Kidd close to being a Maverick again

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abomb

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How is this not tampering?

"Now I think it's pretty much a done deal," Stackhouse told The Associated Press.

Stackhouse added that he may be able to rejoin Dallas within 30 days, an indication the Nets would buy out his contract.

"I feel great. I get 30 days to rest, then I'll be right back," he said. "I ain't going nowhere."
 

YouJustGotSUNSD

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Guys, please consider not bashing the trade. Just a week ago everyone was flipping out that the suns were doomed for bringing in an old allstar, now we are cautiously optimistic and anxious for the future (in general)

Acknowledge the trade need from Dallas' point of view first, then bash the crap out of it.



p.s. this is worse than the shaq trade.
 

joshstmarie

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Hollinger on kidd trade -"This isn't nearly as bad as the Shaq trade -- let me get that out of the way up front."


:lmao:
 

mjb21aztd

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I think people seem to forget we also have amare next to shaq....
 

BuddyFranklin

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Are you guys serious? This is a sensational deal for the MAVS.

Kidd/Howard/Dirk - Is as impressive big 3 going around. Add a returning Stack, Terry (who always kills us) and Damp. They are right there.
 

YouJustGotSUNSD

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Nash = Kidd
Barbs = Terry, Bell = Stackhouse
Hill = Howard
Dirk = Amare
Shaq > Dampier

Diaw > Bass
Skinner > ?
DJ = JJ Barea
 

Covert Rain

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Are you guys serious? This is a sensational deal for the MAVS.

Kidd/Howard/Dirk - Is as impressive big 3 going around. Add a returning Stack, Terry (who always kills us) and Damp. They are right there.

Stack is going in the trade. There is no guarantee he will be bought out or cut. Not to mention return to Dallas. Damp?!?! That doesn't help them.
 

BeeBeard

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Who the hell is Hollinger?


John Hollinger is the phony a-word who invented PER (Player Efficiency Rating) and then goes around telling people that "higher PER" is the same as "better than."

This list of Career PER leaders may give you a reason to be skeptical toward anything Hollinger has to say:

Code:
Rank    Player                    PER
---------------------------------------
1       Michael Jordan            27.91
2       Shaquille O'Neal*         27.63
3       David Robinson            26.18
4       Wilt Chamberlain          26.16
5       Bob Pettit                25.41
6       Tim Duncan*               25.17
7       Neil Johnston             24.78
8       Charles Barkley           24.63
9       Kareem Abdul-Jabbar       24.58
10      LeBron James*             24.24
11      Magic Johnson             24.11
12      Karl Malone               23.89
13      Tracy McGrady*            23.88
14      Dirk Nowitzki*            23.84
15      Kevin Garnett*            23.84
16      Hakeem Olajuwon           23.59
17      Julius Erving             23.57
18      Larry Bird                23.50
19      Kobe Bryant*              23.49
20      Yao Ming*                 23.22
21      Oscar Robertson           23.20
22      Jerry West                22.92
23      Elton Brand*              22.75
24      Elgin Baylor              22.72
25      Dolph Schayes             22.02
You'll note that according to Hollinger's little number-crunching game, David Robinson is the third best, all-time. You know, ever. As in, ahead of Barkley, Dream, Larry Bird, Kareem, Magic, etc. Seriously.

Reasonable people would point out that Hollinger is probably full of crap, or at the very least is overstating the importance of the phony performance metric that he himself created.
 

Griffin

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I think this trade has to be looked at without taking Stackhouse into equation, as he will most likely be back with the Mavs.
"I feel great. I get 30 days to rest, then I'll be right back," he said. "I ain't going nowhere."
So it's basically Harris and Diop for Kidd. Diop wasn't playing much after Dampier came back and Harris is hurt. This is not a bad trade for Dallas. They add a former all-star, all-nba and future HOF, and they keep Howard.
 

French Fries

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John Hollinger is the phony a-word who invented PER (Player Efficiency Rating) and then goes around telling people that "higher PER" is the same as "better than."

This list of Career PER leaders may give you a reason to be skeptical toward anything Hollinger has to say:

Code:
Rank    Player                    PER
---------------------------------------
1       Michael Jordan            27.91
2       Shaquille O'Neal*         27.63
3       David Robinson            26.18
4       Wilt Chamberlain          26.16
5       Bob Pettit                25.41
6       Tim Duncan*               25.17
7       Neil Johnston             24.78
8       Charles Barkley           24.63
9       Kareem Abdul-Jabbar       24.58
10      LeBron James*             24.24
11      Magic Johnson             24.11
12      Karl Malone               23.89
13      Tracy McGrady*            23.88
14      Dirk Nowitzki*            23.84
15      Kevin Garnett*            23.84
16      Hakeem Olajuwon           23.59
17      Julius Erving             23.57
18      Larry Bird                23.50
19      Kobe Bryant*              23.49
20      Yao Ming*                 23.22
21      Oscar Robertson           23.20
22      Jerry West                22.92
23      Elton Brand*              22.75
24      Elgin Baylor              22.72
25      Dolph Schayes             22.02
You'll note that according to Hollinger's little number-crunching game, David Robinson is the third best, all-time. You know, ever. As in, ahead of Barkley, Dream, Larry Bird, Kareem, Magic, etc. Seriously.

Reasonable people would point out that Hollinger is probably full of crap, or at the very least is overstating the importance of the phony performance metric that he himself created.


tracy mcgrady? 13th?
 

WuRaider

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Nash = Kidd
Barbs = Terry, Bell = Stackhouse
Hill = Howard
Dirk = Amare
Shaq > Dampier

Diaw > Bass
Skinner > ?
DJ = JJ Barea

Nash > Kidd
Barbs < Terry, Bell = Stackhouse
Hill < Howard
Dirk < Amare
Shaq > Dampier
 

Mainstreet

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Lorenzo

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Nash > Kidd
Barbs < Terry, Bell = Stackhouse
Hill < Howard
Dirk < Amare
Shaq > Dampier
amare is a different player then dirk, but not necessarily better. I'd say the same about nash and kidd. nash is a better offensive player no doubt...especially as a scorer.
as a mavs fan I don't like the trade a whole lot. I really liked harris. He was really coming along well. without him over the last two weeks the mavs have really seen their biggest woe exsposed. no dribble penetration coming from the point guard position combined with a PG who can set up others. the only person setting others up has been dirk. I think harris' only weakness has been his assist totals. but that was getting better and his outside shot is much better. He is as fast if not faster than anyone else in the league. I don't mind losing those other players. they were giving the mavs little to nothing this year......to include stackhouse. if he comes back....fine. he's a team leader and can play when healthy. I don't like this trade for the future of the mavs. but for the present......this is really just what the doctor ordered if kidd can play as expected.
 

fordronken

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I think it helps them against certain teams, but not all of them. The Mavs have been a team that has choked down the stretch and gotten rattled easily. I think this helps them, but maybe not as much as some people think. I just keep remembering Kidd, Marion and Clifford Robinson standing around figuring out what to do down the stretch of playoff games.

But Diop has done a good job against us and so has Harris. Slow, aging point guards haven't been a big problem the past few years, and Kidd will probably lead the Mavs to more turnovers and a faster pace-- all getting us more fast break points. I also think they're gonna have a really tough time matching up with Shaq and Amare. Either Nowitzki's going to have to guard Stoudemire, or Brandon Bass is going to get a lot of minutes.
 

Mainstreet

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amare is a different player then dirk, but not necessarily better. I'd say the same about nash and kidd. nash is a better offensive player no doubt...especially as a scorer.
as a mavs fan I don't like the trade a whole lot. I really liked harris. He was really coming along well. without him over the last two weeks the mavs have really seen their biggest woe exsposed. no dribble penetration coming from the point guard position combined with a PG who can set up others. the only person setting others up has been dirk. I think harris' only weakness has been his assist totals. but that was getting better and his outside shot is much better. He is as fast if not faster than anyone else in the league. I don't mind losing those other players. they were giving the mavs little to nothing this year......to include stackhouse. if he comes back....fine. he's a team leader and can play when healthy. I don't like this trade for the future of the mavs. but for the present......this is really just what the doctor ordered if kidd can play as expected.

I remember you saying you liked Devin Harris a lot and you were completely right. I think Jason Kidd is definitely a downgrade even now for Dallas much less looking towards the future. I think Phoenix made their gamble move for Shaq out of need but I think Dallas just over-reacted because they had a nice PG.
 

Covert Rain

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amare is a different player then dirk, but not necessarily better.

You almost ruined the rest of your post at the start. However, I will find it in my heart to forgive your crazed comment and move on.....

as a mavs fan I don't like the trade a whole lot. I really liked harris. He was really coming along well. without him over the last two weeks the mavs have really seen their biggest woe exsposed. no dribble penetration coming from the point guard position combined with a PG who can set up others. the only person setting others up has been dirk. I think harris' only weakness has been his assist totals. but that was getting better and his outside shot is much better. He is as fast if not faster than anyone else in the league.

I will tell you as a Suns fan when DH first played against us we didn't care about him. Hoped he would get the ball. However, the last few time we played the Mavs he hit some big shots and was able to get to the bucket. He was starting to mature IMO.

I don't mind losing those other players. they were giving the mavs little to nothing this year......to include stackhouse. if he comes back....fine. he's a team leader and can play when healthy. I don't like this trade for the future of the mavs. but for the present......this is really just what the doctor ordered if kidd can play as expected.

Your going to find out just like the Suns did that Kidd makes your team better when he is hitting his shot. However, when he is cold and people start doubling Dirk or Howard, your team is going to struggle. In some ways you just got better with Kidd and in some ways worse.
 

AceP

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Dallas gave up too much for Kidd, Harris is future, Diop is a key part in their rotation, even Geroge is very servicable. Can they really get Stackhouse back? Even if so, rest Stackhouse for 30 days, while Kidd trying to fit into system, is it a good thing? As Mark Cuban himself said, they give up half a team for Kidd. Gasol and Shaq trade must have made him mad, especially, it was us stealed Shaq.

Medias, as usual praise Dallas deal and keep bashing us. Good work, so-called-experts, we'll make u eat ur words!
 

AceP

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Here is another interesting point, I just saw it on ESPN. Is stackhouse an ideal last piece for us?

No, we're not done yet -- there's one final point to consider. The Nets will likely buy out Stackhouse, but there's no guarantee Dallas will be able to re-sign him; in fact, by rule they aren't allowed to for 30 days.

In the meantime, is it that hard to imagine bench-starved Cleveland diving in with the $4.1 million remaining on its midlevel exception, or the Pistons ($3.86 million) bringing him back to Motown to replace the struggling Jarvis Hayes? For that matter, what about the Spurs ($4.4 million) or Suns (full midlevel) breaking out the wampum just to spite their Western rivals? Keep in mind, too, that these salaries would be prorated for the rest of this year, lowering the luxury tax hit those teams would take.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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For sure. See my first sentiments I orginally posted on page 3. I think much like everybody else did with the Shaq trade we are too quick to assess the trade as being laughable. Teams that get the stars almost always get the better of these deals at least initially get the bump they are looking for.
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agreed. i think the mavs become better overall, but worse against us. that's why i like this trade. kidd means nash can be hidden on kidd rather than exposed on devin harris. also, they lost 6 fouls on shaq and stack usually kills us.

if they get stack back, that sucks. but is stack really willing to wait 30 days/games to come back? that would surprise me.
 

Griffin

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News Flash! Kidd will be a Maverick in a new, reconfigured trade:


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3250819
So the new deal is:

Devin Harris
DeSagana Diop
Maurice Ager
Trenton Hassell
Keith Van Horn
2 first round picks
Cash

for

Jason Kidd
Malik Allen

Van Horn will be signed for $4M just to make the deal work. He hasn't played since 2006. I hope he donates that money to charity or something :)
 

BeeBeard

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So the new deal is:

Devin Harris
DeSagana Diop
Maurice Ager
Trenton Hassell
Keith Van Horn
2 first round picks
Cash

for

Jason Kidd
Malik Allen

Van Horn will be signed for $4M just to make the deal work. He hasn't played since 2006. I hope he donates that money to charity or something :)

He'll donate it to the Keith Van Horn Memorial Fund, a very specific charity dedicated exclusively to improving the lifestyle of Keith Van Horn. ;)

The most glaring difference is the substitution of Hassell and the "rights" to Van Horn instead of Stackhouse and Devean George. When you consider that Stackhouse was coming back to Dallas anyway, and Devean George is...Devean George, it's hard to see how this trade isn't a little worse for Dallas than the first one.

edit: Wanted to add that Hassell had trouble scoring 9 points in 32 minutes on a terrible Minnesota team, so he's not exactly a big loss. And it's not like Diop gets any more minutes now in Avery Johnson's system than he was getting. Hmm...I think this deal still makes Dallas a team everybody wants to watch and nobody wants to play. :(
 
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