason Kidd is one of the few PGs that Nash can effectively defend by himself.

 

[Covert Rain]

I will say that if Keith Van Horn is part of this trade only to turn around and retire again after the deal is done...the league would have to step in again. I think something smells fishy when a player who retired decides to come back to play for the Nets?

 

[SunsFanVegas]

Damn straight it's fishy. I thought the same thing when I heard they were going to do the trade with Van Horn. This is just as bad as trading Stackhouse and then letting him come back after 30 days. It's not right and shouldn't be allowed. He'll have to at least 'practice' with the team, but then can fake a season ending injury to stay retired and collect his paychecks. This is just underhanded and wrong.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I assume it works under the rules. KVH has not signed retirement papers. From KVH's point of view, its a 4.3 million windfall, and he doesn't have to play a minute.

 

[Covert Rain]

I assume it works under the rules. KVH has not signed retirement papers. From KVH's point of view, its a 4.3 million windfall, and he doesn't have to play a minute.

True but if they are using KVH as a way of circumventing the cap the league can step in. They would be basically paying him off to be part of a trade and yet still allow him to retire the minute the deal is done.

If the league has any sense it shouldn't allow this version of the deal either until KVH is in uniform and playing games for the Mavs. If not, I bet this guy never puts on his sneakers.

 

[green machine]

True but if they are using KVH as a way of circumventing the cap the league can step in. They would be basically paying him off to be part of a trade and yet still allow him to retire the minute the deal is done.

If the league has any sense it shouldn't allow this version of the deal either until KVH is in uniform and playing games for the Mavs. If not, I bet this guy never puts on his sneakers.

The Lakers did it in their trade by signing Aaron McKie, so I don't see why the league should not allow the Mavs to do it with Van Horn.

 

[mojorizen7]

DAVID STERN
"The Corrupt Years"
NON-FICTION

You must be registered for see images attach

---------------------
Coming soon to a Barnes & Noble near you.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

The Lakers did it in their trade by signing Aaron McKie, so I don't see why the league should not allow the Mavs to do it with Van Horn.

I agree that it is within the terms of the current CBA, but I would bet that a rule change will get some serious consideration either this offseason or when the current CBA is renegotiated. It is an obvious attempt to circumvent the rules of the CBA.

 

[Gorilla]

this has got to be the funniest, most complicated trade ever.... check this out....

http://blog.nj.com/netsblast/2008/0...l_falk_spe.html

Just got off the phone with David Falk, who as everyone knows, is the uberagent that represents Keith Van Horn.

And if you think all this is a fait accompli, hold on to your hat.

"I can't tell you his intentions, because I told Keith and both owners that this thing has been so tortured, it's best for everyone to just chill out and find out what the league has to say," Falk said.

Nice image, that. David Falk, calming voice of tranquility.

Actually, Falk already knows that the league will probably (likely) tell him that Van Horn has to report to the Nets for one month in order for this deal to be kosher.

"I understand," he said. "But in my history with the league since 1974, I can't remember a trade that has created more drama than this one - from Jerry (Stackhouse) being waived and going back, and a player worried about his Bird rights.

"I told everyone when Van Horn was mentioned in the trade that my strong advice is, 'If you want to do something, you better do it quietly.' And if this has a chance to happen, step back and let some time pass or it would probably ruin the trade."




Odd thing to say, we thought. Falk might be a bloody genius when it comes to doing NBA business, but there's not much he does quietly.

Unless, of course, his client absolutely insists he wants it that way.

And suddenly, that seems to be the important factor in this trade: Keith either has cold feet, or feels that a $2M payday for taking a physical is shameless and needs time to think it through, or he just doesn't want any part of it.

Falk won't say which is closest to the truth.

"I really can't say," the agent said. "He wants some quiet time to reflect on it. And that's what he should be doing.

"He'll make a decision, but it's not going to be 'maybe,' or 70-30. Either he'll do it or he won't do it. And we'll all know in the next 48 to 72 hours."

Not a hint, a high-sign, an indication either way?

"No. I can't indicate either way," Falk said.

Family issue? Are the teams asking too much for Keith to take an unexpected separation from his wife and kids for a month?

"Let's say this," Falk concluded. "Keith is a guy of high integrity, and he has a great relationship with Mark Cuban and Rod Thorn, and he would like to help them both. But he's engaged in some other things, and he has a lot of responsibilities. Now he just has to see if it's workable before he decides what to do. And right now, I don't know what he's going to do."

 

[elindholm]

Translation: Van Horn has a couple of wives in New Jersey, and he wants to avoid running into them.

 

[Covert Rain]

Actually, Falk already knows that the league will probably (likely) tell him that Van Horn has to report to the Nets for one month in order for this deal to be kosher.

That is the most telling part. It's obvious that putting KVH in the deal was no more then an attempt to make the numbers work and he probably had no intentions of every playing with the Nets. So now everything changes for him if he has to play for a month.

Evidently, with all the attention around this trade, I think the league has to scrutinize this deal more closely. Especially, with another obvious attempt at circumventing the cap.

This is a soap opera trade for sure.

 

[Lorenzo]

I think the trade of Gasol to the Lakers obviously started this latest trading frenzy. Just looking at the trades of Gasol, Shaq and Kidd, it appears the safest of the three trades is probably for Gasol. I think the Suns and Mavericks are both hoping that the players they acquired still have some gas in the tank and can win them a Championship in the next couple of seasons. Of course the plum trade of the season was for KG. Here's hoping. I definitely do not want the Lakers or SA winning it

I agree with you. the lakers unloaded a player they didn't want, and got an all star caliber low post player. gasol doesn't get much hype around the league but he's one of the few bigs in the league that has a genuine low block game. adding that to kobe makes them instant contenders. don't forget about bynum and a sudden supporting cast that looks solid. again that got him for nothing.

both the mavs and the suns gave up a lot to get what they got. the mavs offensively got too stagnant and I feel they got desperate, but I like kidd. the problem is the window just got a lot smaller for the mavs....like some of you said I like barea too. but he's a BUP at this point at best. He is best when he comes off the bench for a spark. he's a good shooter and gets to the cup in a surprising fashion. but he gives up a lot with his size and can easily be exploited when he stays in a game too long like you guys probably saw in the game last week. I really will miss harris. When his outside shot drops he's almost impossible for anyone to guard. I honestly wish the mavs didn't give up on him like they did. I guess they just want consistency. which is what harris lacks as a younger player. I think his best matchup was against SA. He always seems to give them fits. He only seems to be effective against phoenix when he is knocking down 3's which is what they always baited him into. I don't know that kidd will hurt dallas' matchup against the suns. Losing diop may.....if shaq can return to his old self of 3 or 4 years ago. Shaq is not nearly what he once was offensively and he can't even seem to ever stay on the court anymore. but who knows, maybe this move can help him get back. I actually thought the mavs would try to get him. I thought he would have really fit in dallas(even if he only played minimal mins per game).

 

[dodie53]

if kobe is injured,
the lakers are not title contenders

 

[arwillan]

if kobe is injured,
the lakers are not title contenders

where did you get such insight?

 

[TheHopToad]

I haven't seen David Falk in the news since MJ retired. I didn't realize he was still in the biz. Maybe he can get KVH a new shoe deal out of this.

 

[phxrising]

Didn't see this point in this thread - The Mavs will also have to waive someone to make this deal happen so they can "sign" KVH before they trade him.

Who do they waive and how long before someone can pick that person up?

 

[WuRaider]

Didn't see this point in this thread - The Mavs will also have to waive someone to make this deal happen so they can "sign" KVH before they trade him.

Who do they waive and how long before someone can pick that person up?

RealGM says they will either waive Juwan Howard or some rook named Fakkazass. Can Juwan still move? We should pick him up for the vet min just to make our roster look nicer.

 

[Lorenzo]

Didn't see this point in this thread - The Mavs will also have to waive someone to make this deal happen so they can "sign" KVH before they trade him.

Who do they waive and how long before someone can pick that person up?

dallas morning news has them cutting the young guy. I'd just cut howard, but maybe they plan on using him more with diop gone.

 

[Lefty]

ESPN News is reporting Van Horn has agreed to the trade.

 

[BeeBeard]

dallas morning news has them cutting the young guy. I'd just cut howard, but maybe they plan on using him more with diop gone.

I'm having trouble believing this is a problem for them (but after seeing every dramatic turn of events possible with this one trade, hey, why not?). Right now, pre-trade, the Mavericks have 15 players on their roster, which is already the maximum they are allowed to have. So if they were just going to sign KVH, then yes, absolutely it would be an issue--they'd have no choice but to cut somebody who has guaranteed money.

But do they really have to sign Keith Van Horn first? Since the first version of the trade was technically going to be two separate trades, isn't this one going to be divided into two transactions as well? And if that's the case, then why not send over Ager, Hassell, etc., and THEN sign KVH?

I say this because there really is nobody the Mavericks can afford to get rid of except for the players they're already trading. Right on down the list, I don't think they can realistically spare even one more player.

 

[Lorenzo]

I'm having trouble believing this is a problem for them (but after seeing every dramatic turn of events possible with this one trade, hey, why not?). Right now, pre-trade, the Mavericks have 15 players on their roster, which is already the maximum they are allowed to have. So if they were just going to sign KVH, then yes, absolutely it would be an issue--they'd have no choice but to cut somebody who has guaranteed money.

But do they really have to sign Keith Van Horn first? Since the first version of the trade was technically going to be two separate trades, isn't this one going to be divided into two transactions as well? And if that's the case, then why not send over Ager, Hassell, etc., and THEN sign KVH?

I say this because there really is nobody the Mavericks can afford to get rid of except for the players they're already trading. Right on down the list, I don't think they can realistically spare even one more player.

who cares. and yeah they can't afford to lose anyone else. if you can keep stack and george and give up a guy they doesn't play anymore why wouldn't you?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

So heres a funny series of events

Fazekas sent to dleague

does well in d league

gets nominated for d-league allstar game

gets called back up to mavericks, leaves d-league

cant play in dleague allstar game because is now part of nba

gets cut by mavericks

Meanwhile,

retired mav sitting at home with millions in the bank
gets call out of the blue for a 4(?) million dollar benchriding deal.

add that to the devean george debacle, and the stackhouse drama, and this is one of the most ridiculous trade efforts ive ever heard of.

 

[WuRaider]

You must be registered for see images attach

Amare: ........ Bobblehead?

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Ode to Ocho]

What a horrendously ugly looking kid.